Catholics and Muslims worship the same God?

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According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841, Catholics and Muslims ‘‘adore the one, merciful God.’’

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]

Although I would certainly not disagree that there are some in the Muslim community who might attain salvation through Christ, I think that Islam (like Mormonism) degrades the image of God by rejecting the Trinity:

*“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them,” (Quran 5:73, Yusuf Ali).
*
Since the Trinity is the true Biblical doctrine of God, how can the Muslims who deny the Trinity “adore the one, merciful God”? Furthermore in Christianity, Jesus is divine in nature while the Quran says the opposite:

They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah’s is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things," (Quran 5:17, Pickthal).

In conclusion, I think paragraph 841 of the Catechism needs to be revised, though I look forward to hearing your views
 
YES!
Christians AND Muslims worship the SAME God. What’s the problem? We have different understandings of that SAME God. One is correct, the other is wrong. Now that we have THAT established, let’s see what the Vatican says:The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims . They adore the one God, liv-
ing and subsisting in himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and
earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even
his inscrutable decrees,just as Abraham,with whom the faith of Islam takes pleas-
ure in linking itself, submitted to God. (Nostra Aetate 3)
As a Catholic, I am proud to say that Muslims believe in and worship the same God
as Catholics do, but it is the lack of belief in the Trinity, Jesus being God, etc, com-
bined with believing instead that Muhammad is a prophet , that the Qur’an is better
than the Bible, etc, etc, etc, that is the main issue.

Islam is still within the same Abrahamic Family as Judaism and Christianity is,
worshiping the SAME One God who came to our father Abraham. It is Mormon-
ism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other such groups that have stepped outside of
the Abrahamic Circle.

^
/ الله
/ Allah,
/ Same God,
/ Different Views,
/ Only One Is Correct,
/ Let us talk about THAT. \
 
I would like to think that was the case, however one must be empathetic and consider the perspective of the other faith. In Islam, the Quran is the word-for-word correct, perfect and infallible word of Allah of which only the Hadiths can be used to interpret them. The Quran, as aforementioned, states that the Trinity is a sheer heresy.

Like many of the thousands of religions across the globe, from Shinto to Hinduism, the Muslims could be interpreted as worshipping a false god. I’m not trying to be dogmatic or hostile here, I would never say this to a fellow Muslim (I’d focus more on building links), but the fact of the matter is that Muslims regard the Quran as the word-for-word correct, infallible word of Allah, meaning that everything must be believed.

In the Quran, it is stated that Allah actually schemes against non-believers. The Arabic word for scheme is makara, meaning deceit. Thus Allah is deceitful to people not of the Islamic faith.

*“And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.” Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:54] *

What kind of a god does that?! What a horrid title, ‘‘best of the schemers’’! I mean look at Jesus, Buddha, Amaterasu, Báb, Bahá’u’lláh, Krishna…even if one did not believe in their divinity, no one could deny that they were such friendly and loving people! And Allah…well all I can say is that if I were Muslim, I’d be so scared of Allah and just by acknowledging this fact, I can see why Muslims tend to be so orthodox.

So no…since Muslims will never revise their scriptures (without breaking the Shahada, which makes one a Muslim in the first place), I cannot acknowledge that our God is the same as the god the Muslims believe in.

Our God does not deceive, our God does not scheme against non-believers…our God, Jesus Christ, loves everyone, believers and non-believers alike
 
That’s what Vatican II’s Decree on Non-Christian Religions says (from whence it was taken in to the modern Catechism), and that’s all I’ll directly say on the question.

Having been a Muslim, the Muslim begins every prayer with the Fatihah (and repeats it with every raka’a, of which there are 17 repetitions of this prayer minimum every day in the Shafi’i school, not more than one or two more or less than that in any other school, depending on whether witr is considered obligatory), which concludes with the statement, “guide us on the straight way, do not let us go astray as the Christians, or incur your anger as the Jews”. “Jews” and “Christians” aren’t explicitly mentioned, but it is the universal tradition of Islam that those who are spoken of as “going astray” and “incurring anger” are Jews and Christians, to the point where “Jews” and “Christians” are added as supplied (italicized) words in several English versions of the Koran. Not to mention the hundreds of verses condemning as idolaters any who believe God is a Trinity, and explicitly stating that Allah could never be trinitarian. Also is stated that “Allah loves those who love him and hates unbelievers”. John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wrote that “God is love.”

It’s much like starting every prayer with the pledge, “Allah, I’ll worship you, and ask you accept my worship, only so long as you’re not the god of the Jews or Christians”. Such prayers are likely answered.
 
The spirit of anti-Christ is that which denies the divinity of Jesus and even now (in Paul’s time, and to this day). This would suggest that Muslims are led by the spirit of anti-Christ.
 
All Abrahamic groups, which include deviations from the understanding of the Christian Trinity like Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostals, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and even Arianists worship the same God. Their common shared adoration and reverence for God the Father is enough to negate their denial or misunderstanding of the other two persons.
 
VanSensei said:
All Abrahamic groups, which include deviations from the understanding of the Christian Trinity like Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostals, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and even Arianists worship the same God. Their common shared adoration and reverence for God the Father is enough to negate their denial or misunderstanding of the other two persons.
Click to expand...
Eh… Mormons are way different. Their theology is borderline polytheistic. There’s a reason that Catholics (and many Protestants) don’t consider them Christian.

To the OP:

The Jews also deny the Trinity. Does that mean they don’t worship the same God as us either?
 
1 John 2

21 - I have not written to you as to them that know not the truth, but as to them that know it: and that no lie is of the truth. 22 - Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son. 23 - Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also.

CCC 841 could have easily said that Christians and Muslims worship the “same” God…but the word “same” is curiously absent… why? Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
 
Kurama said:
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841, Catholics and Muslims ‘‘adore the one, merciful God.’’

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]

Although I would certainly not disagree that there are some in the Muslim community who might attain salvation through Christ, I think that Islam (like Mormonism) degrades the image of God by rejecting the Trinity:

*“They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them,” (Quran 5:73, Yusuf Ali).
*
Since the Trinity is the true Biblical doctrine of God, how can the Muslims who deny the Trinity “adore the one, merciful God”? Furthermore in Christianity, Jesus is divine in nature while the Quran says the opposite:

They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah’s is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things," (Quran 5:17, Pickthal).

In conclusion, I think paragraph 841 of the Catechism needs to be revised, though I look forward to hearing your views
Click to expand...
Kurama,
  1. This statement in the Catechism comes from the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, and thus will not be revised.
  2. Of course Islam degrades the Image of the true God by not accepting the Trinity. But that does not mean that somehow they worship a different one all together. Muslims worship the God of Abraham, although in a veiled form behind much false information.
  3. The Jews in the Old Testament, including the Bible figures also knew nothing about the Trinity, that does not mean it was a different God, it just means they did not yet know what he was fully like.
  4. There is only one God. When somebody cries out to God, they are calling out to the God that is. Muslims worship the God of Abraham, although they do so in a veiled way, as they base themselves off the promises God made to Abraham.
  5. The fact that Christians and Muslims worship the same God does not mean that Islam is true. Islam is false and filled with falsity, but the fact remains that the God they adore is the same God that Christians do. They are simply doing it in the wrong way, with the wrong religion.
 
concretecamper said:
1 John 2

21 - I have not written to you as to them that know not the truth, but as to them that know it: and that no lie is of the truth. 22 - Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son. 23 - Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also.

CCC 841 could have easily said that Christians and Muslims worship the “same” God…but the word “same” is curiously absent… why? Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
Click to expand...
It is more than a little unfair to apply this to Muslims today. St. John is very clearly writing in this his epistle about his struggle with the gnostics and other heretics within the Christian community. I don’t believe we can apply this to those of another religion several hundred years removed from any contact with the Church, given the teachings of the Church on this manner.
 
Kurama said:
I would like to think that was the case, however one must be empathetic and consider the perspective of the other faith. In Islam, the Quran is the word-for-word correct, perfect and infallible word of Allah of which only the Hadiths can be used to interpret them. The Quran, as aforementioned, states that the Trinity is a sheer heresy.

Like many of the thousands of religions across the globe, from Shinto to Hinduism, the Muslims could be interpreted as worshipping a false god. I’m not trying to be dogmatic or hostile here, I would never say this to a fellow Muslim (I’d focus more on building links), but the fact of the matter is that Muslims regard the Quran as the word-for-word correct, infallible word of Allah, meaning that everything must be believed.

In the Quran, it is stated that Allah actually schemes against non-believers. The Arabic word for scheme is makara, meaning deceit. Thus Allah is deceitful to people not of the Islamic faith.

*“And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.” Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:54] *

What kind of a god does that?! What a horrid title, ‘‘best of the schemers’’! I mean look at Jesus, Buddha, Amaterasu, Báb, Bahá’u’lláh, Krishna…even if one did not believe in their divinity, no one could deny that they were such friendly and loving people! And Allah…well all I can say is that if I were Muslim, I’d be so scared of Allah and just by acknowledging this fact, I can see why Muslims tend to be so orthodox.

So no…since Muslims will never revise their scriptures (without breaking the Shahada, which makes one a Muslim in the first place), I cannot acknowledge that our God is the same as the god the Muslims believe in.

Our God does not deceive, our God does not scheme against non-believers…our God, Jesus Christ, loves everyone, believers and non-believers alike
Click to expand...
You are making two common mistakes here. 1. You can’t say “Muslims _________”. As with Christianity there are many different schools of theology in Islam, many with very serious divides. Some schools take the Quran more literally than others, and some have more of a focus on teachings and traditions that have been passed down. (Sound familiar?). The second mistake is that you are reading an English translation. So much is lost in translation that unless you have a Muslim helping you understand each passage in question, you really can’t presume to know the theological meaning.

Ultimately though they do worship the same god. It’s a fact that both religions acknowledge. (Muslims refer to Christians, Jews, and themselves as ‘People of the Book’, a phrase that I think is actually very pretty). Think of it this way, Jews also reject the trinity. Actually, Jews reject almost everything that makes Christianity what it is, but they still worship the same god you do.
 
TRH1292 said:
It is more than a little unfair to apply this to Muslims today. St. John is very clearly writing in this his epistle about his struggle with the gnostics and other heretics within the Christian community. I don’t believe we can apply this to those of another religion several hundred years removed from any contact with the Church, given the teachings of the Church on this manner.
Click to expand...
It is unfair only if one wants to be politically correct. St John’s words are pretty clear. What is your annswer to why CCC 841 omits “same”.
 
It coiuld be easily said that semantic somersaults are being performed by both sides.
 
All I am questioning is why the word “same” is not used. Don’t you agree that if the word “same” was used I could not debate an alternate meaning?
 
VanSensei said:
All Abrahamic groups, which include deviations from the understanding of the Christian Trinity like Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostals, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and even Arianists worship the same God. Their common shared adoration and reverence for God the Father is enough to negate their denial or misunderstanding of the other two persons.
Click to expand...
ehh(!)…
Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses actually took a radical step outside of the Abrahamic
Circle, being polytheists. Arianism, unless I’m wrong, takes the polytheistic step as well.

I think only the Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostals still belong to the family.
 
The devil is in the details.

The aim of the catechism in that passage is not to make a definitive statement about who God is, but a diplomatic outreach to other people of faith.

Definitely, the closest religions to Catholicism, outside of Protestants and the various proto-Christian religions, would be the various forms of Jewish and Islamic faiths.

The catechism is saying no more and no less than that.
 
concretecamper said:
It is unfair only if one wants to be politically correct. St John’s words are pretty clear. What is your annswer to why CCC 841 omits “same”.
Click to expand...
Because it is not required. If there were two or more different gods, then the word would be needed. Since there is only one God, the word “same” is redundant. Either Muslims worship the one God (imperfectly, like the Jews), or they worship a non-God.

The Catechism is explicit that Muslims “adore the one, merciful God”. Do you know any other gods they might be worshipping?

rossum
 
One can argue this, but Catholic teaching is unambiguous that we all worship the same God. Even when some one utters a profane oath using “God”, it is profane because there is only one God. In this we can see that use or misuse of who God is in no way alters the Almighty one bit. Thus, since Catholics are not polytheist, of course we believe we all worship the same God. The only argument that could be made is whether or not Islam qualifies as worship, not if there are two Gods. I find that route to be thin.
 
concretecamper said:
It is unfair only if one wants to be politically correct. St John’s words are pretty clear. What is your annswer to why CCC 841 omits “same”.
Click to expand...
I don’t think I owe you an explanation, as the magisterium is clear on this point. I used the word same because the OP did. But I just have easily could have said that Muslims, together with us, adore the one true God, man’s judge on the last day.

You are not the Church and do not simply get to deny statements of Ecumenical Council’s to meet your own fancy.
 
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