Catholics and Methodists can learn from one another, pope says

[JosieN]

I am always a little confused with the Pope’s messages. Is the point of this to ask Methodists what the Catholics should do differently and get their opinion? To learn from another church you must assume they know something you don’t.

 

[Pulvis]

Actually quite a bit, if one can get past the issues of what separate us, and look at the issues which unite us.

We share a love of Scripture, and of Christ. We share one baptism. And for those who are baptized, we share the Sacrament of Matrimony. With many, we share a commitment to pro life and to working to help the poor.

With a number of Protestants, we share the most popular private devotion - the rosary. And with some, we share high liturgy - while there remains issues concerning priesthood. And with some we share our other Liturgy - the Liturgy of the Hours.

It is only a fool who thinks that someone cannot love God with their whole mind, their whole heart, and their whole soul, and others as themselves.

It also helps, on occasion, to remember that Christ was not a Christian. He was a Jew.

And yet they are still are not in full communion, they deny the Sacraments, and deny Apostolic succession, along with many other Doctrines.

And Yes, Our Lord was a Jew, of the linage of King David, to fulfill all of the prophesy concerning Him. But He established a new order, with both old and new Teachings, and empowered The Apostles to " [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." DRBO.ORG

This is the part I fail to understand in the modern ecumenism…why did we stop attempting to bring the protestants, the Jews, and other unbelievers into the fullness of the Church.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I don’t think the Catholic faith can by definition have anything to learn from any other faith. It is the faith Christ Himself established.

That said, can individual Catholics (or those from others faiths) learn from people outside their faith? Certainly. If I am a dour, unenthusiastic Catholic, I can learn from someone who has a greater zeal for Christ, despite not being Catholic (as an example). But this applies to all people, and has nothing to do with the specific religion of the person per se.

By addressing Methodists in this context, the implication seems to be that there is something explicit in the Methodist faith that we could learn from, and I have no idea what that is. I could likely learn a lot of things from Wesley, but I doubt theology not found in Catholic teaching is one of them.

 

[Tablefor9]

I am always a little confused with the Pope’s messages. Is the point of this to ask Methodists what the Catholics should do differently and get their opinion? To learn from another church you must assume they know something you don’t.

It might be that they know about sharing the love of God and the word of God: how to welcome others; how to evangelize; how to build community. Catholics throughout time have been good at these things, recently not as much. We can learn from others, if we are but humble enough to realize that we must do.

 

[Pulvis]

It might be that they know about sharing the love of God and the word of God: how to welcome others; how to evangelize; how to build community. Catholics throughout time have been good at these things, recently not as much. We can learn from others, if we are but humble enough to realize that we must do.

I would postulate that the loss of those particular methods you discuss are do in large part to the ideology that all religions lead to God which was one of the tenants prcessing from false interpretations of Vatican Council II. As far as welcoming and community, every Parish i have been a member of has done a good job with that.

 

[commenter]

I don’t think the Catholic faith can by definition have anything to learn from any other faith. It is the faith Christ Himself established.

That said, can individual Catholics (or those from others faiths) learn from people outside their faith? Certainly. If I am a dour, unenthusiastic Catholic, I can learn from someone who has a greater zeal for Christ, despite not being Catholic (as an example). But this applies to all people, and has nothing to do with the specific religion of the person per se.

By addressing Methodists in this context, the implication seems to be that there is something explicit in the Methodist faith that we could learn from, and I have no idea what that is. I could likely learn a lot of things from Wesley, but I doubt theology not found in Catholic teaching is one of them.

 

[mafh]

I’m thinking of all those great hymns that the Wesley’s gave us. Perhaps the Pope was thinking of that in the back of his mind.

Hark, the Harold Angels Sing
Lo, He Comes with Clouds Descending
Love Divine, All Love Excelling
Christ, whose Glory Fills the Sky

Thousands of wonderful hymns.

My favorite is from his brother, Charles:

O For a Thousand Tongues to Sing.

It was always hymn #1 in the United Methodust hymn book.

 

[otjm]

I am always a little confused with the Pope’s messages. Is the point of this to ask Methodists what the Catholics should do differently and get their opinion? To learn from another church you must assume they know something you don’t.

No, and not necessarily.

One can learn from example, such as the example of the love of Christ. Those who presume that Methodists (or Presbyterians, or Assembly of God, or etc.) do not love Christ because they are not members of the Catholic Church have not paid much attention to what the Church teaches about our separated brethren.

When one only focuses on what separates us, one can implicitly deny what unites us.

 

[otjm]

And yet they are still are not in full communion, they deny the Sacraments, and deny Apostolic succession, along with many other Doctrines.

And Yes, Our Lord was a Jew, of the linage of King David, to fulfill all of the prophesy concerning Him. But He established a new order, with both old and new Teachings, and empowered The Apostles to " [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." DRBO.ORG

This is the part I fail to understand in the modern ecumenism…why did we stop attempting to bring the protestants, the Jews, and other unbelievers into the fullness of the Church.

You obviously fail to understand what the Church teaches and practices about ecumenism.

Ecumenical actions between your parish members (with or without the pastor) are of the lowest and most minimal order in the rankings of all that the Church does. And where the real ecumenical dialogue takes place is between theologians of the Catholic Church and theologians of other denominations. Occasionally there is an advance; but because it is of little or no interest to most people, it makes little in the way of headlines.

And given 5 centuries of hardened positions on both sides, it is not going to go rapidly. That, however, does not mean that the work is wrong, or poorly done.

It is much like the split between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox; and that has well over 1,000 years of hardened hearts and minds. It goes forward at a glacial pace. But that is no reason to give up. John 17 still applies.

And by the way - no one has stopped; people come in very quietly, one by one, and I can attest to this having worked in RCIA for more than 20 years.

 

[anon67074017]

This is a good statement by the Pope. Protestants and Catholics can learn a lot from each other. We both seek Christ’s truth. God bless Pope Francis.

 

[Tablefor9]

I would postulate that the loss of those particular methods you discuss are do in large part to the ideology that all religions lead to God which was one of the tenants prcessing from false interpretations of Vatican Council II. As far as welcoming and community, every Parish i have been a member of has done a good job with that.

I think you are absolutely right about what (or when) caused the problems; I’m glad you’ve had good experiences

 

[Emperor_Markus]

I do not see what can be learned from Methodists (or any Protestants, for that matter). They are not on equal footing with the Catholic church.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I do not see what can be learned from Methodists (or any Protestants, for that matter). They are not on equal footing with the Catholic church.

I’ve met protestants who are more Christlike than many Catholics.

We can learn from them.

Jim

 

[Peebo]

I do not see what can be learned from Methodists (or any Protestants, for that matter). They are not on equal footing with the Catholic church.

They may not be on “equal footing” with the Catholic Church…but quite a few Protestants I know are on a much “higher footing” in practicing their Christian faith than some Catholics…maybe that would be a good place to start learning.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

They may not be on “equal footing” with the Catholic Church…but quite a few Protestants I know are on a much “higher footing” in practicing their Christian faith than some Catholics…maybe that would be a good place to start learning.

And I would say also much beloved by Christ.

 

[Peebo]

And I would say also much beloved by Christ.

 

[JosieN]

They may not be on “equal footing” with the Catholic Church…but quite a few in practicing their Christian faith than some Catholics…maybe that would be a good place to start learning.

If Protestants are better at practicing their Christian faith, why not help those in your own Church who do not practice it as well as the Protestants you know who are on a much “higher footing” instead of going outside the Church to get advice?

I wonder about all these people so anxious to learn from the Protestants. are they not getting enough from their own Catholic religion and want to experience the faith in a Protestant way, or do they not agree with all the Catholic beliefs and teachings and want to adopt some of theirs? I think we should focus on improving from within the Church and not go outside it for advice. I believe it will only weakened us. We must remain strong.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If Protestants are better at practicing their Christian faith, why not help those in your own Church who do not practice it as well as the Protestants you know who are on a much “higher footing” instead of going outside the Church to get advice?

I wonder about all these people so anxious to learn from the Protestants. are they not getting enough from their own Catholic religion and want to experience the faith in a Protestant way, or do they not agree with all the Catholic beliefs and teachings and want to adopt some of theirs? I think we should focus on improving from within the Church and not go outside it for advice. I believe it will only weakened us. We must remain strong.

I wonder why Catholics get all jealous and anxious over the fact that there are Protestants who are very good Christians ?

This reality doesn’t take anything away from Catholics and we should be happy for our Protestant Brothers and Sisters.

Jim

 

[JosieN]

I wonder why Catholics get all jealous and anxious over the fact that there are Protestants who are very good Christians ?

This reality doesn’t take anything away from Catholics and we should be happy for our Protestant Brothers and Sisters.

Jim

I am happy for them, but I am even more happy for those individuals who have the courage to stick with the teachings and guidance of the Traditional Catholic Church. Jesus Christ built this Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew

16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I believe that there are two topics here that are being merged into one. The first one is that there is an ecumenical structure in place, where high levels of people in the Roman Church and in other Christian communities (and in this instance, the Methodists) that have been in dialogue for years, sometimes decades. Their agenda is to not only have conversations but many times produce working documents about the theology and practice of the two denominations, where there is agreement and where there is disagreement.

For example, the Lutherans. Not only have the people been dialogue, but they have actually agreed upon marking the 500th anniversary of the Reformation. There is a Liturgy that has been produced, which, in my understanding, will be used throughout Europe and hopefully North America for the entire year, 2016-2017.

When the Pope met with the Methodist representatives, he was affirming all the work that has been done on that high level of ecumenism.

And just an addendum to the high level work, hopefully the dialogues are taking place in local communities, using the documents that have been approved. So that means that if there is an ecumenical organization in your area, the local Catholic Bishop and the local Methodist Bishop can meet, learn together, pray together, and have discussions that refer back to those agreed upon statements.

Now. The second discussion seems to be coming from people in the pew, as it were, who aren’t aware that the Catholic Church is in discussions with MANY non-Catholic faith communities. What is there to learn from each other? Lots. Can we pray together? We do it all the time.

Perhaps knowing that this is already going on might help us learn from each other here. And I hope you realize that Pope Francis is VERY open and supportive of these ventures. He has met with leaders (Russian Orthodox to name one) and representatives in an on-going effort to keep open the doors of ecumenical (and interfaith) relationships.