Catholics and Lutherans seek communion agreement

[Lutheranteach]

huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/18/lutheran-leader-seeks-com_n_798413.html

 

[thomasf]

How about this: Become catholic and you can receive communion. It works for everyone.

 

[odhiambo]

Christian Unity Week, the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity which began in 1908 as the Octave of Christian Unity, and focused on prayer for church unity is about to begin on 18/01/2011 through to 25/01/2011. Let us hope that in the end, all Christians will be one, instead of just “Lutherans and Catholics to issue a common statement on Holy Communion”!

 

[Dale_M]

“Our intention is to arrive at 2017 with a common Roman Catholic-Lutheran declaration on Eucharistic hospitality,” Bishop Munib Younan told the Italian Protestant news agency NEV before meeting with Pope Benedict XVI on Thursday (Dec. 16).

In a speech during his meeting with Younan, Benedict praised progress in Catholic-Lutheran dialogue but did not make any reference to the bishop’s Eucharist proposal.

“It is my hope that these ecumenical activities will provide fresh opportunities for Catholics and Lutherans to grow closer in their lives, their witness to the gospel, and their efforts to bring the light of Christ to all dimensions of society” the pope said.

The article is unclear as to whether the Pope was aware of the Lutheran bishop’s proposal about a Eucharist agreement. I wonder if the Lutherans had made their goal known to the Catholic Church leadership before announcing it publicly? That the Pope didn’t mention it makes me think that that proposal hadn’t been studied yet.

 

[JRKH]

Let us all pray for the success of discussions aimed at reconsiliation and reunification.

That said, I’m afraid that there is little chance that such a statement will be issued. This article is expressing the wish of the Lutheran leader, but had nothing to say from the Catholic side.
In order for the for such a breakthrough to be achieved, (lutheran communion to be accepted as valid) The Holy See would have to accept that the Lutheran Church has a valid priesthood. I can’t see this happening.
UNLESS - it were to occur in the same way as is now occurring with the Anglican/Episcopal community. That is, those Lutherans who wish to rejoin the Church yet retain their Lutheran liturgical practices might have Lutheran priests ordained into the Catholic Church priesthood to serve in such communities (ordinariates?).

Peace
James

 

[Dandelion_Wine]

from the article:

“Eucharistic hospitality,” means that Catholics would be able to receive Communion at Lutheran worship services, and Lutherans would be able to do the same at a Catholic Mass.

Can’t see that happening EVER unless being Lutheran means becoming Catholic.

 

[WantingUnity]

It’s my prayer that those who are protestant of any denomination will learn what true Catholicism is and what isn’t true - too many ideas are out there about what the church believes versus what the church REALLY believes. I know, I thought some of it myself until this past year.

I am hopeful that at least some of the Lutheran synods will reunite with the Catholic church. As issues of gay clergy become more and more pushed through in synods like ELCA, I see a stronger stance being taken in the more conservative synods such as the Wisconsin synod and the Missouri synod. This issue may either divide people within a synod or cause a synod to reevaluate it’s position in relation to the Catholic church. In searching the web one day I found a church in one of these conservative synods that is seeking to reunite with the Catholic church and seeking to have their pastors be recognized (probably not the right word) as priests of the Catholic church.

Does anyone know if there have been churches that have reunited with the Catholic church rather than just individuals (such as myself, I am in the RCIA program at my parish and waiting to be in full communion this Easter season)?

 

[CRBilardi]

Greetings,

I’m not sure if this adds anything meaningful to this thread, but I belong to a small, independent Lutheran synod that has Apostolic Succession hrough the Order of Corporate Reunion.

Not all Lutherans consider themselves to be Protestant – many of us lable ourselves as “Evangelical Catholics”. Were we to reunite with Rome, I guess we would be a Roman Catholic Church, Lutheran Rite.

Regards,
Chris Bilardi

 

[ConstantineTG]

from the article: Can’t see that happening EVER unless being Lutheran means becoming Catholic.

Maybe this is the first step, similar to Anglicans coming home

 

[ConstantineTG]

Greetings,

I’m not sure if this adds anything meaningful to this thread, but I belong to a small, independent Lutheran synod that has Apostolic Succession hrough the Order of Corporate Reunion.

Not all Lutherans consider themselves to be Protestant – many of us lable ourselves as “Evangelical Catholics”. Were we to reunite with Rome, I guess we would be a Roman Catholic Church, Lutheran Rite.

Regards,
Chris Bilardi

You’ll probably be just a 4th use of the Roman Rite, behind the Ordinary Form, Extraordinary Form, Anglican Use, then probably Lutheran Use?

 

[Dale_M]

I am hopeful that at least some of the Lutheran synods will reunite with the Catholic church. As issues of gay clergy become more and more pushed through in synods like ELCA, I see a stronger stance being taken in the more conservative synods such as the Wisconsin synod and the Missouri synod. This issue may either divide people within a synod or cause a synod to reevaluate it’s position in relation to the Catholic church.

I don’t think it would be possible for the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod or Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod to have a stronger stance against gay clergy than they already do. No means no, both on clergy and also on the acceptability of homosexual activity. So I wouldn’t look for that to be a cause of conversions to the Catholic Church, especially from WELS.

And the recent creation of a new Lutheran denomination in the US, by those unhappy with ELCA, suggests that the issue of gay clergy is not the only issue of importance. Those leaving ELCA were also not happy with aspects of LCMS and WELS such as no female clergy and a literal interpretation of the Bible.

However, as another member mentioned there are some Lutheran churches which are seeking union with Rome. I know we had a thread, a few months ago, about one such denomination called the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church. Here is the article on which the thread was based:
catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=37315

 

[WetCatechumen]

The idea of having a use of the Roman Rite named after a heretic appalls me.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Sure, as soon as the Lutherans acknowledge the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church with the Bishop of Rome as its head

 

[baylee]

Sure, as soon as the Lutherans acknowledge the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church with the Bishop of Rome as its head

Ding ding ding! Seriously…why not just break away from the heretical church and become Catholic?

 

[laszlo]

The Eucharistic Hospitality is a big movement among protestants, to receive communion in common services.

For Catholics the only occasion is that in interfaith marriage held in a Catholic Church with the permission of the local Ordinary the non catholic party may receive communion. Theologically it is not worse that if non practicing Catholics receive communion what happens many times in almost every churches.

The request of the Lutheran bishop almost certainly will be realized as a common declaration politely describing the differences related to the concept of transubstantiation and priesthood. The way of the unity will be like with the Anglicans, groups will be allowed to be united, and their pastor ordained as Catholic priests.

 

[timUDJHS84]

As a Lutheran PK (pastor’s kid), and also having attended a Jesuit High School - I think I may have a bit of an insight.

If I recall, the ELCA at one time allowed Catholics to partake Communion in their parishes. If that changed - I’m sorry. The biggest differences that I can remember between what is to be believed by Lutherans and Catholics about Holy Communion are:

1. Lutherans believe that the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ is “In, With, and Through” the bread/wafers and the wine.
2. Catholics believe that the bread/wafers and the wine are “transformed into the flesh and blood” of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It seems like its semantics, but in a true sense - Are the elements of the Holy Communion (that is, the bread and the wine) the body and blood of Our Savior?

I have always felt that to be a strange argument when we are to “Do this in remembrance of (Him).” We are to remember Him and His sacrifice for us. We are to eat of His “flesh” and drink His “blood” to bring us closer to Him, and quite literally take Him into our lives.

I agree that it would be impossible to allow the Lutheran clergy to become Catholic priests - for a myriad of reasons.

1. Celibacy, and chastity. The majority of Lutheran pastors are married, and therefore disqualified. Also - unfortunately - a large number of Lutheran pastors are openly practicing homosexuals. I know this because my father later in life came out as one, and I learned that there are hundreds more across the U.S.
2. The training and theological studies that they both undertook are vastly different. For instance, my father studied Theology under the Disciples of Christ church and he chose later to become a Lutheran pastor (partly because of the rampant homosexuality). As far as I know, Catholic priests can only attend a Catholic Divinity School. (Let me know if I’m wrong.)

Basically, until the question is resolved regarding what each Church’s teachings will be regarding the elements of Communion - there will never be a full exchange between both Catholics and Lutherans in this regard.

 

[thomasf]

Lutheran pastors lack the ability to affect the change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ, no matter what semantics you use. That ability was given to the Apostles, they passed it to their followers, and they passed it along within the catholic church, the church Jesus founded. When protestants split from the church, they lost that ability.

Also, communion means just that; you are IN communion with that church and what it teaches. If you do not agree with that church’s teaching, then you are not IN communion, and you shouldn’t be receiving in that church. Why would I, as a catholic, have ANY interest in going to a lutheran church that I don’t agree with and receiving their communion, which isn’t the body and blood of Christ (no matter what the argument is)? If I wanted to be lutheran I would join them and receive their communion. Likewise, any lutheran wishing to receive in a catholic church just needs to join the church and then they can receive. Because then they would be in agreement and in communion with the catholic church. If you don’t believe what catholics believe, why would you want to receive communion in that church?

And to take it a step further, what are you doing in a lutheran church if you’re catholic, and vice versa? If you’re catholic, go to mass. If you’re lutheran, go to your own church. I’m catholic and have no desire to attend a protestant service. And if for some reason I had to, I wouldn’t be receiving their communion.

You wanna be part of the catholic church? Join. You’re welcome to come home to Rome.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Lutheran pastors lack the ability to affect the change the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ, no matter what semantics you use. Also, communion means just that; you are IN communion with that church and what it teaches. If you do not agree with that churches teaching, then you are not IN communion, and you shouldn’t be receiving in that church. Why would I, as a catholic, have ANY interest in going to a lutheran church that I don’t agree with and receiving their communion, which isn’t the body and blood of Christ (no matter what the argument is)? If I wanted to be lutheran I would join them and receive their communion. Likewise, any lutheran wishing to receive in a catholic church** just needs to join the church and then they can receive. **Because then they would be in agreement and in communion with the catholic church. If you don’t believe what catholics believe, why would you want to receive communion in that church?

And to take it a step further, what are you doing in a lutheran church if you’re catholic, and vice versa? If you’re catholic, go to mass. If you’re lutheran, go to your own church. I’m catholic and have no desire to attend a protestant service. And if for some reason I had to, I wouldn’t be receiving their communion.

You wanna be part of the catholic church? Join.

Aren’t you missing RCIA and a couple sacraments?

 

[thomasf]

Aren’t you missing RCIA and a couple sacraments?

That’s where the whole joining the church part comes in.

 

[baylee]

As a Lutheran PK (pastor’s kid), and also having attended a Jesuit High School - I think I may have a bit of an insight.

If I recall, the ELCA at one time allowed Catholics to partake Communion in their parishes. If that changed - I’m sorry. The biggest differences that I can remember between what is to be believed by Lutherans and Catholics about Holy Communion are:

1. Lutherans believe that the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ is “In, With, and Through” the bread/wafers and the wine.
2. Catholics believe that the bread/wafers and the wine are “transformed into the flesh and blood” of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It seems like its semantics, but in a true sense - Are the elements of the Holy Communion (that is, the bread and the wine) the body and blood of Our Savior?

I have always felt that to be a strange argument when we are to “Do this in remembrance of (Him).” We are to remember Him and His sacrifice for us. We are to eat of His “flesh” and drink His “blood” to bring us closer to Him, and quite literally take Him into our lives.

I agree that it would be impossible to allow the Lutheran clergy to become Catholic priests - for a myriad of reasons.

1. Celibacy, and chastity. The majority of Lutheran pastors are married, and therefore disqualified. Also - unfortunately - a large number of Lutheran pastors are openly practicing homosexuals. I know this because my father later in life came out as one, and I learned that there are hundreds more across the U.S.
2. The training and theological studies that they both undertook are vastly different. For instance, my father studied Theology under the Disciples of Christ church and he chose later to become a Lutheran pastor (partly because of the rampant homosexuality). As far as I know, Catholic priests can only attend a Catholic Divinity School. (Let me know if I’m wrong.)

Basically, until the question is resolved regarding what each Church’s teachings will be regarding the elements of Communion - there will never be a full exchange between both Catholics and Lutherans in this regard.

I’m not sure whether you are saying that you believe that the host is truly His body and blood…especially with the quotation marks around “flesh” and “blood”. If you do not, then I would suggest reading towards the end of John’s Chapter 6. It is very clear that Jesus meant that literally as many disciples could not accept such a hard teaching…and left Him. The Eucharist is truly Jesus…in the Catholic Church (and I believe the Orthodox Church). Other churches can believe it all they want, but they do not have a valid, apostolic priesthood. Their bread is just that…bread.