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LilyM
Guest
Indeed. Aren’t you here yourself, P101, at heart because you’re not content to leave us to our (in your view mistaken) beliefs - and I wonder whose beliefs you’d prefer we adopt if not yours?
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Huguenot
Guest
And I remember a discussion we had a loooooooooooong time ago, about the attitude of some Protestants who think the pope is the antichrist and so on ; I told you it shocked me too , but what you say about Protestants here also shocks me …
I don’t really see a difference between what you say about us and the position of some Protestants that say that Catholics can’t be Christians …
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Huguenot
Guest
I agree with you, Singingbeauty, but it’s fine to read some other posts too…Wow… Just wow…
But it is surprising to see quite a lot of Catholics on these threads complaining that “Protestants” ( in general ) don’t consider them as Christians ( unfortunately some Protestants DO say that … ) and write such things about us in general …
On a thread–I don’t remember which one–somebody wrote that we are closer to … Muslims than to Catholics, and that in spite of that we claim to be Christians !!!
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Huguenot
Guest
Thanks Guanophore !Well, you opinion is in no way humble! In fact, you are blatantly contradicting what your own catechism teaches! The HS does work good in these ecclesiastical communities, so you have basically called the HS an abomination!
This is true, but scripture says that the weight and the measure is what is abominable (method), not the persons using it. Most Protestants don’t even know what they are Protesting, and should not be held guilty for the sins of their ancestors.
P
Protestant101
Guest
So you do admit to the fact that the real purpose behind Catholic “Ecumenism” is to gain submissions to the Pope, and to Catholic doctrine?
You will have a fine time explaining this to the Jewish faith that your church is trying to “reach out” to, and The ADL will have a field day with that. Evangelicals have also gotten into hot water for calling for the “conversion of Jews;” but, in essence, both Catholics and Evangelicals would be happy with any kind of submission to the Pope, and to Catholic doctrine. That is nothing to do with “unity,” you need to look up the two words, unity, and submission, and see the difference.
The Catholic Church needs to be much more upfront with the world and say Everything they really mean when they talk about “unity” and “ecumenism.”
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Huguenot
Guest
??? I’m Evangelical and I don’t understand what you mean when you say we would “be happy with any kind of submission to the Pope, and to Catholic doctrine” ???
We don’t “submit” to the Pope ( even if we don’t believe he’s the Antichrist … )
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kim3260
Guest
Joey,
At least on a computer you can change threads, log off whatever. I have lived with “Predator Protestants” all my life. I can’t go to work, food store, my childrens school, in fact my own school as a little girl, without someone trying to lure me away from my Catholic Faith.
Now that said, I have encountered many wonderful, kind-hearted Protestants in my life who respect my Religion. They have help in times of need and I have been there for them.
I have learned to turn a deaf ear to “troublemakers” because to engage in a debate with them over and over is like running up a hill with a 250lb weight on your foot, it is impossible to speak to a closed mind
I read a lot of posts and there are three different type of posters of a different Faith that comes to boards like this,
- The Protestant who is truly thinking about converting
- The Protestant who is very chartiable who is just interested in learning about the Catholic Religion and will ask honest question ons on beliefs they find hard to understand.
- The Protestant who is here just to fight about every single Teaching of the Church and then demeans every Catholic poster they encounter.
After a post or two you can tell the difference between 2 and 3
R
Righteousone
Guest
Why is it that Protestants are more concerned with the Catholic church than their own versions?? I’d be more worried about your own church…
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JoeyWarren
Guest
You are speaking to the choir. I know that, you know that. The average Cradle Catholic bloke does not. Your comment is good in theory for those of us who would actually pick up the CCC and actually read it. Catholic Answers is not a representation of the Real World Catholics. Those of us here represent an iota of a fraction of properly catechized Catholics. Properly catechized Catholics represent maybe at best 1% of all Catholics.
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
I agree.
So have I.
** Naive and/or Ignorant Catholics will fall prey to these ‘troublemakers’. That is danger I am speaking out against.**I have learned to turn a deaf ear to “troublemakers” because to engage in a debate with them over and over is like running up a hill with a 250lb weight on your foot, it is impossible to speak to a closed mind
Again the Naive and/or Ignorant Catholic that comes to this forum and experiences #3. Sometimes #3 comes under the guise of #2…the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothingI read a lot of posts and there are three different type of posters of a different Faith that comes to boards like this,
- The Protestant who is truly thinking about converting
- The Protestant who is very chartiable who is just interested in learning about the Catholic Religion and will ask honest question ons on beliefs they find hard to understand.
- The Protestant who is here just to fight about every single Teaching of the Church and then demeans every Catholic poster they encounter.
After a post or two you can tell the difference between 2 and 3
So when I speak on this thread, I am addressing the naive and/or ignorant Catholic for what I consider IMHO for thier own good. Some parts of Protestantism looks good on the surface but once you delve into the interior of Protestantism ( getting past the sheep’s clothing ) you will ultimately find the wolf. On the other hand the Naive and/or Ignorant will never find the wolf before the wolf devours them.
So how do you actually protect these Naives and Ignorants?
R
reteeks21
Guest
So the heart of protestantism, and protestants, is evil? It only has evil and devious intentions? Are we like the roaring lion looking to devour?
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JoeyWarren
Guest
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reteeks21
Guest
I guess that depends who you are asking, or rather, the one who used the characterization in the first place.
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manualman
Guest
Define the heart of protestantism and THEN we can answer the question. If it is the hearts of the people who make it up, then the answer is certainly NOT inherently evil. (Good, but fallen like the rest of us!)
Protestant101, you still see sinister intentions where there are none. Catholicism WILL always have a strained relationship with Judaism because we have fundamentally irreconcilable differences in belief. We cannot give up the desire to see them accept Jesus as the savior of all and the son of God. It is inherent to who we are. That said, there need not be hostilty about it all the time. I certainly agree with your assertion about the ADL getting upset. They ARE upset with the Holy Father right now over this very issue (specifically a Holy Week prayer for their conversion). The ADL needs to understand that we cannot and will not accept Nominalism as an acceptable belief (all religions being equally valid, even if mutually contradictory). What we CAN do is still respect one another as PERSONS with inherent rights. That’e entirely possible even if we disagree on doctrine.
Same goes for protestants. Of COURSE we’d love to see you all come home to Rome. But through the work of the Holy Spirit, not coercion or some kind of power trip.
Protestant101, you still see sinister intentions where there are none. Catholicism WILL always have a strained relationship with Judaism because we have fundamentally irreconcilable differences in belief. We cannot give up the desire to see them accept Jesus as the savior of all and the son of God. It is inherent to who we are. That said, there need not be hostilty about it all the time. I certainly agree with your assertion about the ADL getting upset. They ARE upset with the Holy Father right now over this very issue (specifically a Holy Week prayer for their conversion). The ADL needs to understand that we cannot and will not accept Nominalism as an acceptable belief (all religions being equally valid, even if mutually contradictory). What we CAN do is still respect one another as PERSONS with inherent rights. That’e entirely possible even if we disagree on doctrine.
Same goes for protestants. Of COURSE we’d love to see you all come home to Rome. But through the work of the Holy Spirit, not coercion or some kind of power trip.
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
**I personally accept the good in protestantism, but with a very cautious and suspecting mind. **
I only concerns is protecting those Catholics that lurk that are not cautious and suspecting.
I only concerns is protecting those Catholics that lurk that are not cautious and suspecting.
J
JoeyWarren
Guest
Most Protestants will seek to find the worst in a post. I am apt to do the same as well. But that is a fault I acknowledge that I have. Do you recognize your own fault?
If I appear to a viral anti-protestant, then I have good reason. I joined the RCC in 1998, but only because of my wife. When JP2 died, my Protestant Pastor/Bishop Church of God brother made this statement on my blog:
I HOPE THE POPE GOT SAVED BEFORE HE DIED
That one statement led me into a thorough search of Scripture, Ancient Judaic Culture, and the Early Church.
I am a computer Programmer/Analyst by profession.
I can only think within the boundaries of reason and logic. Protestantism is illogical and void of reason.
A true “Plain Literal” reading of the Bible will yield Catholicism. And when you delve into the underlying Greek of the New Testament to understand the logical context, then it straight up CATHOLIC in your face.
Two examples: Luke 1:28 'Highly Favored Daughter" vs “Full of Grace”. Disecting the Greek word kecharitomene makes “Full of Grace” fall short of the mark. “Highly Favored” becomes nothing IMHO but a man(name removed by moderator)ulation by Satan. Romans 3:28 “ALL have sinned argument” The word all is rendered by 3 different Greek words: Pas, Hapas, and Holos. A thorough and honest study of the Greek will render that Hapas is the only word that means “ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION” Hapas is not used in Romans 3:28. Most of the more honest Protestant Greek Scholars will readily tell you that pas very rarely means “EACH AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON OR ITEM” There are many verses where the usage of Pas (which is used in Romans 3:23) if it meant “ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION” would not be plausible.
You’ve seen the phrase: “If it ain’t the KJV, it ain’t the Bible”. My personal phrase would be “If it aint the Greek, it aint the Bible”
So in closing. There is only one absolute truth that God has given us. Who actually preaches this one absolute truth? I can tell you with 100% confidence, not one single Protestant church.
Logic dictates if anyone part of a thing is false the whole thing is false.
Take if for what it is worth.
I will not repond anymore to this thread, since it is dangerous and destructive to our Catholic brethren that are teetering on the edge thru no fault of their own.
Good Day and God Bless all.
If I appear to a viral anti-protestant, then I have good reason. I joined the RCC in 1998, but only because of my wife. When JP2 died, my Protestant Pastor/Bishop Church of God brother made this statement on my blog:
I HOPE THE POPE GOT SAVED BEFORE HE DIED
That one statement led me into a thorough search of Scripture, Ancient Judaic Culture, and the Early Church.
I am a computer Programmer/Analyst by profession.
I can only think within the boundaries of reason and logic. Protestantism is illogical and void of reason.
A true “Plain Literal” reading of the Bible will yield Catholicism. And when you delve into the underlying Greek of the New Testament to understand the logical context, then it straight up CATHOLIC in your face.
Two examples: Luke 1:28 'Highly Favored Daughter" vs “Full of Grace”. Disecting the Greek word kecharitomene makes “Full of Grace” fall short of the mark. “Highly Favored” becomes nothing IMHO but a man(name removed by moderator)ulation by Satan. Romans 3:28 “ALL have sinned argument” The word all is rendered by 3 different Greek words: Pas, Hapas, and Holos. A thorough and honest study of the Greek will render that Hapas is the only word that means “ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION” Hapas is not used in Romans 3:28. Most of the more honest Protestant Greek Scholars will readily tell you that pas very rarely means “EACH AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON OR ITEM” There are many verses where the usage of Pas (which is used in Romans 3:23) if it meant “ALL WITHOUT EXCEPTION” would not be plausible.
You’ve seen the phrase: “If it ain’t the KJV, it ain’t the Bible”. My personal phrase would be “If it aint the Greek, it aint the Bible”
So in closing. There is only one absolute truth that God has given us. Who actually preaches this one absolute truth? I can tell you with 100% confidence, not one single Protestant church.
Logic dictates if anyone part of a thing is false the whole thing is false.
Take if for what it is worth.
I will not repond anymore to this thread, since it is dangerous and destructive to our Catholic brethren that are teetering on the edge thru no fault of their own.
Good Day and God Bless all.
D
donmaximuso27
Guest
Such terms like “submission to the Pope and Catholic Doctrine” are just anti-Catholic rhetoric and will not help your case. You need to look at the true meaning behind Catholic ecumenism. When you speak of submission to the Pope, what does that truly mean? It means that we follow the leadership of St. Peter, who was given authority over Christ’s one true church, the power to administer the sacraments, and the keys to the kingdom of heaven. When you say submit to Catholic doctrine, it is not some just blind allegiance to some cult, army, or government. It is one’s true faith in God and his one true church, Christ’s bride, who administers the sacraments that save souls. You need to consider the Eucharist, Reconciliation, Holy Orders, etc. to really know that “submission”, as you call it, is one’s closeness to God, and one’s soul conforming to God’s will. Why wouldn’t Catholics want all souls to “submit” to God’s only true church and to the amazing sacraments it has. Through the Eucharist we become closer to God then by any other method on this Earth. Christ called us to baptize all nations and to spread the Gospel. Well, the Catholic Church, as seen in Scripture, is in fact part of that great message.
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fhansen
Guest
Wolves and Protestants are NOT inherently evil-they are Gods’ creation. Protestantism, by virtue of being based on error, lies, and rebellion, could be said to be evil. But, as with all error and sin, the people who believe in it are sincere in their beliefs though sincerely wrong in areas of their beliefs. The reformers were right to desire reform as long as it was not reform of dogma-the deposit of faith-this is the one area God promised to keep free from error. As to the abuses which were in need of reform, Protestantism has proven that selfishness and abuse of power will continue to be a part of human history, as they’ve succumbed in those areas as well. But none of us as individuals are 100% right about anything and God can still use-and produce good from-human hearts who are turned towards Him even if their knowledge is less than perfect.
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Protestant101
Guest
Yes, you do. Every Sunday.??? I’m Evangelical and I don’t understand what you mean when you say we would “be happy with any kind of submission to the Pope, and to Catholic doctrine” ???
We don’t “submit” to the Pope ( even if we don’t believe he’s the Antichrist … )
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