Catholics and illegal immigration

[karebear92]

Of the jobs listed (at minimum), people other than undocumented immigrants are quite willing to do many of those jobs, especially those bolded.

Still, why are immigrants the target for angst and punishment? Their presence in America does not prevent American citizens from getting the job, and they are not to blame for the lack of Americans filling the jobs. A farmer can not pay high wages for harvesting fruits and vegetables unless you want to start paying six dollars for an apple. If Americans are not willing to work for the pay and would rather receive unemployment benefits than find a job, that is a problem with Americans rather than illegal immigrants.

 

[Blacksword]

No. That is not what my comments imply. They are directed toward pnewton, who implied that non-immigrants are far less productive than immigrants. Both of his implied stereotypes are inaccurate. So your claim that my comments are invalid is based on an inaccurate reading of my earlier Reply.

My students are poor blacks (native English speakers, yes) who are “taught” (not) in schools overrun by undocumented students with illiterate parents (illiterate in their own langage even). When I say overrun, I mean an enrollment of 90+% undocumented, non-English-speaking immigrants from Latin America. To cope, Spanish-speaking “teachers” (many not credentialed, some of them just parents ) come into these (usually charter public) schools, struggle to try unsuccessfully to teach the students English curriculum, in Spanish only. (The illiterate teaching the illiterate.) My role is to rescue the poor black students, who often miss as much as a year or two of school – stalled in this circus which poses for education, and as a result I homeschool them with public funds, when those public funds are available. But they cannot use me much, as the funds cover very little of my time, and usually then these poor black families have to rely on their own parents to try to teach them, which in turn throws these families into greater poverty, as no parent can really have a full-time job and be a full-time schoolteacher of their children (especially of more than one).

I’m confused by this bit about schools. How do you know 90% of the students are undocumented? Who are these teachers, U.S. citizens, permanent residents, nonimmigrant H-1B’s? Schools don’t hire undocumented teachers or teachers without education, not if they want to keep their funding and stay open. I’m very curious as to where this is and what the full facts of the matter are.

 

[exnihilo]

Your frustration is to some degree understandable, but the fact that lazy out of work Americans are in large numbers unwilling to bath and feed our seniors, build our buildins, clean and landscape our homes, can our goods, pick our cotton, farm our land, harvest our crops, or pack and process our meat and poultry isn’t the fault of undocumenteds who WILL.

They aren’t willing because they get paid not to work. It isn’t by accident that natives are happy to not work. If they were starving they would work hard. In fact that is what motivates the illegals. They aren’t better people otherwise their homeland would be better which is clearly isn’t which is why they move.

The way folks look at this aspect of the problem, which is the heart of it, baffles me. It is like saying the best thing to do for the lazy child of a rich man is to let him continue to get checks from his trust fund. It is like an out of work homeowner paying people to do minor housework.

Yeah, but I would ay that this has little to do with illegal immigrants, but, rather, illegal immigration is a result of a poor American attitude. The reason college graduates don’t is because they feel overqualified for doing such work. Once again, this is a problem with American attitude rather than illegal immigration. You can not blame the result. You must blame the cause. You can’t blame the illegal immigrants who are willing to do the work Americans feel they are above.

That feeling would soon dissipate if the choice was work or starve. If you give money to someone to sit on their tail that is what they will do.

I can most certainly blame the result because it is mostly the same people who want to pay Americans not to work, thus creating a class of lazy folks who dont have to work, who solve that problem by letting in illegals who are motivated because they would starve in their own country (and the advocates, defying logic, even admit this and thus throw in the humanitarian argument).

 

[pnewton]

I would have very little objection to open immigration laws if there was not a giant social welfare state.

I agree that the two have to go hand in hand. Open immigration for workers is not the same as open immigration for those that just want to come over for welfare. Indeed, I am not opposed to limiting all government assistance to citizens and those that pay for the privilege of working here, as I believe all immigrants should. I would note though, that the argument is usually that they come here and take the jobs of Americans, not that they come here to be idle.

 

[Blacksword]

They aren’t willing because they get paid not to work. It isn’t by accident that natives are happy to not work. If they were starving they would work hard. In fact that is what motivates the illegals. They aren’t better people otherwise their homeland would be better which is clearly isn’t which is why they move.

The way folks look at this aspect of the problem, which is the heart of it, baffles me. It is like saying the best thing to do for the lazy child of a rich man is to let him continue to get checks from his trust fund. It is like an out of work homeowner paying people to do minor housework.

That feeling would soon dissipate if the choice was work or starve. If you give money to someone to sit on their tail that is what they will do.

I can most certainly blame the result because it is mostly the same people who want to pay Americans not to work, thus creating a class of lazy folks who dont have to work, who solve that problem by letting in illegals who are motivated because they would starve in their own country (and the advocates, defying logic, even admit this and thus throw in the humanitarian argument).

Sigh, you’re listening to way too much Rush Limbaugh. No one wants to create a nation of lazy unemployed idiots, there is no left wing conspiracy to bring this about. And the basic goodness of an immigrant group does not have any bearing on the state of their native country. The poorest have no power. They can do nothing about their home country’s state.

 

[pnewton]

… may I suggest that a wee bit more objectivity would go a long way to making for a mature dialogue.

I have never insulted anyone for their disagreement with the bishop’s statement, I do not think there is any place for devaluing someone else’s opinion in this dialogue. I will engage in no dialogue with a poster who begins with ad hominem remarks.

I appreciate the ability to disagree while still respecting the opinions of others. That is my definition of a mature dialogue.

 

[pnewton]

The first duty is to provide for the common good of the citizens who elected the lawmakers. We are not allowed to do evil so as to bring about a good - that is the basis for the moral law.

It is a good principle and one I am sure our bishops are aware of. What I do not understand is what objective evil act do you see being committed? That is what this principle refers to.

 

[karebear92]

That feeling would soon dissipate if the choice was work or starve. If you give money to someone to sit on their tail that is what they will do.

Until a child dies because daddy couldn’t find work or couldn’t make enough to support his family. That isn’t acceptable in my opinion. We should be stricter in having them find jobs, but the above scenario is not acceptable. Read The Grapes of Wrath.

exnihilo:

I can most certainly blame the result because it is mostly the same people who want to pay Americans not to work, thus creating a class of lazy folks who dont have to work, who solve that problem by letting in illegals who are motivated because they would starve in their own country (and the advocates, defying logic, even admit this and thus throw in the humanitarian argument).

Nobody wants Americans not to work. There is not a conspiracy theory here. Sorry for throwing in the humanitarian argument in my first sentence, but it is a serious problem.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I’m confused by this bit about schools. How do you know 90% of the students are undocumented?

Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Because I work in a variety of these schools, and have for the last 7 years. I’m on site at a number of them, due to my position, which I don’t have to discose to you (nor my location). I see and hear with my own eyes, precisely what is happening. In addition, the populations of these schools are searchable, except that I’m not required to disclose my private identifying information to you, per CAF Terms of Service.

Who are these teachers, U.S. citizens, permanent residents, nonimmigrant H-1B’s? Schools don’t hire undocumented teachers or teachers without education, not if they want to keep their funding and stay open. I’m very curious as to where this is and what the full facts of the matter are.

Again – repeating myself ***yet again ***-- these are charter schools which are informally administered, which is why they get around the rules in a chaotic and large school system which the State has lost control over.

Try to follow.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Blacksword,

I have been thinking about this group of items you offered as the reasons for the failure of the 1986 Immigration Act.

Now, I do not want to belittle our law makers - especially after watching them in action with this debt ceiling crisis activity… but, really, just what would you expect on a practical basis for a law adddressing the “… underlying marcro-economic and geo-socio-political…” elements of immigration? Really, just take that one and flesh it out just a bit so we can see what is going on.

Personally, I do not have a clue on what would be required to comply with this - and how anyone could measure it to see if this was meeting the established goals.

I thought the 1986 law was good and was under the impression that this was going to work (of course, I have no real dealings with immigrants, lawyers or enforcement officers - so, it gradually left ‘my radar screen’ and I moved on to other things. But, the demand for yet another round of amnesty sparked the inquiry that if the '86 law failed, why on earth would we want to try this again? My guess is that from '86 forward, actual even-handed enforcement was dropped and more illegals came over and we were back to the same problem.

Yes, employers can and do break the laws designed to prevent these situations from developing - and in the process, deportation stands out as something is deserved for those who have broken the law. Here is truly an intriguing case for all of its complexities and the years it took to resolve: chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6564543.html I provide this story as a possible example you could use to address the failure of the 1986 law. If this is not possible - fine - but, I would like to see a practical application of what you are proposing.

God bless

The 1986 Act failed because it did nothing to actually address the underlying macro-economic and geo-socio-political reasons causing illegal immigration. It provided no reforms or introductions of necessary nonimmigrant work visas in appropriate labor areas, it provided no relief for the twenty-plus year backlogs in immigrant visa numbers for relatives such as adult children of US citizens, brothers and sisters of US citizens, etc. We continued needing labor only undocumented immigrants are willing to give and yet provided no way for them to enter legally. Fix that and you fix the system.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Karebear92,

I am having a little trouble following your reasoning here… the discussion is not about immigrants - but, rather ILLEGAL immigrants. I highlighed the section I had difficulty with. If you would kindly address the concern from the standpoint of illegality, I would appreciate it.

By the way, a college education is usually considered valuable (but maybe not to the poster who was pointing out the that degrees in the social sciences are by their nature phoney because they do not translate into immediate employment… God help the Art, Drama and English majors! ) But, the value does not come in the form of being ‘shovel ready’ or hit the ground running on the employment market. The degree indicates, at least to me, that this individual was disciplined enough to comply with the college’s requirements for mastering various courses of study. It does not say s/he is smart, energetic or even a good golfer. This goes for all degrees - and if any employer hires a new grad thinking that they are not going to have train them - then the employer is simply delusional. The key here is that if the new grad can master the subjects in college, he should be able to master what his employer wants him to learn and do. Later in life is when the value of these items takes on mroe meaning - but, that is for another thread.

God bless

What are you talking about here? The government providing money for education, particularly college education for citizens, or just immigrants (legal and illegal)? Either way, an immigrant’s college education is just as valuable as a non-immigrant’s college education. Without pell grants and things of that nature, many poor, yet deserving Americans would not be able to attend college. That seriously hampers America’s claim to equal opportunity and would be terrible for both the the economy and the government in the long run.

 

[Blacksword]

Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Because I work in a variety of these schools, and have for the last 7 years. I’m on site at a number of them, due to my position, which I don’t have to discose to you (nor my location). I see and hear with my own eyes, precisely what is happening. In addition, the populations of these schools are searchable, except that I’m not required to disclose my private identifying information to you, per CAF Terms of Service.

Again – repeating myself ***yet again ***-- these are charter schools which are informally administered, which is why they get around the rules in a chaotic and large school system which the State has lost control over.

Try to follow.

Ok, in other words: you don’t know the actual immigration status of ANY of these people in particular, no idea if they are illegal, asylum applicants, nonimmigrants, refugees, under temporary protected status, pending adjustment applicants, citizens, legal permanent resident aliens, or any of dozens of other potential types of status, neither the students nor their parents nor these teachers. You just are quite sure you “know”. And you’re a little bit rude about it as well. Got it:thumbsup:

I will say this: if the school is truly hiring undocumented workers as teachers, simply report it to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, I’m sure they’d be happy to look into it. They have phone contacts as well as email, you can look these up at www.ice.gov.

But FYI, just because someone is Hispanic and speaks Spanish, just because they may be lower income, doesn’t mean they are undocumented.

 

[karebear92]

Hi, Karebear92,

I am having a little trouble following your reasoning here… the discussion is not about immigrants - but, rather ILLEGAL immigrants. I highlighed the section I had difficulty with. If you would kindly address the concern from the standpoint of illegality, I would appreciate it.

By the way, a college education is usually considered valuable (but maybe not to the poster who was pointing out the that degrees in the social sciences are by their nature phoney because they do not translate into immediate employment… God help the Art, Drama and English majors! ) But, the value does not come in the form of being ‘shovel ready’ or hit the ground running on the employment market. The degree indicates, at least to me, that this individual was disciplined enough to comply with the college’s requirements for mastering various courses of study. It does not say s/he is smart, energetic or even a good golfer. This goes for all degrees - and if any employer hires a new grad thinking that they are not going to have train them - then the employer is simply delusional. The key here is that if the new grad can master the subjects in college, he should be able to master what his employer wants him to learn and do. Later in life is when the value of these items takes on mroe meaning - but, that is for another thread.

God bless

I would love to.
The first part was a question. I wasn’t sure what they were addressing. The reason I asked is because our unemployment rate is not caused by illegal immigration pell grants or education any more than any other pell grant recipient. As for the part you bolded, an illegal immigrants education is just as valuable as a citizens. I am not saying that they are smarter or anything, but colleges have admission requirements, and if they meet the requirements they belong there just as much as anyone else. Do you see what I am saying?

The poster said:

I am talking about the government ‘educating’ every citizen so that they are too good for labor. And thus needing illegal labor.

I am talking about the government subsidizing Americans to get degrees in pseudo social sciences while importing immigrants with hard science degrees because we *need *that education. Then those with pseudo social science degrees cant find a job and collect unemployment and welfare. So the government pays for a worthless education and the fruits of it.

The government also pays for immigrant college educations, legal and illegal. We let the illegals in because we need unskilled labor (because we are paying Americans not to work) and then educate them thus needing more unskilled labor. We tax citizens to pay for immigrant college education, mostly occurring at government universities, and then flood the labor market with these immigrants who drive down wages.

I was addressing the first sentence. Nobody is ever too good for manual labor, no matter what degree they have. If citizens do not work because they are too good for labor, that is not an illegal immigration issue, but an American attitude issue. If a brain surgeon is unemployed and needs money, his status as a brain surgeon does not make him too good to build a house or work in a field. I agree with what a degree means. And if an illegal immigrant is able to qualify to get into college, then they are just as entitled to the money as an American citizen. Does that make more sense? Yes, that is for another thread, but he brought up education funding and I felt it was necessary to address it.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Blacksword,

You know, I read her response and I didn’t think she was being rude at all … I did think she was addressing her concern about boundaries that she is not going to cross - in a matter of fact manner, Counselor. But, cheer up … I am still eagerly awaiting your response on how we can get a reasonable solution forward as we learn from the mistakes of the 1986 Immigration law.

As another consideration, I thought you may have told her about Whistleblower Protection Act … en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower_Protection_Act in addition to the ICE link… but, after reading this wiki link, I guess it would be a good idea to have another job handy first! The glow from all of its protection is a bit dim to my eyes.

God bless

Ok, in other words: you don’t know the actual immigration status of ANY of these people in particular, no idea if they are illegal, asylum applicants, nonimmigrants, refugees, under temporary protected status, pending adjustment applicants, citizens, legal permanent resident aliens, or any of dozens of other potential types of status, neither the students nor their parents nor these teachers. You just are quite sure you “know”. And you’re a little bit rude about it as well. Got it:thumbsup:

I will say this: if the school is truly hiring undocumented workers as teachers, simply report it to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, I’m sure they’d be happy to look into it. They have phone contacts as well as email, you can look these up at www.ice.gov.

But FYI, just because someone is Hispanic and speaks Spanish, just because they may be lower income, doesn’t mean they are undocumented.

 

[Blacksword]

Hi, Blacksword,

I have been thinking about this group of items you offered as the reasons for the failure of the 1986 Immigration Act.

Now, I do not want to belittle our law makers - especially after watching them in action with this debt ceiling crisis activity… but, really, just what would you expect on a practical basis for a law adddressing the “… underlying marcro-economic and geo-socio-political…” elements of immigration? Really, just take that one and flesh it out just a bit so we can see what is going on.

Personally, I do not have a clue on what would be required to comply with this - and how anyone could measure it to see if this was meeting the established goals.

I thought the 1986 law was good and was under the impression that this was going to work (of course, I have no real dealings with immigrants, lawyers or enforcement officers - so, it gradually left ‘my radar screen’ and I moved on to other things. But, the demand for yet another round of amnesty sparked the inquiry that if the '86 law failed, why on earth would we want to try this again? My guess is that from '86 forward, actual even-handed enforcement was dropped and more illegals came over and we were back to the same problem.

Yes, employers can and do break the laws designed to prevent these situations from developing - and in the process, deportation stands out as something is deserved for those who have broken the law. Here is truly an intriguing case for all of its complexities and the years it took to resolve: chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6564543.html I provide this story as a possible example you could use to address the failure of the 1986 law. If this is not possible - fine - but, I would like to see a practical application of what you are proposing.

God bless

What I am proposing as far as actually addressing the problem is pretty straight forward in many respects: fix the current H-2B visa for starters. It should have no annual cap, and should not require a labor market test before approval, nor should be primarily employer-driven, which at present makes it nearly impossible for employers to match up with would-be workers. Instead, it should be a registry of employers in seasonal work such as agriculture, with an allotment of open jobs each employer needs. Foreign nationals wishing for such jobs could apply for the visa at their Consulate nearest their residence, and be given the lists and matched up at their visa interviews with a suitable job site/employer.

For other high demand and underserved unskilled jobs not seasonal in nature, there should be a new nonimmigrant work visa, with a labor market tested and variable by year annual cap, allowing for nonimmigrant entry of workers for unskilled labor such as poultry processing, landscaping, elderly nursing home care, and construction, etc. The Dept. Of Labor would have monitoring over these various industries to determine market need for such jobs, and in consultation with applicable private sector organizations, assess visa availability each year. Various US worker protections can be included, such as required recruitment attempts for employers having over, say, 20% of their workforce comprised of said nonimmigrant workers, and various attestations. Similar to the requirements for H-1B specialty occupation workers already in place for degreed professional occupations.

Eliminate the 212(a)(9)(B) bars to admissibility, terrible law from IRAIRA that has been a disaster from the get go. Recapture the tens of thousands of unused immigrant visa numbers for waiting immigrants that have been lost from delayed government processing for years. Eliminate the counting of dependent family members (children and spouses) from counting towards the annual immigrant visa caps, thus only counting the principle immigrant. Bring back 245(i) for those here now to legalize paying hefty civil fines for their civil offenses. Provide adequate funding to ICE and a mandate to ICE to use that funding to go after and PROSECUTE employers who continue to hire undocumented workers (though with the other fixes this population would pretty much be eliminated!), instead of targeting the immigrants. Do these things, and pretty much voilà, problem solved. The undocumented population here now is pretty much normalized and done away with, and new ones don’t enter without inspection because they now have the proper avenues to get a visa and enter the easy way instead of making a dangerous journey across hundreds of miles of desert on foot. Those are pretty good for starters!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Blacksword,

Thank you very much. There are a lot of technical items in your presentation … and here I was thinking that there was an infinite set of numbers and now I learn that unused visa numbers have to ‘recaptured’ … lest they just roam off the pasture and are never heard from again… But, that was just my effort at humor, rather than just void that group of numbers out and add a couple of extra digits so that many more visas can be created… or something like that.

As I read your ideas, I get the impression that enforcement will need to be increased (old habits and coyotes die hard!) Do you have any comments on the Shipley Doughnut case I included?

God bless

What I am proposing as far as actually addressing the problem is pretty straight forward in many respects: fix the current H-2B visa for starters. It should have no annual cap, and should not require a labor market test before approval, nor should be primarily employer-driven, which at present makes it nearly impossible for employers to match up with would-be workers. Instead, it should be a registry of employers in seasonal work such as agriculture, with an allotment of open jobs each employer needs. Foreign nationals wishing for such jobs could apply for the visa at their Consulate nearest their residence, and be given the lists and matched up at their visa interviews with a suitable job site/employer.

For other high demand and underserved unskilled jobs not seasonal in nature, there should be a new nonimmigrant work visa, with a labor market tested and variable by year annual cap, allowing for nonimmigrant entry of workers for unskilled labor such as poultry processing, landscaping, elderly nursing home care, and construction, etc. The Dept. Of Labor would have monitoring over these various industries to determine market need for such jobs, and in consultation with applicable private sector organizations, assess visa availability each year. Various US worker protections can be included, such as required recruitment attempts for employers having over, say, 20% of their workforce comprised of said nonimmigrant workers, and various attestations. Similar to the requirements for H-1B specialty occupation workers already in place for degreed professional occupations.

Eliminate the 212(a)(9)(B) bars to admissibility, terrible law from IRAIRA that has been a disaster from the get go. Recapture the tens of thousands of unused immigrant visa numbers for waiting immigrants that have been lost from delayed government processing for years. Eliminate the counting of dependent family members (children and spouses) from counting towards the annual immigrant visa caps, thus only counting the principle immigrant. Bring back 245(i) for those here now to legalize paying hefty civil fines for their civil offenses. Provide adequate funding to ICE and a mandate to ICE to use that funding to go after and PROSECUTE employers who continue to hire undocumented workers (though with the other fixes this population would pretty much be eliminated!), instead of targeting the immigrants. Do these things, and pretty much voilà, problem solved. The undocumented population here now is pretty much normalized and done away with, and new ones don’t enter without inspection because they now have the proper avenues to get a visa and enter the easy way instead of making a dangerous journey across hundreds of miles of desert on foot. Those are pretty good for starters!

 

[Blacksword]

Hi, Blacksword,

Thank you very much. There are a lot of technical items in your presentation … and here I was thinking that there was an infinite set of numbers and now I learn that unused visa numbers have to ‘recaptured’ … lest they just roam off the pasture and are never heard from again… But, that was just my effort at humor, rather than just void that group of numbers out and add a couple of extra digits so that many more visas can be created… or something like that.

As I read your ideas, I get the impression that enforcement will need to be increased (old habits and coyotes die hard!) Do you have any comments on the Shipley Doughnut case I included?

God bless

Well, the case itself is fairly typical, this sort of thing is not altogether uncommon. Businesses being fined and so forth for hiring undocumented workers, happens frequently enough, but I’m not sure what that particular case has to say about the overall picture of things.

What I can say regarding enforcement is we need the right kind of enforcement. This has to include serious prison time for American officers and staff of companies who are responsible for knowingly employing unauthorized workers. Fines can be effective, but only against small-time companies and violators. The very wealthy look at fines as a slap on the wrist, the cost of doing business. Better oversight, better investigation, and better prosecution are key. When rich American CEO’s start doing hard time, notice will be duly taken by other employers.

But punishing the unauthorized workers who are desperate, often exploited themselves, and who have no real power, is pointless, costly, wasteful of government resources and time, and inhumane.

Regarding visa numbers, yes, currently even the pitifully low allotment of immigrant visas in immigrant visa categories that remain unused disappear at the end of the fiscal year, being lost forever. And not for want of them, as backlogs exceeding twenty years exist in many categories of family immigration, and ten years or more in employment-based immigration! Rather, it’s that USCIS can drag it’s feet, delaying approval of cases that do have current priority dates, and on Oct. 1 the unused numbers for the ending fiscal year are gone. About half of the current illegally present population are NOT border crossers, they entered on valid visas and have overstayed. Many of these, as well as plenty of those who did enter without inspection, are waiting on an immigrant visa number that is taking twenty years or so to get their green cards, and thus many of them would be taken care of simply by recapturing these numbers from previous years to advance the priority dates. Except of course that now these people have rendered themselves permanently inadmissible for their entry without inspection or unlawful period of presence under the aforementioned badly misguided 212(a)(9)(B) bars.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Ok, in other words: you don’t know the actual immigration status of ANY of these people in particular.

You seem not to understand much about the way public schools work – both site and charter. If you’re either in an administrative position or a teaching position, you have access to the personal records of your students. So yes, I do know their legal status. They flood particular areas and some of these schools have essentially developed ‘overnight’ to accommodate large influxes. Given the high illiteracy of the parents (which is also extremely typical for undocumented immigrants from the rural areas of Mexico, El Salvador, and some other areas of Latin America), there are also not the resources in place to assist. I also go into their homes, because that is also part of my job, which gives me additional access. Charter schools absolutely depend on parental participation for their very existence (it’s written right into the charter); however, when the parents are functionally or actually illiterate in their own language, these low-budget schools are overwhelmed, because the staffing is not readily available. The school site becomes essentially like an educational Emergency Room of a hospital, with triage operative. The unlucky English speakers in these schools are simply out of luck. And lacking funds, they have nowhere to go.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Hi, Blacksword,

You know, I read her response and I didn’t think she was being rude at all … I did think she was addressing her concern about boundaries that she is not going to cross - in a matter of fact manner, Counselor.

Thank you, Tom.

 

[Blacksword]

You seem not to understand much about the way public schools work – both site and charter. If you’re either in an administrative position or a teaching position, you have access to the personal records of your students. So yes, I do know their legal status. They flood particular areas and some of these schools have essentially developed ‘overnight’ to accommodate large influxes. Given the high illiteracy of the parents (which is also extremely typical for undocumented immigrants from the rural areas of Mexico, El Salvador, and some other areas of Latin America), there are also not the resources in place to assist. I also go into their homes, because that is also part of my job, which gives me additional access. Charter schools absolutely depend on parental participation for their very existence (it’s written right into the charter); however, when the parents are functionally or actually illiterate in their own language, these low-budget schools are overwhelmed, because the staffing is not readily available. The school site becomes essentially like an educational Emergency Room of a hospital, with triage operative. The unlucky English speakers in these schools are simply out of luck. And lacking funds, they have nowhere to go.

No, I readily admit to not knowing the ins and outs of charter school administration. However, while many might be undocumented, I doubt your “personal files” really tell you that. Those from places like Honduras may well be applicants for asylum or other status, who knows? Are you saying your files have I-797 receipts in them, or other federal immigration documents, or would if they were legal? However, I’m confused about what you said about them having no place else to go when a charter school is overwhelmed. Can’t they enroll in public school? At least there they are pretty much guaranteed to have English speaking, degreed teachers. I admit I don’t know if there’s some reason they can’t attend public school, so I’m just asking.