Catholics and Muslims worship the same God?

[TRH1292]

ehh(!)…
Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses actually took a radical step outside of the Abrahamic
Circle, being polytheists. Arianism, unless I’m wrong, takes the polytheistic step as well.

I think only the Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostals still belong to the family.

Jehovah’s Witnesses and Arian’s are not Polytheistic.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Jehovah’s Witnesses and Arian’s are not Polytheistic.

I honestly did think at least the JW are polytheists because they impose a difference in
John 1:1 the words “Ton Theon” (The God; Father) and “theos”, the latter referring to the
Logos, and is actually an adjective referring to the nature of the subject, but the JW use
that to prove that Jesus is a lesser god. Was that not the same position as the Arians
also (PLEASE correct me if needed!).

 

[concretecamper]

I don’t think I owe you an explanation, as the magisterium is clear on this point. I used the word same because the OP did. But I just have easily could have said that Muslims, together with us, adore the one true God, man’s judge on the last day.

You are not the Church and do not simply get to deny statements of Ecumenical Council’s to meet your own fancy.

I wonder if you surveyed people and asked them…“do you belong to the ONE true church”…you would get RC, Orthodox, Lutherans, and who else know who answering in the affirmative…yet they belong to distinctively different Churches.

 

[concretecamper]

I believe the passage is clear in that I do not have to assume anything besides the words themselves.

 

[TRH1292]

I honestly did think at least the JW are polytheists because they impose a difference in
John 1:1 the words “Ton Theon” (The God; Father) and “theos”, the latter referring to the
Logos, and is actually an adjective referring to the nature of the subject, but the JW use
that to prove that Jesus is a lesser god. Was that not the same position as the Arians
also (PLEASE correct me if needed!).

It was my understanding that the JW did not see Jesus Christ as a God to be worshiped at all.
The Arians saw Jesus as somewhat of an exalted Angel also. Something that had not always existed, but was created by the Father.

 

[TRH1292]

I wonder if you surveyed people and asked them…“do you belong to the ONE true church”…you would get RC, Orthodox, Lutherans, and who else know who answering in the affirmative…yet they belong to distinctively different Churches.

Catholic Church teaching isn’t based off of taking survey’s.

 

[M1Garand]

I used to believe that Muslims worship the same God but after I read the Koran I no long believe this. In fact it is illogical to even ascribe this to a belief, it is a matter of absolute. You cannot deny the Son without denying the Father. They deny the Son so they deny the Father. The god of Islam calls them to attack, kill and cheat non-believers. This is the antithesis of the God that sent his merciful Son do die for all humanity.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

It was my understanding that the JW did not see Jesus Christ as a God to be worshiped at all.
The Arians saw Jesus as somewhat of an exalted Angel also. Something that had not always existed, but was created by the Father.

I am pretty sure that JW do see Jesus as >A< god, but not the same as God, but you’re
right I believe, they do not worship Jesus. As for the Arians, I could have sworn that Arius
(from whom the Arians come) taught that Jesus was a lesser god, a demigod, believing in
the Mormon-Version of the Trinity. Both groups do believe Jesus was created, but still god
with a lowercase “g”.

 

[rossum]

I used to believe that Muslims worship the same God but after I read the Koran I no long believe this. In fact it is illogical to even ascribe this to a belief, it is a matter of absolute. You cannot deny the Son without denying the Father. They deny the Son so they deny the Father. The god of Islam calls them to attack, kill and cheat non-believers. This is the antithesis of the God that sent his merciful Son do die for all humanity.

Lets try that in a slightly different key:

I used to believe that Jews worship the same God but after I read the Tanakh I no long believe this. In fact it is illogical to even ascribe this to a belief, it is a matter of absolute. You cannot deny the Son without denying the Father. They deny the Son so they deny the Father. The god of Judaism calls them to attack, kill and cheat non-believers. This is the antithesis of the God that sent his merciful Son do die for all humanity.

Jews deny the Trinity. They deny that Jesus was the Messiah; at least Muslims acknowledge that He was a prophet and will return a second time. The God of the Tanakh does order a lot of killing: Amalekites, Canaanites, Midianites etc.

Your points apply to Jews as well as to Moslems. Do Jews worship the same God as Christians or not?

rossum

 

[M1Garand]

Lets try that in a slightly different key:

I used to believe that Jews worship the same God but after I read the Tanakh I no long believe this. In fact it is illogical to even ascribe this to a belief, it is a matter of absolute. You cannot deny the Son without denying the Father. They deny the Son so they deny the Father. The god of Judaism calls them to attack, kill and cheat non-believers. This is the antithesis of the God that sent his merciful Son do die for all humanity.

Jews deny the Trinity. They deny that Jesus was the Messiah; at least Muslims acknowledge that He was a prophet and will return a second time. The God of the Tanakh does order a lot of killing: Amalekites, Canaanites, Midianites etc.

Your points apply to Jews as well as to Moslems. Do Jews worship the same God as Christians or not?

rossum

Have you read the Koran my friend? Have you read the Bible? Do you have an awareness that Christians are the new Israel and Christ’s death and resurrection is the fulfillment of the covenant with mankind for salvation that is through Jews? Islam did not exist for almost 700 years after these events and it professes to be a further revelation of truth through a person identified as Mohammad. They reject the descendants of Abraham and the Word made flesh.

As for Jews who today with full knowledge reject Christ then I would direct you to the below:

5Thomas saith to him: Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

7If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and you have seen him.

John 14.6

 

[M1Garand]

Oh please don’t listen to me I am no authority. I am a lowly sinful person and a poor witness for Christ. I am only worth of perdition and the rot of the grave.

I take issue with the suicidal ecumenical movement in the Church that flies in the face of both revealed truth of scripture, previous Popes, and logic.

 

[pnewton]

Oh please don’t listen to me I am no authority. I am a lowly sinful person and a poor witness for Christ. I am only worth of perdition and the rot of the grave.

I take issue with the suicidal ecumenical movement in the Church that flies in the face of both revealed truth of scripture, previous Popes, and logic.

I don’t think the Holy Spirit is suicidal. Catholics need to keep their faith in the Almighty not “lean onto their own understanding.” We always need to remember that we are the students. I find there to be an undeniable logic int the Catholic Church’s position.

 

[rossum]

Have you read the Koran my friend?

Yes:

In the name of God, the compassionate, the merciful.
Praise be to God, the Lord of the Worlds.
The compassionate, the merciful.
Master of Judgement Day.
You alone we worship, and to You alone we pray for help.
Guide us to the straight path.
The path of those whom You have favoured.
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray.

Sura 1

Have you read the Bible?

Yes. I will admit to skipping over some of the lists of begats, too boring.

You shall love your neighbour as yourself (Matthew 22:39)

Have you read the Tripitaka?

Do you have an awareness that Christians are the new Israel and Christ’s death and resurrection is the fulfillment of the covenant with mankind for salvation that is through Jews?

I am aware that some Christians believe this. I am not Christian; look at the top right of my posts.

Islam did not exist for almost 700 years after these events and it professes to be a further revelation of truth through a person identified as Mohammad. They reject the descendants of Abraham and the Word made flesh.

Christianity did not exist until 500 years after the Buddha. Why do the dates have an impact on the truth?

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

I can quote scripture too:

[The Buddha said:] Monks, this is the one and only way for the purification of beings, for overcoming sorrow and lamentation, for the complete destruction of pain and distress, for attainment of the Noble Path, and for the realization of nirvana. (emphasis added)

– Maha-satipatthana sutta, Digha Nikaya 22

I too have “one way” in my scriptures. Shall we agree to drop the duelling scriptures? We are not discussing scripture, but the attitude of the Catholic Church to Muslims.

rossum

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

When the definition of God between two faiths hopelessy contradicts they cannot be said to be worshipping the same God. muslims deny jesus is God and in that act of denying Jesus as God they deny the whole of whom God is. Catholics want to be worshipping the same God but I feel they cannot justify how that is the case.

 

[M1Garand]

Christianity did not exist until 500 years after the Buddha. Why do the dates have an impact on the truth?

Because Christ was the final revelation and there are no others after him. He gave the charge to his apostles to go forth and preach the good news and build a church. Any other revelation is not in keeping with this position and is illegitimate.

The Koran is rife with all kinds of violence toward unbelievers(non-Muslims and in the English version of the Koran circulated the side notes specifically say Christians and Jews). One paragraph of the Koran does not follow the other. You have to read the Koran to understand its context. Mercy of Allah is only for Muslims, no one else. In contrast Christ a fortiori the God of Abraham is mercy is poured out for all mankind including Buddhists and Muslims. We are called to act like Christ and treat our brother(believer and non-believer) without exception like Christ would. For examples of this read the Gospels.

The Church’s position before the Catechism published in the 1990s toward the Muslims was much different.

As an aside: I do not find Buddhist practice wholly at odds with Christianity. There is practice in Buddhism that can be applied to many things. I do not think any Buddhist would ascribe absolute truth to any statement–to do so would be, well, not Buddhist like. The truth is there is no truth–well except for the four noble truths of the Buddha which are probably an illusion.

 

[rossum]

When the definition of God between two faiths hopelessy contradicts they cannot be said to be worshipping the same God. muslims deny jesus is God and in that act of denying Jesus as God they deny the whole of whom God is. Catholics want to be worshipping the same God but I feel they cannot justify how that is the case.

Jews also deny that Jesus is God. Jews deny the Trinity. Do Jews worship the same God as Christians?

rossum

 

[rossum]

Because Christ was the final revelation and there are no others after him. He gave the charge to his apostles to go forth and preach the good news and build a church. Any other revelation is not in keeping with this position and is illegitimate.

Hardly “final” since, according to Christians He will come again and complete His work.

The Koran is rife with all kinds of violence toward unbelievers(non-Muslims and in the English version of the Koran circulated the side notes specifically say Christians and Jews). One paragraph of the Koran does not follow the other. You have to read the Koran to understand its context. Mercy of Allah is only for Muslims, no one else. In contrast Christ a fortiori the God of Abraham is mercy is poured out for all mankind including Buddhists and Muslims. We are called to act like Christ and treat our brother(believer and non-believer) without exception like Christ would. For examples of this read the Gospels.

Have you read the Old Testament? The Amalekites were all killed, men women and children. Canaanites were killed, men women and children. A few female children were allowed to live as slaves when the rest of the Midianites were killed. Firstborn Egyptians were killed. How many children and unborn drowned in Noah’s flood? The Christian God has a lot of deaths, direct and indirect, to answer for. The Jewish God, the Christian God and the Moslem God are all the same God: the Abrahamic God. The Catholic Church is correct in this.

As an aside: I do not find Buddhist practice wholly at odds with Christianity. There is practice in Buddhism that can be applied to many things. I do not think any Buddhist would ascribe absolute truth to any statement–to do so would be, well, not Buddhist like. The truth is there is no truth–well except for the four noble truths of the Buddha which are probably an illusion.

Agreed. There is much in common in the practices of the two religions. Their theories are very different however.

rossum

 

[concretecamper]

Round and round the mulberry bush…

 

[concretecamper]

Catholic Church teaching isn’t based off of taking survey’s.

:banghead:

 

[Reuben_J]

It was between God and the Devil actually. If Muslims do not worship God then they must be worshipping the Devil, the anti-thesis of God. The Church eventually decided that they worship God, rightly or wrongly.

Having coming out with this stance, it is significant that the Church does not say anything about how they do it. Catholics are permitted therefore to think that Muslims are worshipping the same God as them but for all we know, they are thinking that they are worshipping the same God. This is because from the Catholic perspective, their belief is riddled with heresies, half-truth and downright untruth.

The Islamic denial of the crucifixion is very anti-Christ. Perhaps this is demonstrated graphically by the movie, ‘The Passion of the Christ’, when the devil was utterly destroyed and devastated when Jesus eventually died on the cross. Not that we take the movie as the official teaching of the Church but rather as a tool to help us to visualize how Jesus’ death was Satan utmost disappointment.To God, the crucifixion is a victory and that is why the Devil just could not stand it. This does not mean that the Devil will not stop working in trying to deceive those that he can into believing that Jesus did not die on the cross so that they will not receive salvation brought about by the sacrifice of God’s only Son.

The way of the Devil is through subtle deceit. It makes it even more dangerous for them to say that Jesus is a prophet and come back on the last day but yet deny the crucifixion which only matters for our salvation.