Catholics and Jesus personal?

[fhansen]

I was just wondering if catholic are encouraged to have and seek a personal relationship with Jesus as savior and god?. If so when and were is this generally taught in catholic belief/theology. Are catholic encouraged to pray to jesus personally and ask forgiveness of sins without a priest present?.

thanks.

There’s more of an emphasis in Catholicism, I believe, on Jesus’s godhood: that when you’ve seen Him you’ve seen the Father; you’re meeting God, because the vey purpose of the Incarnation is the reestablishment of communion between man and God. Jesus came to reveal the Father to us. The purpose of the His life and Atonement is to reconcile man with God, by definitively proving His existence first of all, then His uncompromising trustworthiness, boundless goodness, mercy, and His lavish, unconditional love for man, in spite of our sin and even hatred of Him.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

I was just wondering if catholic are encouraged to have and seek a personal relationship with Jesus as savior and god?. If so when and were is this generally taught in catholic belief/theology. Are catholic encouraged to pray to jesus personally and ask forgiveness of sins without a priest present?.

thanks.

Yes, Catholics have always been encouraged to build a personal relationship with God in Jesus Christ as Savior and God. The lives of the saints are living examples of this. This is rather obvious to Catholics given that they are reasonable informed.

From the Catechism (§ 2558): “This mystery [of the Trinity revealed by Christ], then, requires that the faithful believe in it, that they celebrate it, and that they live from it in a vital and personal relationship with the living and true God. This relationship is prayer.”

I phrase things as I did in the first sentence for the following reasons.

(1) The OT didn’t so much teach humanity to believe in a god as to believe in the one true God.

(2) Jesus came to give humanity the full truth about God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We are to have a relationship with the Trinity–actually share in the life of the Trinity–as adopted sons. “No one comes to the Father but through me.” (Jn 14:16) “For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.” (Eph 2:18) “God sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, ‘Abba, Father!’” (Gal 4:6; Rm 8:15) Texts could be multiplied.

(3) Our personal relationship with Jesus always included being drawn into His communion with the Father and the Holy Spirit and so it leads into a personal relationship with all three Persons of the Blessed Trinity.

Confession requires true contrition beforehand which by definition is to “pray to Jesus personally and ask forgiveness of sins without a priest present.”

But, since for the CC East and West and the EOC sacramental Confession is the ordinary means God established by which the forgiveness and reconciliation Jesus gained for humanity is brought into the individual repentant sinner’s life, the intention to go to Confession is included in repentance. If it is impossible to get to confession, the intention suffices.

I would observe that all denominations have some means or process by which the forgiveness and reconciliation Jesus gained for humanity is brought into the individual repentant sinner’s life, at least for the first time. And no denomination holds that Jesus’ death and resurrection is all- and self-sufficient to the point that we don’t have anything whatsoever to do (e.g., choices to make) for it to be brought into our lives.

 

[po18guy]

I will take this as a question for protestants. First we pray to ask forgiveness to god and jesus directly [jesus happens to be divine] and ask our high priest [jesus] to intercede for us as well. We think the link connect straight to god through jesus [no priest necessary] . Not one of us [well that i know of] rejects jesus in a fully human [body] and his blood [that saves us not works].

Great! But you NEVER hear Jesus’ words of absolution. Jesus told each and every sinner that their sins were forgiven, and gave that same authority over sin to the Twelve. Saint Paul forgave sins in the person of Christ, as did all of the Apostles. This was thrown out 1,500 years later. Where is the biblical authorization to do that?

you may feel the need to be in some church made tabernacle not built to biblical dimensions/demands. But we see a direct connection to god.

That Tabernacle houses Jesus Christ. I feel drawn to Him.

“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body,” (1 Cor. 6:19-20).

So, you worship yourself? You go to yourself? You humble yourself before yourself?

"Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come** to him and make our home with him”** (John 14:23).

Does that include the command “take, eat, this is My Body”?

Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2 and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.
hebrews 8 1-2

Are you claiming that Catholics do not have the same high priest? How long have you been at CAF learning now? Please keep in mind that the “biblical” Christianity, as you appear to practice it, existed nowhere on earth for at least 1,500 years after Christ. Many of its practices, including ‘bible alone’, are simply not in the bible. Be extremely careful before you attempt to convict the 2,000 year old Catholic and Orthodox Churches of being man-made. It would be a great help to look into history a bit more.

 

[total_relism]

I have allot to learn about catholic thought before i want to debate anything, this will be my last post on this.

to me its clear your hatred of protestant thought completely blinds you to reason. you even go against catholic thought in order to try and say its illogical.

But you have pastors, do you not? If no one is necessary except Jesus, why the need for anyone to get up to lead you? Can’t you all just meet and pray together if all of you are so directly connected to God? You see how illogical your position if you take it to its logical conclusion? Your position is why the Quakers have no ministers.

yes we have pastors [most] they have many functions as they do in catholic churches,not just to be confessed to. Otherwise complain to catholics for priest having other functions.

“Can’t you all just meet and pray together if all of you are so directly connected to God?”

yes we can, we even do, as crazy as that sounds i know many catholic who do as well] in fact catholic teachings tells you to have your own prayer time outside of church.

So, why bother to have a church building at all? Why not meet in each other’s houses to read the Bible and pray that way? Again, taken to its logical conclusion, this is illogical.

as i said, the nt teaches we dont need a building to worship god in the passages i sent and
also look to matt 18.20.

but as for your question, as crazy as it sounds we do, as do Catholics i know, as did apostels,jesus etc.

but i would say reason to have a church building, is to have a place for all to gather [would need a very big house for all] and worship together,pray, etc.

Indeed, Jesus is the tabernacle not made by human hands. And this same Jesus, who is our high priest, established the ministerial priesthood to administer the 7 sacraments he gave us, and which all Christians everywhere practiced for nearly 1600 years. Were they wrong all those centuries? Why did the world have to wait for the so-called reformation to get the “true gospel?” Isn’t that rather presumptuous–to assume that mere men, with no authority from God, decided to throw out what Christ himself established?

The plain truth is that these are the questions all Protestants who believe as you have written here have to answer for themselves, so they will know what Christ and the Apostles actually taught. The Church existed for several centuries before Luther. It evangelized Europe and a good part of the world before he was ever born. A bit of real history and solid theology gives us the truth about these things.

no,speaking of god dwelling within us. The rest are great questions that start with assumptions mixed with fact and fiction, but all are just a way of ignoring what was said and changing subject. I have debated enough to avoid those attempts. Besides those questions deserve there own thread [coming soon] and since we have already been warned for being off topic, i say all the more reason to avoid your trap.

First we get the phrase " its not biblical " as justifications for your arguements.
Now you say " its not unbiblical " .Well, i dont know what to make of this.
How do you know that something which is not unbiblical is biblical or something which is not biblical is not unbiblical?

great question

to call something unbiblical, biblical i would say what the catholics do at times]. I disagree wholly. If the bible does not mention not doing something [driving cars,celebrate Christmas] and it is constant with bible, why not.

Please don’t assume to speak for all protestants. Please, speak for yourself, or your communion.
From the Apology of the Augsburg Confession:
*It is well known that we have so elucidated and extolled [that we have preached, written, and taught in a, manner so Christian, correct, and pure] the benefit of absolution and the power of the keys that many distressed consciences have derived consolation from our doctrine; after they heard that it is the command of God, nay, **rather the very voice of the Gospel, that we should believe the absolution, and regard it as certain that the remission of sins is freely granted us for Christ’s sake; and that we should believe that by this faith we are truly reconciled to God [as though we heard a voice from heaven]. ***

That voice we actually hear, “as though we heard a voice from Heaven”, is that of the pastor/confessor, exercising the power of the keys granted to the Church by Christ Himself, first through St. Peter, then the rest of the apostles.

Jon

interesting thanks, could you give direct link to it and what part that is from?. good thing for me man is not my authority, regardless if they are protestant.

 

[total_relism]

Yes, **Catholics have always been encouraged to build a personal relationship with God in Jesus Christ as Savior and God. ** The lives of the saints are living examples of this. This is rather obvious to Catholics given that they are reasonable informed.

From the Catechism (§ 2558): “This mystery [of the Trinity revealed by Christ], then, requires that the faithful believe in it, that they celebrate it, and that they live from it in a vital and personal relationship with the living and true God. This relationship is prayer.”

I phrase things as I did in the first sentence for the following reasons.

(1) The OT didn’t so much teach humanity to believe in a god as to believe in the one true God.

(2) Jesus came to give humanity the full truth about God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We are to have a relationship with the Trinity–actually share in the life of the Trinity–as adopted sons. “No one comes to the Father but through me.” (Jn 14:16) “For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.” (Eph 2:18) “God sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, ‘Abba, Father!’” (Gal 4:6; Rm 8:15) Texts could be multiplied.

(3) Our personal relationship with Jesus always included being drawn into His communion with the Father and the Holy Spirit and so it leads into a personal relationship with all three Persons of the Blessed Trinity.

Confession requires true contrition beforehand which by definition is to “pray to Jesus personally and ask forgiveness of sins without a priest present.”

But, since for the CC East and West and the EOC sacramental Confession is the ordinary means God established by which the forgiveness and reconciliation Jesus gained for humanity is brought into the individual repentant sinner’s life, the intention to go to Confession is included in repentance. If it is impossible to get to confession, the intention suffices.

I would observe that all denominations have some means or process by which the forgiveness and reconciliation Jesus gained for humanity is brought into the individual repentant sinner’s life, at least for the first time. And no denomination holds that Jesus’ death and resurrection is all- and self-sufficient to the point that we don’t have anything whatsoever to do (e.g., choices to make) for it to be brought into our lives.

great post

“Confession requires true contrition beforehand which by definition is to “pray to Jesus personally and ask forgiveness of sins without a priest present.””

just wondering if you could tell me alittel more on this, or were it is in doctrine.
thanks.

Great! But you NEVER hear Jesus’ words of absolution. Jesus told each and every sinner that their sins were forgiven, and gave that same authority over sin to the Twelve. Saint Paul forgave sins in the person of Christ, as did all of the Apostles. This was thrown out 1,500 years later. Where is the biblical authorization to do that?
That Tabernacle houses Jesus Christ. I feel drawn to Him.
So, you worship yourself? You go to yourself? You humble yourself before yourself?

Does that include the command “take, eat, this is My Body”?
Are you claiming that Catholics do not have the same high priest? How long have you been at CAF learning now? Please keep in mind that the “biblical” Christianity, as you appear to practice it, existed nowhere on earth for at least 1,500 years after Christ. Many of its practices, including ‘bible alone’, are simply not in the bible. Be extremely careful before you attempt to convict the 2,000 year old Catholic and Orthodox Churches of being man-made. It would be a great help to look into history a bit more.

well two questions here

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 john 1.9

we trust in gods love.mercy to forgive. Also that thing jesus did on the cross.

first comes the question of apotels succession. did what the apostles were given pass on. I would be very interested in future thread on this subject we discuss the very issue you raise here on apostles forgiving sins. Not the topic here though.

I would say that avoids biblical teachings and reason i posted the passages.

please read the bible, dont allow your hate of protestants to cloud what the bible clearly teaches.

it does sure, what is meant by it [actual eating jesus] is a future thread debate.

no please take time to read my post before responses. I say the building of the church, the mass, the priest is not needed for communion with god. the rest is just to try and bump off track top avoid topic, all need there own threads as well.

 

[JonNC]

interesting thanks, could you give direct link to it and what part that is from?. good thing for me man is not my authority, regardless if they are protestant.

Man is not my authority, either. But God did establish the Church to teach, to preach the Gospel and administer the sacraments, including Confession/Holy Absolution. He placed into the hands of the Church the power of the keys, to bind and loose sin. Through the entire history of the Church, that power to bind and loose sin has been exercised by the Church through its presbyters - bishops, priests/pastors, called and ordained to do these things.

Jon

bookofconcord.org/defense_9_confession.php

 

[Isaiah45_9]

good thing for me man is not my authority, regardless if they are protestant.

I’ve never heard that before . Very anarchistic in thought and the clear fruit of Church division - most definitely not the fruit of the Spirit.

1 Peter 5:5 Likewise you that are younger be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”