I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
Formally sufficient or Materially sufficient?
- Status
Q
QNDNNDQDCE
Guest
Not so! It may be sufficient for every good work, but that does not mean it is sufficient for salvation.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Secondly, St. Paul does not say that Scripture alone is sufficient for every good work, only that it is profitable to that end. Big difference.
K
kmcarl56
Guest
For all of you, Catholics and Protestants alike, I want to share my thoughts and experience with you.
I am a non-Catholic. I am a sinner. But I try to live by the commandments given to me in the Bible to the best of my ability.
I will worship no one other than God. I will not call anyone Father other than God.
I have been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and at that time, I promised to live by God’s commandments all the days of my life.
In August 2010, I was very very ill and in a coma. I died and went to Heaven. I was enveloped in the purest, whitest light one could ever imagine. I felt nothing but peace, love, and pure joy. I heard God’s voice tell me that it was not my time because He still has work for me to do. Then I saw my husband who told me that I had to go back, but that he would be there waiting for me.
I was in a coma for weeks, and doctors told my family several times that I would not make it. My heart stopped, my kidneys failed, and my breathing stopped–twice. The doctors were able to revive me, twice! I awoke after my brother-in-law (a Protestant) prayed over me. I did not remember anything else other than my experience, not what was wrong with me or why I was in ICU.
I made a video about my experience so that others will know that God is Real, Heaven is Real. I am determined now to make it my job to tell everyone I meet in person or online that they can be saved by the grace of God because Jesus died on the cross for their sins. I tell them that God is a forgiving and merciful God. Through belief, repentence, and faithfulness, they can be saved.
If you wish to watch it, here is the link: youtube.com/watch?v=DV_IeRlIWVU
I do not put a bunch of rules and regulations on them. I give them the Bible to read. I tell them to join a Bible-based church so that they can learn and grow in Christ.
I do not think I have to join the Catholic church in order to be saved because I believe that not one person on this earth has a right to judge me or tell me whether I am saved or not. That is my choice. I do not think Catholics are any more righteous than my other brothers and sisters in Christ. I do not judge them or feel any animosity toward them. I celebrate their efforts to bring people to God. We, as Christians, are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
I pray, I fast, and I thank the Lord every day for the many blessings He has bestowed upon me. I thank Him for the many miracles He has given me in my life. I pray for His forgiveness of my sins, and try not to repeat those sins. I am a sinner, and He knows this. He loves me anyway because He sent His only Son to teach us, to show us, and to die for us so that we all may have everlasting life with Him. Stay strong in your faith.
My dear friend, it is your undying faith in Him that you may be saved. Pray and ask God for forgiveness and your salvation. He is the only one who can grant it to you.
May God bless you and keep you in His loving arms today and for the rest of your life.
:extrahappy:
I am so happy and grateful to be a follower of Christ!
I am a non-Catholic. I am a sinner. But I try to live by the commandments given to me in the Bible to the best of my ability.
I will worship no one other than God. I will not call anyone Father other than God.
I have been baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and at that time, I promised to live by God’s commandments all the days of my life.
In August 2010, I was very very ill and in a coma. I died and went to Heaven. I was enveloped in the purest, whitest light one could ever imagine. I felt nothing but peace, love, and pure joy. I heard God’s voice tell me that it was not my time because He still has work for me to do. Then I saw my husband who told me that I had to go back, but that he would be there waiting for me.
I was in a coma for weeks, and doctors told my family several times that I would not make it. My heart stopped, my kidneys failed, and my breathing stopped–twice. The doctors were able to revive me, twice! I awoke after my brother-in-law (a Protestant) prayed over me. I did not remember anything else other than my experience, not what was wrong with me or why I was in ICU.
I made a video about my experience so that others will know that God is Real, Heaven is Real. I am determined now to make it my job to tell everyone I meet in person or online that they can be saved by the grace of God because Jesus died on the cross for their sins. I tell them that God is a forgiving and merciful God. Through belief, repentence, and faithfulness, they can be saved.
If you wish to watch it, here is the link: youtube.com/watch?v=DV_IeRlIWVU
I do not put a bunch of rules and regulations on them. I give them the Bible to read. I tell them to join a Bible-based church so that they can learn and grow in Christ.
I do not think I have to join the Catholic church in order to be saved because I believe that not one person on this earth has a right to judge me or tell me whether I am saved or not. That is my choice. I do not think Catholics are any more righteous than my other brothers and sisters in Christ. I do not judge them or feel any animosity toward them. I celebrate their efforts to bring people to God. We, as Christians, are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
I pray, I fast, and I thank the Lord every day for the many blessings He has bestowed upon me. I thank Him for the many miracles He has given me in my life. I pray for His forgiveness of my sins, and try not to repeat those sins. I am a sinner, and He knows this. He loves me anyway because He sent His only Son to teach us, to show us, and to die for us so that we all may have everlasting life with Him. Stay strong in your faith.
My dear friend, it is your undying faith in Him that you may be saved. Pray and ask God for forgiveness and your salvation. He is the only one who can grant it to you.
May God bless you and keep you in His loving arms today and for the rest of your life.
:extrahappy:
I am so happy and grateful to be a follower of Christ!
I
icamhif
Guest
Thank you, everyone, for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
I want this to be my last time in the thread, so do not expect a reply from me, in the future.
Peace
I want this to be my last time in the thread, so do not expect a reply from me, in the future.
Peace
J
Jon_S_1
Guest
I am curious what the definition of “Bible based church” is
Really that just means a church that bases it’s principles like your church right?
I mean I think the Mormons would claim they are Bible based. The cult groups, the JW etc… They all are “bible based”
Which is why we need the church Christ founded as a custodian is what the truth presented by the Bible really is.
K
kmcarl56
Guest
If this is so, then what about the thief who Jesus accepted into Heaven that very day?
S
SteveVH
Guest
What about him? He repented and believed moments before his death and Jesus rewarded him. What does this have to do with “Once Saved Always Saved”?
K
kmcarl56
Guest
Then we are all guilty of the same thing! You also do as the Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests say. You follow the Catechism which was written by men.
As far as I can see, we all try to do what the Bible says: Love Christ as we love ourselves, love our neighbors as we love ourselves, and love our enemies as we love ourselves. To me, that includes ALL people, not just a select few who think exactly as we do. Anyone can open the Bible to a passage, and take from that passage what applies to that person in his/her own life. I need no other instruction book than the Bible. I do listen to other, more scholarly people, to gain full understanding, but still the full application is up to me.
Go with God, my dear friends in Christ.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Yet here you are doing this, as well.
You follow the popes, cardinals and bishops of yore each and every time you quote from the New Testament, kmcarl.
For you defer to their authority to tell you what books belong in the NT and what books do not belong there.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Well, yes and no.
It is, of course, Christ who saves.
But we do not follow a Christ, our Head, without Christ, His Body, the Church.
To say that we don’t need a Church is to follow a disembodied Head. A Christ with no Body to reveal His Word.
Amen!
And it is because of a church, the Catholic Church, that you know these are the words of God.
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
Well, for one - he can’t type on a keyboard while you can.
P
PRmerger
Guest
I find this hard to understand. You do not recognize the male parent who sired you as your father? You do not give him father’s day cards?
Incidentally, in that same portion of Matthew it also says to call no man master or teacher. Do you not call anyone that, save the Teacher in heaven?
What about the part about calling no man Master? If you have a post-graduate degree, do you oppose people acknowledging you have a Master’s degree?
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
Praise be to God!
A follower of Christ:
Luke 10:16*“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
*
Christ said this to His disciples, who in turn made more disciples, who in turn were ordained Priests, Bishops, Popes.
“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
You said you are following, but are you hearing?
P
PRmerger
Guest
Did the Bible tell you that Hebrews was inspired? And 3 John? And the Gospel of Mark?
Since the Bible does not tell you what books belong in the Bible, you do need to follow the instructions of other people–Catholic people. Catholic bishops to be specific–to tell you what’s inspired.
If you are fallible, then the applications you make will be wrong at some point. For that is what fallible means: going to be in error at some point.
I
Isaiah45_9
Guest
It always amazes me the attitude of “I’ll listen to more scholarly people…” instead of Christ’s Church. How the individual wants to maintain its right to choose who is right and who is wrong… It is so… secular.
P
PRmerger
Guest
I know, right!
P
pablope
Guest
First…if you read the passages again…he had to accept his crucifixion as just punishment for his sins.
And when Jesus said Paradise…that did not necessarily mean heaven. Paradise to the Jews of that time meant Abraham’s bosom.
And do check out this icons…which depict St. Dismas, the good thief, on Abraham’s Bosom, which confirms early Church and Christian belief and teaching on what is meant by Paradise in context:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=725074
P
pablope
Guest
But KM…which scholarly people? How would you tell which one of these scholarly people is teaching error and which one is teaching the correct teaching?
Does the Bible judge or tell you which one to believe and which one to not believe?
I have another question for you. Here is the example from St. Paul:
Galatians 2:2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.
So…how does these scholarly people you listen to or read follow the example of st. Paul above?
C
Cathoholic
Guest
Rules and regulations?
kmcarl56 stated:
What about the people who deny all of the New Testament except Matthew? Is this acceptable to be a “Matthew onlyite”? What if they don’t believe ANTHING to be inspired of God?
Can we put rules on this?
Where did you get authority to let these things be overlooked? Where did you get authority to tell people these things should NOT be overlooked?
How do you know which books even belong in the Bible? Josh McDowell’s criteria? Where is THAT (McDowell’s criteria) in the Bible? Where is the list of books that belong in the Bible? Do you have a verse for them where they are listed?
Are these all mere “rules” and regulations made up or were certain men given God-given authority to oversee these things?
Who has the final God-given authority to interpret truth and correct who is in error?
Is it important to “obey” our leaders even to the point of them having some capacity to “watch over our souls”? Or is this an optional item?
HEBREWS 13:17 17 Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account.
I am very glad for your experience and all the wonderful emotions that come from it and I don’t want to deny any of it. But we need to use not just our hearts but ALSO our minds in loving the Lord our God (Luke 10:27 and Matthew 12:30).
Consider the following multiple choice question:
Q: Does ANYBODY AT ALL today have any authentic authority to teach and interpret Apostolic Teachings authoritatively and definitively? Who?
How would you answer the above question? Does anybody at all today have any authentic authority to teach and interpret Apostolic Teachings authoritatively and definitively? Who?
**A: **
a- Yes. It is I alone that has this authority (I am the final arbiter of interpreting truth).
b- Nobody has any authority to interpret and we are all left just wondering what truth is.
c- My preacher has this authority and has the final interpretation of truth.
d- Scholarly people have the final interpretation of truth.
e- There is no ABSOLUTE truth! I am ABSOLUTELY certain of this!
f- Jesus Christ true God and true Man, founded a Church to continue on earth what He (Jesus) built and sent the Apostles out: “as the Father has sent me, so now I send you”, and protects them in their official teachings for the benefit of mankind.
How would you answer this?
kmcarl56 stated:
kmcarl56. Why not “put a bunch or rules and regulations on them”? What if someone says Sura 9 (“Immunity” from part of the Koran) is now part of the Bible, are they right? What if someone says 2nd Nephi (from part of the Book of Mormon) is now part of the Bible. Are they right? Do you “put a bunch of rules” on this or is this OK?
What about the people who deny all of the New Testament except Matthew? Is this acceptable to be a “Matthew onlyite”? What if they don’t believe ANTHING to be inspired of God?
Can we put rules on this?
Where did you get authority to let these things be overlooked? Where did you get authority to tell people these things should NOT be overlooked?
How do you know which books even belong in the Bible? Josh McDowell’s criteria? Where is THAT (McDowell’s criteria) in the Bible? Where is the list of books that belong in the Bible? Do you have a verse for them where they are listed?
Are these all mere “rules” and regulations made up or were certain men given God-given authority to oversee these things?
Who has the final God-given authority to interpret truth and correct who is in error?
Is it important to “obey” our leaders even to the point of them having some capacity to “watch over our souls”? Or is this an optional item?
HEBREWS 13:17 17 Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account.
I am very glad for your experience and all the wonderful emotions that come from it and I don’t want to deny any of it. But we need to use not just our hearts but ALSO our minds in loving the Lord our God (Luke 10:27 and Matthew 12:30).
Consider the following multiple choice question:
Q: Does ANYBODY AT ALL today have any authentic authority to teach and interpret Apostolic Teachings authoritatively and definitively? Who?
How would you answer the above question? Does anybody at all today have any authentic authority to teach and interpret Apostolic Teachings authoritatively and definitively? Who?
**A: **
a- Yes. It is I alone that has this authority (I am the final arbiter of interpreting truth).
b- Nobody has any authority to interpret and we are all left just wondering what truth is.
c- My preacher has this authority and has the final interpretation of truth.
d- Scholarly people have the final interpretation of truth.
e- There is no ABSOLUTE truth! I am ABSOLUTELY certain of this!
f- Jesus Christ true God and true Man, founded a Church to continue on earth what He (Jesus) built and sent the Apostles out: “as the Father has sent me, so now I send you”, and protects them in their official teachings for the benefit of mankind.
How would you answer this?
A
adf417
Guest
To find the grossest extreme of these examples, look no further than the JW’s where they, at the time Christians, decided to re-write the bible based it on their interpretation and go all out to remove the deity of Christ.
Thank God for his church to keep “rules” in place so our personal interpretations are kept in check.
- Status