Catholics accused of worshiping Mary

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Mickey:
Bravo! Catholics don’t violate any commandment either because we honor “The Mother of God” and the saints–not worship them. Same as you! We have much in common! 🙂
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Consecration to Mary

My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen.

This was the text taken from the link above:

catholic-forum.com/saints/pray0505.htm

Semantics aside, I wonder how God would view this “Consecration.” Sure, any Catholic can say that they don’t “worship” Mary and the Saints, but they will use plenty of other strong words to describe what they do feel is permissible to do, such as “consecration,” “Adoration,” “Devotion,” “Reverence,” etc.

That’s fine to convince fellow Catholics, Protestants and the like. But God’s view of all of this is what’s most important and semantics will not fool Him in the least. He knows your heart. He knows mine. I just hope for the sake of all Catholics that this extensive “adoration” of Mary won’t be viewed by the Almighty as something like misplaced adoration.

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”
Isaiah 42:8 (KJV)​
 
I want to apologize to everyone here. I have had a tough week. My cousin’s funeral was yesterday and I was not able to attend. I think I am a bit emotional because of this. I should not have gotten so angry so, On my Way, even though I still do not appreciate how you answered my post I am sorry I got so frustrated. Those are your opinions and you are entitled to them. Just please, be more careful with the words you choose.
(Edited by moderator)
It’s all about perception and on a message board it’s hard to discern where you are coming from.

Again I apologize to everyone… 😦
 
On my way:
I understand the difference between honor and worship. I honor my TKD instructor and I worship God. Sorry if I made you think I was Protestant. 😃
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Not at all - I didn’t mean for my response to sound that way. 😉
 
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ChristianWAB:
Some assert that the Hail Mary comes directly from the Bible. Well, that’s half true. The second half is the part that comes under scrutiny. To get into the details, I’d probably need to start a new thread, but like I said, I can avoid prayers like the Hail Mary (and praying the Rosary) and stick to prayers that are directed at the Lord.

I’m not violating any Commandments and I have a clearer conscience. Mary will forever be honored in my heart as an obedient servant of God. The Saints will forever be honored in my heart for their very important contributions to Christianity. Catholics say that they don’t worship Mary or the Saints? Well, neither do I.
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The second part of the Hail Mary is this:

**Holy Mary, Mother of God- **Mary is the Mother of God, so this is simply her title.

**Pray for us sinners-**I think that this proves our point. We are asking Mary to pray for us, not praying to her.

Now and at the hour of our death- I don’t think that there is a more appropriate time for us to ask someone to pray for us. Do you?

As far as having a clearer conscious, you are not in any of our minds, so how do you know who has a clearer conscious?

Should Japense people not bow to the elderly or young men get down on one knee because a few mistaken souls could misinterprete what is happening?
 
There have been some wonderful answers on this thread, and I thank you all who have taken the time to respond. I’d like to add just one thing, if I may. In the second chapter of Luke’s Gospel, Mary says, “…all ages to come shall call me blessed.” That is what we do when we honor Mary as the Mother of God. In the same chapter, Elizabeth says to Mary, “But who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” It is very biblical to offer Mary the honor due to her, and when we refuse, we are not following Scripture!
Hope I didn’t add to anyone’s confusion!

Peace,
Linda
 
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Singinbeauty:
I want to apologize to everyone here. I have had a tough week. My cousin’s funeral was yesterday and I was not able to attend. I think I am a bit emotional because of this. I should not have gotten so angry so, On my Way, even though I still do not appreciate how you answered my post I am sorry I got so frustrated. Those are your opinions and you are entitled to them. Just please, be more careful with the words you choose. (Edited by mod) It’s all about perception and on a message board it’s hard to discern where you are coming from.

Again I apologize to everyone… 😦
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I am sorry about the misunderstanding.😦
 
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deb1:
Have you ever asked anyone for anything? Anything at all? I believe that you stated that you were married, therefore at one point you asked your wife to marry you. GUess what you prayed to her. The word pray only means to ask.
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Again, this is a semantics argument (please see my post on 68***;*** Page 1 on this thread)
 
ChristianWAB said:
Consecration to Mary

My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen.

This was the text taken from the link above:

catholic-forum.com/saints/pray0505.htm

Semantics aside, I wonder how God would view this “Consecration.” Sure, any Catholic can say that they don’t “worship” Mary and the Saints, but they will use plenty of other strong words to describe what they do feel is permissible to do, such as “consecration,” “Adoration,” “Devotion,” “Reverence,” etc.

That’s fine to convince fellow Catholics, Protestants and the like. But God’s view of all of this is what’s most important and semantics will not fool Him in the least. He knows your heart. He knows mine. I just hope for the sake of all Catholics that this extensive “adoration” of Mary won’t be viewed by the Almighty as something like misplaced adoration.

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”
Isaiah 42:8 (KJV)​
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I would actually agree with you. Some Catholics do indeed go way, completely overboard with Mary. I do feel they are in danger. That’s one reason that Vatican II essentially said, 'Hey! You there, the Catholics payng way too much attention to Mary: cut it out!" So yes, your concern is one even Catholics hold about our fellow Catholics. In fact, for all I know this consecration you cited may have been written by one of these types of folks. It may not be a prayer that the Church endorses. Consecrations to Mary, in fact, are more of a thing that have developed over the years privately, and not “officially.”

That being said, don’t worry about the flowery language the consecration you cited has. When people are talking to their girlfriends or boyfriends, and especially when they are getting married or whatnot, a lot of time they say things like “I give myself completely over to you; my mind, my body, my soul…” You get the point. But that doesn’t mean they are worshipping their spouses (although no doubt some folks do… shrug). It’s flowery and symbolic language intended to convey a certain point; it’s not all meant completely literally or without exception.

And when someone does consecrate themselves to Mary or something like that, what does she tell them to do?

“Do whatever He asks of you.”
 
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ChristianWAB:
But God’s view of all of this is what’s most important and semantics will not fool Him in the least. He knows your heart. He knows mine.
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Exactly.
And let us hope that your veneration of Jesus’ mother is genuine. He will not be fooled. The last thing we want to do is dishonor His mother.
 
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Singinbeauty:
Ok, I am praying right now that God gives me the right words to say because my blood is boiling right now. A little lesson when talking to others about their beliefs… when you call their beliefs idiotic you are calling THEM idiotic. It’s not that you said I did something stupid or idiotic you said that what I believed was idiotic.

Let me say this again… What we believe defines who we are. It is what touches us in our core, our soul. So when you say that my belief is idiotic you are cutting to my soul and I don’t appreciate it.

And yes, I highlighted your ONE comment because that is as far as I got. I didn’t read any further because when someone tells me my belief is idiotic I tend to not want to listen…
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1st let me say that no one here thinks anybody else here is an idiot. Maybe ‘On my way’ used a poor choice of words but as Catholics we believe that you are wrong. That does not imply anything about your mentality. You seem to believe that we are wrong, yet I don’t think you think any less of us for it. Edison tried over 1000 things before he got the light bulb right, so he was wrong 1000 times but he certainly was no idiot. We hope you will kept asking questions about your and our faith and when you find the truth we believe it will be the Catholic Church.
 
ChristianWAB said:
Consecration to Mary

My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen.

This was the text taken from the link above:

catholic-forum.com/saints/pray0505.htm

Semantics aside, I wonder how God would view this “Consecration.” Sure, any Catholic can say that they don’t “worship” Mary and the Saints, but they will use plenty of other strong words to describe what they do feel is permissible to do, such as “consecration,” “Adoration,” “Devotion,” “Reverence,” etc.

That’s fine to convince fellow Catholics, Protestants and the like. But God’s view of all of this is what’s most important and semantics will not fool Him in the least. He knows your heart. He knows mine. I just hope for the sake of all Catholics that this extensive “adoration” of Mary won’t be viewed by the Almighty as something like misplaced adoration.

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”
Isaiah 42:8 (KJV)​
Click to expand...

You should read all that comes with the consecration, and not just the consecration prayer itself (like try reading True Devotion)…all true Marian devotion is Christ centered and has Christ as it’s final end, lest it be false.

We are members of Christ’s body, so (in a mystical/spiritual way) we are born into His body through Mary. “This one and that one were born in her.” According to the explanation of some of the Fathers, the first man born of Mary is the God-man, Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ, the head of mankind, is born of her, the predestinate, who are members of this head, must also as a necessary consequence be born of her. One and the same mother does not give birth to the head without the members nor to the members without the head, for these would be monsters in the order of nature. In the order of grace likewise the head and the members are born of the same mother. If a member of the mystical body of Christ, that is, one of the predestinate, were born of a mother other than Mary who gave birth to the head, he would not be one of the predestinate, nor a member of Jesus Christ, but a monster in the order of grace.

So consecration to Mary is to closer unite us to Jesus; one would say the proper statement of consecration is “to Jesus through Mary,” she is not the last end…He is the alpha and the omega.
 
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ChristianWAB:
The word* “bear”* as a verb* alone*** can mean to support, to transport, to carry in the mind, to relate, to have a visible characteristic, to possess a quality, to conduct oneself a certain way, to assume responsibility for, to endure, to warrant, to offer witness and to give birth to a child.

Not to mention the fact that, as a noun, it can be defined as an omnivorous mammal with a coat of fur and a penchant for mauling campers, a certain type of stuffed animal or a gay male with either a beard, body hair, girth or some combination of the three.

Now, was that question an attempt by you to lure me into a semantics debate or is it that you really, truly, honestly can’t figure out that by “pray,” I’m talking about that thing you do when you want to say something to God?
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And therein lies the problem-you insist that “pray” can only be directed to God while we understand pray to include asking others to interceed for us. Since you wont accept this definition the debate will continue to go in circles.

Regardless of ones understanding of what “pray” means the Catholic Church is clear that the only one we Worship is God. Accordingly It appears you are the one playing the semantics game-insisting on using your defintion of “pray” and using that definition to bolster claims about Catholics that are simply not true.
 
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LindaS:
There have been some wonderful answers on this thread, and I thank you all who have taken the time to respond. I’d like to add just one thing, if I may. In the second chapter of Luke’s Gospel, Mary says, "…all ages to come shall call me blessed." That is what we do when we honor Mary as the Mother of God. In the same chapter, Elizabeth says to Mary, "But who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" It is very biblical to offer Mary the honor due to her, and when we refuse, we are not following Scripture!
Hope I didn’t add to anyone’s confusion!

Peace,
Linda
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Amen! 😃
 
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Lazerlike42:
That being said, don’t worry about the flowery language the consecration you cited has. When people are talking to their girlfriends or boyfriends, and especially when they are getting married or whatnot, a lot of time they say things like “I give myself completely over to you; my mind, my body, my soul…” You get the point. But that doesn’t mean they are worshipping their spouses (although no doubt some folks do… shrug). It’s flowery and symbolic language intended to convey a certain point; it’s not all meant completely literally or without exception.

And when someone does consecrate themselves to Mary or something like that, what does she tell them to do?

“Do whatever He asks of you.”
Click to expand...
 
ChristianWAB said:
Consecration to Mary

My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen.

This was the text taken from the link above:

catholic-forum.com/saints/pray0505.htm

Semantics aside, I wonder how God would view this “Consecration.” Sure, any Catholic can say that they don’t “worship” Mary and the Saints, but they will use plenty of other strong words to describe what they do feel is permissible to do, such as “consecration,” “Adoration,” “Devotion,” “Reverence,” etc.

That’s fine to convince fellow Catholics, Protestants and the like. But God’s view of all of this is what’s most important and semantics will not fool Him in the least. He knows your heart. He knows mine. I just hope for the sake of all Catholics that this extensive “adoration” of Mary won’t be viewed by the Almighty as something like misplaced adoration.

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”
Isaiah 42:8 (KJV)​
Click to expand...

Do you think it might be important to take into account the time, culture and genre in which this was written?

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
The incarnate Son of God came to us through Mary. And so it is proper that we can go through Mary to Jesus.
Jacob’s ladder became a reality! 🙂
 
My Queen and my Mother, I give myself entirely to you; and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve. Wherefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession. Amen.
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As I mentioned above, this sounds very similar to my wedding vows.

I wonder if CWAB thinks God will condem me because I am Consecrated to my wife, that I Adore her, that I am Devoted to her, the I Revere her.

All those nasty ‘worship’ words that can’t possibly be used in any other way :rolleyes: .

Hmmm?
 
E.E.N.S.:
You should read all that comes with the consecration, and not just the consecration prayer itself (like try reading True Devotion)…all true Marian devotion is Christ centered and has Christ as it’s final end, lest it be false.

We are members of Christ’s body, so (in a mystical/spiritual way) we are born into His body through Mary. “This one and that one were born in her.” According to the explanation of some of the Fathers, the first man born of Mary is the God-man, Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ, the head of mankind, is born of her, the predestinate, who are members of this head, must also as a necessary consequence be born of her. One and the same mother does not give birth to the head without the members nor to the members without the head, for these would be monsters in the order of nature. In the order of grace likewise the head and the members are born of the same mother. If a member of the mystical body of Christ, that is, one of the predestinate, were born of a mother other than Mary who gave birth to the head, he would not be one of the predestinate, nor a member of Jesus Christ, but a monster in the order of grace.

So consecration to Mary is to closer unite us to Jesus; one would say the proper statement of consecration is “to Jesus through Mary,” she is not the last end…He is the alpha and the omega.
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(I edited the underlined section…I had a MAJOR typo.)
 
In my view, Mary is a mirror reflecting us back to Christ. She is his mother and wants us to worship him not herself. If someone came into your house wouldn’t you be insulted if they did not respect your mom. What if your wife refused to talk to your mother because she thought that it took away from her love for you?

As far as the prayer that Christian Wab quoted, if you have ever read any literature from even the 1800’s there is a much more flowery, dramatic way of writing then we use now. I would guess that is the intent behind the language. I do not know the time period that the prayer was written but it is my guess that it is an older prayer. Please remember the Catholic church has a long history and some devotions are very old.
 
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