Catholics and free will

  • Thread starter Thread starter wkj_123
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
God doesn’t need to create humans but He did.

I think He is always present or around but we don’t feel it, neglect or ignore Him.
 
That’s a good point. So much pain and misery, not to mention people suffering eternity in hell, and none of it needed to happen. A lot to think about.
 
Everything has effect and consequence.

If there is hell, think also about the heavenly kingdom whereby the repentance find their eternal bliss with God

God loves us so much that even if one such person exists, it still is worth saving for Him and worth creating humanity with the privilege of freewill.
 
That line of thinking doesn’t bother you? Many have to suffer needlessly in hell but it’s ok it had to happen so some people can be happy in heaven?
 
wkj_123 said:
That line of thinking doesn’t bother you? Many have to suffer needlessly in hell but it’s ok it had to happen so some people can be happy in heaven?
Click to expand...
Why are you surprised? Didn’t you know that the gates of hell are locked from the inside? That there is a very long line of people, banging on the locked doors, demanding admittance? They want to be burned in the eternal flames, they crave for the worms gnawing on their entrails… they choose to be tortured there for all eternity. 🙂 Hopefully there will be a nice documentary to show the details, so we can make a really informed decision to choose between heaven an hell.

In the meantime I suggest you read the book by the Rev John Furniss (what an appropriate name!) and titled: The Sight of Hell ( available here: Fr. John Furniss - The Sight of Hell ). Especially the approbation, which says:

“I have carefully read over this Little Volume for Children and have found nothing whatsoever in it contrary to the doctrine of Holy Faith; but, on the contrary, a great deal to charm, instruct and edify our youthful classes, for whose benefit it has been written.” by William Meagher, Vicar General, Dublin, December 14, 1855.
 
Read Sophia’s post. They wanted it (hell) as how those who want heaven,

As I said, it is their choice, thus freewill. Nobody is forced to either one. There is a lifetime to make one choice, whichever it is. The information to either one is not hidden but made known to everybody.

Do not say needlessly suffer - for a person who wants it.
 
But surely as a human being who knows what pain feels like you can’t believe people would want hell? I mean really. Do you think that people who reject your God in this life do so thinking that I know I’m gonna burn forever but oh well that’s what I want?
 
wkj_123 said:
But surely as a human being who knows what pain feels like you can’t believe people would want hell? I mean really. Do you think that people who reject your God in this life do so thinking that I know I’m gonna burn forever but oh well that’s what I want?
Click to expand...
I answer because you ask.

There are millions of people who knowingly with good knowledge who reject God. There are millions who choose Satan. They worship Satan. They live lives according to the teaching of Satan. Maybe Satan tells them that his kind of life is enjoyable and fun. And people believe him. We hear that all the time.

It is their choice, you see. It not an accident that they do so,

From my perspective, hell is not what I want because God is not there. I want to be with my God. Where He is, there I would want to be. God has made a way for those who choose Him and want to be with Him.

What are you complaining about. You make your choice accordingly. It is all up to you.
 
Last edited:
wkj_123 said:
But surely as a human being who knows what pain feels like you can’t believe people would want hell? I mean really. Do you think that people who reject your God in this life do so thinking that I know I’m gonna burn forever but oh well that’s what I want?
Click to expand...
Don’t take my previous post seriously. 😉 It was written FACETIOUSLY. No one has been in hell and brought back a documentary. The idea that people “know” what eternal damnation is, and choose it with open eyes is total nonsense. Using a temporal analogy: people do not “choose” to go to jail. They choose to perform acts, which MIGHT or might not get them arrested and convicted. But they always believe that they will escape scot free. No one chooses to go to jail. (One exception, if someone is hungry and freezing, they MIGHT volitionally commit a minor act to get to jail, where there is free health care, free food and reasonable quarters of accommodation. And from where they will be released when their sentence runs out.)

Of course some believers do believe in Satan. Of course none of them would worship it. But no unbeliever accepts the story about Satan as real. As such they are unable to “worship” Satan. It is as ridiculous as saying that some people “worship” the Easter Bunny. So only believers can choose to go to hell - but they would not. Obviously.
 
The truth is that I would very much love to speak to a rational apologist, who has the necessary knowledge to discuss the “problem of evil” and the “problem of hell”. So far I have not met one, and I have very little hope to meet one.
 
Sophia said:
Using a temporal analogy: people do not “choose” to go to jail. They choose to perform acts, which MIGHT or might not get them arrested and convicted. But they always believe that they will escape scot free. No one chooses to go to jail.
Click to expand...
This is a good analogy.

When people say “folks freely choose hell”, please remember your analogy, and recognize that what they’re saying is shorthand for “folks freely choose courses of action for which the consequence is eternal damnation.”

Glad we could clear that up for you. Sorry it wasn’t obvious from the beginning. :roll_eyes:
 
Well thankfully since you have to fully know that something is a sin, and since you can’t fully know God. (You know the whole faith thing) then no one can be in hell I guess.
 
How do you know Gods will? How did you pick which God’s will? When you selected that God, how did you know which version/denomination of God’s will to follow? When you picked the version/denomination of God’s will how did you know who’s interpretation of the version/denomination of the gods will to follow? Honest question.
 
We are created by God to know Him, love Him and serve Him. The foundation of our very existence. God’s will, as expressed by His Son is that we:
  1. Deny ourselves (our desires, wants, preferences)
  2. Take up our crosses (our burdens) of pride, ego, selfishness, sinfulness, rebellion, etc.
  3. Follow Christ who alone leads to the Father and eternal life.
This fleeting, transient life that we are living leads inexorably to an eternity in which time ceases to exist - yet we still exist! Sacrifice in this life will yield infinite benefits in the next life. The more you live for the next life, the less the tribulations of this life matter, and the more peaceful and joy-filled one naturally becomes.

Sounds contradictory, but it is not.
 
You didn’t answer my question. How can we get to all that stuff without the other questions being answered first?
 
Humans cannot fully know God. We are finite and He is infinite. Our capacity as a created entity has designed-in limits.

What, precisely is your question?
 
po18guy said:
Humans cannot fully know God.
Click to expand...
Then how can we fully know his will, thus offend God enough to warrant eternal damnation. The test is given to us with little knowledge and conflicting stories. Once we die and gain the knowledge then it’s too late. Seem fair?
 
  1. There is no conflict in the Church which Christ founded. He did not leave us orphans.
  2. We all rely 100% on God’s mercy and grace.
  3. We have very strong divinely-principled guidelines as revealed through the deposit of faith.
  4. We have an inclination to over-think, which means that we often under-act.
I think you are looking for what might be called a “pat answer” but none exists.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top