When you’re sitting in your church service, and the pastor is praying, and you’re closing your eyes and going along with him, do you feel that he’s taking away from God? Or getting in YOUR way of communicating with God? Or when someone is saying grace before a meal for the whole family, are the rest of the members of that family supposed to ignore them and not consider that prayer being a thankyou for the food for them as well?
Rather I think they deny it because it really isn’t true.
Help me understand you here. When you say “it takes place” are you saying that you personally know of people who believe that Mary is a god and they worship her as such? Is it possible, however remotely, that you are misinterpreting what you’re seeing or hearing about; that what you personally and subjectively consider worship really isn’t?
**A person does not need to put the label “god” on a thing to worship it. Worship is an attitude, a feeling, a response. Whether we call the object “god” or not, we can worship anything. It is evident in the way we think, feel and treat it, in our actions toward it, in our devotion to it and its causes.
Most of us have had experiences where we realized we were giving more homage to a thing than was due, that it was receiving too much priority in our lives, and that the things which should properly receive our attention were being pushed out.
We all need checks and balances to call us back to the proper priorities. I think when it comes to devotion to the Virgin Mary, these checks and balances are sorely missing. Many people become so devoted to Mary and working with/through Mary that the proper focus on the Godhead is compromised. And because the accepted idea among the faithful is that there is hardly any way to honor Mary enough, people do slip into worship, whether they name her “god:” or not.
You suggest that I am claiming I can read people’s hearts. I am going by what they show in their actions, words and manner, what they show me of their own hearts.
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I’m not so sure about that. On what do you base your statement that it’s common?
**Living among Catholics, attending Catholic school and being part of a Catholic community for many years.
These are good people, I love them, they are my friends and family. I am not trying to paint them as wackos, but a great deal of Marian devotion disconcerts me. Much of it is rife with superstition (miraculous medal diaper pins!, burying people’s names at Fatima) and it has a tendency to go overboard. We had speakers come to school to talk to us about Mary with some regularity, tears streaming down their face, mumbling over the goodness of the Blessed Mother while others shared testimony of the miracles she had wrought in their lives. Imploring us to devote our lives to her, to take a holy card or a medal and say a certain prayer a certain number of times a day, etc. etc. I’m sure you know the sort of thing I am talking about.
If not, visit a Catholic book store in real life or online. The whole thing has gotten quite out of hand, and that is not even touching on those who want Mary named coredemptrix.
**
You, at one point in your life, sincerely believed that Mary was a god? If, as you stated, the Church doesn’t not teach Mary worship how is it that you found yourself worshipping her?
**No, actually, I never had a special devotion to Mary, but I participated in rituals (such as May crowning, and other such that Marian groups led at our church or school) No one needs to teach a person to worship a thing, worship is a response. Mary is placed so highly, and so much is attributed to her, that people who form a devotion to her, and a close relationship sometimes tend to drift into worship. It is understandable, but troublesome.
the church warns people away from many things because it is understood that people have a tendency to respond this way, but there are no such limits when it comes to Mary.
**
In Christ,
Nancy
I understand where you are coming from. But the simple truth is that the Church doesn’t teach Mary worship. Protestantism suffers due to the multiple and contrasting interpretations of Scripture and the rejection of Sacred Tradition. The Catholic Church has the benefit of correcting those who are mislead. If an individual within the Catholic Church over-emphasizes Marian devotion, they should be gently corrected by proper Church teaching. I hope your reason for leaving the Catholic Church was not because some people within the Church were over-emphasizing their devotion to “The Mother of God”. The following excerpt from an article on Catholic Answers is worth looking at:
Hi scm!
I’m curious where you got the impression that anyone HAD to have a statue of Mary in order to talk to God?? What do statues of Mary have to do with talking to God at all??
You know, I was almost about to pass this reply just as I have the others because, quite frankly, it was making sense. But then I thought about WHY I had issue with this in the first place. Yes, I do go to friends to help me pray for stuff. But that analogy lacks a VERY important quality. When I go to my friend there aren’t a billion other people trying to get at her at the same time and expect her to hear them even if they are in another country or just another city. And you would think this was ridiculous if I sat at home and, even though she wasn’t in the room with me, you would think it quite weird for me sit in my room and expect her to hear me and pray with me even though I never spoke to her face to face. Since we all agree that Mary is NOT God or even God-Like it, to me, is like we are sitting at home expecting our friend to hear us even though it’s not humanly possible. And you might bring up the argument of praying to the saints and how the bible mentions it in Revelation and all that but the bible also calls all christians, saints, so those christians here on earth would be the saints we are to go to to pray with and for us.
I guarantee that St. Louis de Montfort did not worship Mary, you misunderstand him (and it is understandable), he speaks in a devotional tongue, but if you read all of his works in context, you will find that St. Louis condemns Marian worship (I know I have read nearly all of his books as well as commentaries on them…True Devotion is too much for you to swallow for you right now, so don’t worry about it.)
So you think that Mary can only hear one request at a time or that she must be in the room with you to hear you? Odd concept to me. Have you never gone to a grave and talked to your dead ancestors or friends? What if you brother in another city was also talking to them, do you think they would hear only one of you? You are right in that it is not humanly possible, however Mary and the Saints in heaven are no longer human(as we know it). They are perfect souls with God.
Actually, and this statement has been called idiotic so please refrain from calling it that as I do NOT do that to any of your beliefs, I don’t believe that anyone except God and Jesus in Heaven can hear anything that is going on here on earth. She has reached the end of the race and is enjoying her Just Reward. Yes, I have gone to a grave of a loved one and spoken BUT this was for ME I don’t believe that they could hear me.
Catholic Answers has a nice article about this:
A small section of the article that addresses Singinbeauty’s disbelief that the saints can actually hear our prayers:
In Heaven they are outside of space and time. God is the creator of the universe, and His domain doesn’t have space, OR time. Thus, there is no problem of people ‘trying to get to them all the time’.
In fact, it goes against the very idea of Christianity itself. Christianity is about loving each other… it is the second great commandment, to love one another as you love yourself, and moreso as Jesus has loved you. All of Christ’s commandments are summed up in the two commandments, to love God, and to love one another. Remember Lazarus and the rich man? Lazarus was outside of the mansion, in need. But the rich mand didn’t care about Lazarus, he just cared about his life in the mansion. If those in Heaven are just enjoying their rewards and aren’t paying attention to those still on earth, they are just as bad as the rich man.Thanks E.E.N.S.
