Catholics: Am I, as a Protestant, saved?

[PRmerger]

Are these men you accused of of listening to also the same men who wrote our Cathechism the same men who wrote the Bible?

Indeed, they are!

The Bible is a Catholic book, written by Catholics, for Catholics.

 

[rinnie]

No, please don’t insult my intelligence. I look to more scholarly theologeans (Christians with Phds and others who have studied the Bible extensively) who have a more non-denominational knowledge and viewpoint of the Truth of the Bible, and Christ’s purpose on earth.

I believe the Bible speaks to us all, since Christ died for us all. There have and always will be false prophets, those who distort the Truth, and heretics who falsify the Truth.

By reading the Bible and believing what it says, we can defend ourselves against them.

I do not believe in a church or a catechism as my protectors and savior. I believe in Christ as my Protector and Savior, and believe God’s written word, and I try my best to love and worship Him in all I do and say.

If you want to believe in everything the Catholic Church tells you to believe as written in the Catechism, that is your right. It is also my right not to.

[BIBLEDRB]

I have a cousin just like you. She also said the same thing. If you would have told me to keep obeying the Pope (the devil) and keep praying to those dead saints and worshipping the Blessed Mother I would have believed you were indeed her,

You seem very angry as was she. When I would ask her questions to defend what she said she would become very angry and even quit taking to me for weeks, etc.

She would continue to preach thing’s that went against the word of God and when I would call her on them she would say mean things.

Like for instance I would like to call you on something, and hope I am wrong and you are not like her.

Here is my question.

You claim by reading the bible and believing what it says you can defend yourself against them. Okay, here comes question l.

1. The bible says we must have the power of the Holy Spirit to even define scripture. Do you feel that you have that power, and the Pope does not and he is wrong?
2. In the bible Jesus says he and his Church are one. He even describes his relationship to the Church as a marriage. How can you believe in him, and yet reject his Church?
3. We do agree on one thing it is your right to reject the teaching’s of the Church. Jesus told us we have free will or accept his teaching or reject them.

But that is where you seem angry with us (as my cousin did also) because we have accepted the word of the bible and do indeed follow the teaching of the leaders and teachers of the Church.

 

[PRmerger]

I am so tired of arguing over dogma and tradition and catechism and such. None of that really matters to me.

Truth matters, kmcarl. And if dogma and tradition and catechisms don’t matter to you, then you will allow odious and hateful preaching to reign. (See Westboro Baptist Church/Rev. Fred Phelps)

Truth matters.

My teachers are Christ and His Apostles, my instructions from God are in the Bible,

Amen! But what are these instructions? Why are there tens of thousands of differing understandings of these instructions?

Does baptism save you? Or is it an ordinance? Should it be done in a river, by immersion, as an adult?

Does God want women to be ordained? Does God hate homosexuals? Does God want us to dismiss the epistles of St. Paul?

Those are all issues that folks who read the Bible present contrary opinions on.

That’s why we need to read the Bible through the lens of the Tradition which gave us the Bible.

my salvation is guaranteed by Him

No. Not guaranteed. That is the lie that the Evil One has duped millions of folks into believing.

, and His love, grace and mercy for me are endless.

Period.

Amen! This is very Catholic!

 

[PRmerger]

However, did you know that the Scriptures say that *we *can save? St. Paul says that he, himself, not Christ, saves folks.

Now, of course we know that when he says this he means that in union with the atoning death of Christ can he save.

Oh my goodness, where in the world did you get that? Never does he say that he saves, not Christ! He says that we all can and should save people by ministering to them by bringing the Good News of salvation through Christ.

I didn’t say that he saves, **not **Christ. What I indicated was that when he says that he saves us he was referring to himself, not Christ. It was a clarification of the pronoun antecedent.

But yes, he does say that he saves us (Paul, not Christ). And that’s the same way that the Church saves us.

If somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.—Romans 11:14

Attend to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in both tasks, for by doing so you will save both yourself and those who listen to you. "–1 Timothy 4:16

To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak.
I have become all things to all,** to save** at least some.-1 Cor 9:22

Here St. Paul is saying that he saves, we save, and, likewise, the Catholic Church saves.

 

[rinnie]

Truth matters, kmcarl. And if dogma and tradition and catechisms don’t matter to you, then you will allow odious and hateful preaching to reign. (See Westboro Baptist Church/Rev. Fred Phelps)

Truth matters.

Amen! But what are these instructions? Why are there tens of thousands of differing understandings of these instructions?

Does baptism save you? Or is it an ordinance? Should it be done in a river, by immersion, as an adult?

Does God want women to be ordained? Does God hate homosexuals? Does God want us to dismiss the epistles of St. Paul?

Those are all issues that folks who read the Bible present contrary opinions on.

That’s why we need to read the Bible through the lens of the Tradition which gave us the Bible.

No. Not guaranteed. That is the lie that the Evil One has duped millions of folks into believing.

Amen! This is very Catholic!

I kind have to agree with him on one thing, Our Salvation is guaranted by Christ. And it was given to us by him at our Baptism.

But like most guarantees it can be voided can we say. By our sin.

Yes Jesus gained for us our salvation, but we take it away by our sin,

But fortunately by the same Church so many people condemn, it is gained once again by the wonderful Sacraments given to us by Christ through his wonderful Church.

 

[PRmerger]

I kind have to agree with him on one thing, Our Salvation is guaranted by Christ.

I think that what you mean by guaranteed and what kmcarl meant by guaranteed is completely different.

She is of the position that there is nothing that we can do to lose our salvation, after we have accepted Christ as our savior.

You mean that once we are baptized, and continue in a state of grace, we are guaranteed our salvation.

Totally different.

 

[Andres224]

This would be my first post.
Some good stuff here. Just wanted to put down some thoughts. Hope it adds and helps some.
First of all a thought I had about the mass that we might all take for granted. The mass is an incredible form of worship to Our Lord and thank God for it. The thought I had was, do all you realize that when we participate in the mass we are participating in a line of masses going back to the last supper itself! Said everyday multiple times since then. An unbroken linage of prayer, praise and salvation to benefit the ones He loves, US!

When I look at it that way what a plan He had moving forward through time to us in the present day!

The Eucharist:
First of all read, John 6:41-69,we are all familiar with this scripture. Realize today that there are people that read this passage and are still walking away from it, Him. If Christ is faithful and He is, then we should take Him at his word and believe His words. Believing in His flesh and blood. I have no understanding why he wants us to do this except, He said it, the church as professes it and I believe.

I have great regard for our protestant brothers and sisters in Christ, Christ is truly with them. But the church is one body with Christ at its head, it is not a dismembered body fighting against itself, It is to be a unified body!

Read. 1 John 2:18-20 he speaks of many anti-christs. One way to look at this passage is to realize that if you are “not really of us” the church ,then you are against the church, against Christ’s body, an “anti-christ.” It reads like some were part of the church and left it. Maybe to start other churches?
Again I am not trying to call anyone an anti-christ just putting this into a certain perceptive.

I just want to jump in, this seemed like a good thread. Last thought if you are struggling with the Eucharist ask the Father to help your unbelief, no one comes to Him unless the Fathers becons.

 

[PRmerger]

This would be my first post.
Some good stuff here. Just wanted to put down some thoughts. Hope it adds and helps some.
First of all a thought I had about the mass that we might all take for granted. The mass is an incredible form of worship to Our Lord and thank God for it. The thought I had was, do all you realize that when we participate in the mass we are participating in a line of masses going back to the last supper itself! Said everyday multiple times since then. An unbroken linage of prayer, praise and salvation to benefit the ones He loves, US!

When I look at it that way what a plan He had moving forward through time to us in the present day!

The Eucharist:
First of all read, John 6:41-69,we are all familiar with this scripture. Realize today that there are people that read this passage and are still walking away from it, Him. If Christ is faithful and He is, then we should take Him at his word and believe His words. Believing in His flesh and blood. I have no understanding why he wants us to do this except, He said it, the church as professes it and I believe.

I have great regard for our protestant brothers and sisters in Christ, Christ is truly with them. But the church is one body with Christ at its head, it is not a dismembered body fighting against itself, It is to be a unified body!

Read. 1 John 2:18-20 he speaks of many anti-christs. One way to look at this passage is to realize that if you are “not really of us” the church ,then you are against the church, against Christ’s body, an “anti-christ.” It reads like some were part of the church and left it. Maybe to start other churches?
Again I am not trying to call anyone an anti-christ just putting this into a certain perceptive.

I just want to jump in, this seemed like a good thread. Last thought if you are struggling with the Eucharist ask the Father to help your unbelief, no one comes to Him unless the Fathers becons.

Welcome to the CAFs, Andres! Good thoughts you’ve shared here!

 

[Porknpie]

…“His Body, the Church” (not Catholic at that time)

Actually the Church Christ himself established was called Catholic even before 110ad. It’s important to know that St Ignatius was a disciple of St. John the Apostle.

“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

That’s not the kind of church I want to be a member of or follow in its’ beliefs. I don’t want a church whose leaders tell me that. I want a church that accepts me as I am, as a fellow Christian, a sister in Christ who only wants to serve Him.

is it not best to conform ourselves to the teachings of Christ, visible in the faith and morals of the Church he established rather than finding a church that conforms to our own man made beliefs?

I want a church that doesn’t tell me that I have to pray to Mary for Jesus to hear my prayers.

the Catholic Church doesn’t say that you have to pray to Mary. But don’t you want her to pray for you? What Son wouldn’t listen to his Mother?

I want a church that points to the Bible for answers, not another book called the Catechism.

what came first, the Catholic Church or the bible? The bible is a Catholic Book, written by for and about the Catholic Church, compiled so that the Church could have a universal set of readings for Mass and for teaching and instruction. The 73 books were approved by the Church at the Synod of Hippo in 393 and at the Synod of Carthage in 397ad.

All I get from scripture is that Jesus loves me and all people with all His heart, mind and soul. I get from scripture that we are to love Him as he loves the Church (that’s us). I get from scripture that we are to love our neighbors and our enemies as we love ourselves.

yes Christ forgives but he says go and sin no more. By continuing to remain in sin, we reject his love. As Catholics we continually go back and ask for forgiveness and Christ does so through his Priests. We continually strive to sin no more as Christ himself instructs us…

 

[Andres224]

Actually the Church Christ himself established was called Catholic even before 110ad. It’s important to know that St Ignatius was a disciple of St. John the Apostle.

“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

Porknie,
I also thought there was a mention of the “Catholic Church” a little earlier in a letter from Barnabas, not the Barnabas of the bible. I read some where that the word Catholic came to use because there were other off shoots of Christianity forming. So to distinguish itself the church started to refer to itself as Catholic.

If the pope and his authority is real then the Catholic Church is real. We all know the scripture about Peter being the rock upon which Christ would build his church and Christ giving him keys. Read Is 22:15-25, then read Matt 16:18-25 again and see what is happening.
When you read it remember that the apostles were Jewish and would know this scripture, because of this they would know what exactly Jesus was doing.
The new is the fulfillment of the old, I love that.

 

[peace2u2]

If this is so, then what about the thief who Jesus accepted into Heaven that very day?

One day is like a thousand for the Lord. Oh and Scripture says so.

Psalm 90:4
A thousand years in your eyes are merely a day gone by,

2 Peter 3:8
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day.

 

[rinnie]

I think that what you mean by guaranteed and what kmcarl meant by guaranteed is completely different.

She is of the position that there is nothing that we can do to lose our salvation, after we have accepted Christ as our savior.

You mean that once we are baptized, and continue in a state of grace, we are guaranteed our salvation.

Totally different.

Thats exactly what I meant. But was trying to drive home the point that just because something is true at that second, it can become false later!

 

[cath4alltime]

Catholics don’t believe in being saved or not saved per se, as I’m coming to understand at least some Protestant faiths do. It depends on what you do: if you commit some mortal sin, then no–you won’t go to heaven, no matter what your beliefs are.

Yes and No, For one to commit a mortal sin there are certain criteria that must be met first which are:

1. 
   *]Its subject must be a grave (or serious) matter.
   *]It must be committed with full knowledge, both of the sin and of the gravity of the offense
   *]It must be committed with deliberate and complete consent, enough for it to have been a personal decision to commit the sin.
   
   So it is possible for someone to commit what we would consider a mortal sin and for them it is not a mortal sin. For instance some may not know number 2 in the above list
   

   Even as a child in those long ago pre-Vatican II days I was never taught that Protestants wouldn’t go to heaven. As I recall (and I was a kid, so my understanding might have been pretty basic) you needed to believe in Jesus, lead a holy life and avoid sin. As Pope Francis now explains it, the entire human race is saved because of Jesus’s sacrifice, and it doesn’t matter if someone believes in Jesus or not for Jesus’s sacrifice to be of benefit.

   Pope Francis would not teach the heresy of universalism. One still must accpt Christ or reject Him, now for those who never heard God deals with those people but if ones knows of Christ than one must respond either in the affirmative or negative.
   

   As I understand it, a person is either saved or not saved, and what they do doesn’t matter. But that doesn’t sound right. Am I close? It doesn’t make sense to think that someone who was saved could go murder someone and still be saved. Or is that point that, someone who was saved wouldn’t do that? Also, is it true that Protestants don’t pray for people who’ve died? Is that all Protestant religions, or is it a common believe among them?

   Some Protestants do believe in Once saved always saved or Eternal Security but it is not over all Protestantism and those that believe in Eternal Security do not believe you can do anything like murder someone, they believe if a person did that then they were not saved to begin with and they were and were just pretending. Most Protestants do believe one can lose their salvation just as Catholics do.