Catholics and Non-Catholics alike(m)

[Modestly_Anne]

When you die and stand before God, what will your answer be as to why you should be allowed into Heaven?

Will it be something along the lines of…

"Jesus Christ, died on the cross and paid the full price for my sins with his body and blood which was His free gift of salvation for me which I accepted "

Or will it be more along the lines of…

“I accepted Jesus, love and served God and followed the rules of The Church as best I could?”

Or something completely different.

Can you explain why your answer would be whatever it is.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

When you die and stand before God, what will your answer be as to why you should be allowed into Heaven?

Will it be something along the lines of…

"Jesus Christ, died on the cross and paid the full price for my sins with his body and blood which was His free gift of salvation for me which I accepted "

Or will it be more along the lines of…

“I accepted Jesus, love and served God and followed the rules of The Church as best I could?”

Or something completely different.

Can you explain why your answer would be whatever it is.

Neither. It’s Matthew 25:32 and following.

 

[Publisher]

I doubt I’ll be able to say much of anything…I will stand in awe and kneel at His feet.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

Neither. It’s Matthew 25:32 and following.

So your answer is that you won’t need to answer to God and that it’s your Works of Mercy that will have you seated on his right with the rest of the sheep.

So if you’ve committed a mortal sin, just before death, that won’t matter etc. or you’d just end up with the Goats?

I’ll rephrase my question. If you HAD to answer God say HE singles you out when He’s seperating the Goats from the Sheep, what would you say?

 

[Modestly_Anne]

So you’re saying you’d answer both, which was basically what my second scenario was. That you accepted Jesus and His Free Gift AND followed the teachings of His Church.

 

[William_Pitts]

I doubt I’ll be able to say much of anything…I will stand in awe and kneel at His feet.

I agree. If I did say anything it would be a plea for mercy, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner”

 

[TimothyH]

One is faith. The other is faithfullness, AKA the fullness of faith.

You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works. (James 2:22)

They are more than just linked or related. The are one and the same. The latter is simply the fullness of the former. The latter is the completion of the former. The Bible says that anyone who doesn’t believe this is an ignoramus.

Why should I be let into heaven? Because Christ died on the cross for me, a sinner.

And it might be a little presumptuous but I have this wonderful vision, hope really, that having recieved the Eucharist, I might be be invited to stand in confidence before the throne with other’s so prepared.

-Tim-

 

[Evan]

I won’t have to answer, I’ll let my lawyer do the answering for me.

He’s the best–> My lawyer, my advocate, that would be the Holy Spirit :angel1: THE advocate sent by Jesus after the resurrection and received by me at confirmation!!

No better advocate when going before the just judge.:aok:

 

[Godfollower]

So your answer is that you won’t need to answer to God and that it’s your Works of Mercy that will have you seated on his right with the rest of the sheep.

So if you’ve committed a mortal sin, just before death, that won’t matter etc. or you’d just end up with the Goats?

I’ll rephrase my question. If you HAD to answer God say HE singles you out when He’s seperating the Goats from the Sheep, what would you say?

So you’re saying you’d answer both, which was basically what my second scenario was. That you accepted Jesus and His Free Gift AND followed the teachings of His Church.

No.

Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity. Every one therefore that heareth these my words, and doth them, shall be likened to a wise man that built his house upon a rock, And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell not, for it was founded on a rock.

And every one that heareth these my words, and doth them not, shall be like a foolish man that built his house upon the sand, And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall thereof.

Matthew 7:21-27.

And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in: Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

Matthew 25:31-46.

To put it another way: falling to your knees and saying “I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior” is (A) a human work that cannot merit salvation; and (B) insufficient to ensure being taken into Heaven at the last judgment. How do we know this? Because Jesus Himself said so.

 

[Godfollower]

(Continued)

It is often said by certain Protestant groups that “we are saved by faith alone.” That is incorrect. Those of us who make it into Heaven will be there by grace alone; we have no right to enter Heaven, because we do not deserve it. People who make it to Heaven will be there only because God in His infinite mercy has chosen to allow it, despite our many faults.

But He has told us what He wants us to do to get into Heaven. It’s right there, in the Gospels.

And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God, with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment. And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.

Mark 12:29-31.

But merely declaring that love isn’t enough:

And behold a certain lawyer stood up, tempting him, and saying, Master, what must I do to possess eternal life? But he said to him: What is written in the law? how readest thou? He answering, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said to him: Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. But he willing to justify himself, said to Jesus: And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering, said: A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, who also stripped him, and having wounded him went away, leaving him half dead.

And it chanced, that a certain priest went down the same way: and seeing him, passed by. In like manner also a Levite, when he was near the place and saw him, passed by. But a certain Samaritan being on his journey, came near him; and seeing him, was moved with compassion. And going up to him, bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine: and setting him upon his own beast, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And the next day he took out two pence, and gave to the host, and said: Take care of him; and whatsoever thou shalt spend over and above, I, at my return, will repay thee. Which of these three, in thy opinion, was neighbour to him that fell among the robbers? But he said: He that shewed mercy to him. And Jesus said to him: Go, and do thou in like manner.

Luke 10:25-37.

Salvation isn’t easy. We all stumble on the way. “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!” Matthew 7:13-14. As the Bible tells us, merely believing in Jesus isn’t enough; after all, even the demons believe in Jesus. If we believe in Jesus but fail to do His commands – which the Bible tells us requires actually doing things for our fellow man – then our faith has no power to save.

What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him? And if a brother or sister be naked, and want daily food: And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit? So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? And in like manner also Rahab the harlot, was not she justified by works, receiving the messengers, and sending them out another way?

For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.

James 2:14-26.

Come judgment day, I hope I will be able to say something to the effect of, “Lord, I tried to do Your will, and I know I fell short. Please have mercy on me, a sinner, and welcome me into Your Kingdom.”

 

[Modestly_Anne]

I won’t have to answer, I’ll let my lawyer do the answering for me.

He’s the best–> My lawyer, my advocate, that would be the Holy Spirit :angel1: THE advocate sent by Jesus after the resurrection and** received by me at confirmation!!**

No better advocate when going before the just judge.:aok:

Why would you have to wait for Confirmation to receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit works in the lives of all who have been baptized and Christians.

Are you a Convert that was baptized and confirmed at the same time?

Romans 8:9 shows to belong to Christ you must have the Spirit in you for without the spirit you do not belong to Christ… “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

Also in Ephesians 1:13–14 we see that when we have faith in Him we are sealed with it. Did you not have faith in Him before your Confirmation

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”

I’ve never understood why some think the Holy Spirit is not working in you and through you before Confirmation if you believe and belong to Christ.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

When you die and stand before God, what will your answer be as to why you should be allowed into Heaven?

Will it be something along the lines of…

"Jesus Christ, died on the cross and paid the full price for my sins with his body and blood which was His free gift of salvation for me which I accepted "

Or will it be more along the lines of…

“I accepted Jesus, love and served God and followed the rules of The Church as best I could?”

Or something completely different.

Can you explain why your answer would be whatever it is.

There won’t be any questions. Salvation isn’t a test that hinges on the right or wrong answer. My choice would have been made in life, God will judge me on those choices. No questions.

God bless

 

[Modestly_Anne]

(Continued)

It is often said by certain Protestant groups that “we are saved by faith alone.” That is incorrect. Those of us who make it into Heaven will be there by grace alone; we have no right to enter Heaven, because we do not deserve it. People who make it to Heaven will be there only because God in His infinite mercy has chosen to allow it, despite our many faults.

But He has told us what He wants us to do to get into Heaven. It’s right there, in the Gospels.

Mark 12:29-31.

But merely declaring that love isn’t enough.

Luke 10:25-37.

Salvation isn’t easy. We all stumble on the way. “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!” Matthew 7:13-14. As the Bible tells us, merely believing in Jesus isn’t enough; after all, even the demons believe in Jesus. If we believe in Jesus but fail to do His commands – which the Bible tells us requires actually doing things for our fellow man – then our faith has no power to save.

James 2:14-26.

Come judgment day, I hope I will be able to say something to the effect of, “Lord, I tried to do Your will, and I know I fell short. Please have mercy on me, a sinner, and welcome me into Your Kingdom.”

I agree with you 100% that it is only by God’s Grace and mercy that we will get to Heaven and that by being a follower of Christ our lives should be spent loving and serving others. I also believe that many/most Protestants who say by Faith alone, realize that that Faith is a gift received through God’s Grace. I also believe that most if not all Protestants believe that a person who follows Christ will love and serve others. They realize that their whole life will be transformed, however they also realize that they will never be able to do enough, be good enough or follow enough rules to earn their way into Heaven. It is only by God’s Grace they will be welcomed in on judgement day.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

There won’t be any questions. Salvation isn’t a test that hinges on the right or wrong answer. My choice would have been made in life, God will judge me on those choices. No questions.

God bless

I obviously realize that. I know it’s not a real question with an answer that will Pass or Fail you on judgement day.

It was a hypothetical question, as to what you would say, if God asked you, even though His decision will have obviously already been made.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

Exactly my point. The Holy Spirit isn’t something that a baptized infant has to wait until they are 14 to receive.

I presume you realize you help me make my point, that man made changes to what was the norm, effect the way people view the teachings of the Catholic Church.

So if I’m a baptized Catholic in one area, I’ll receive the Holy Spirit at 3 weeks of age, if I’m in the Western Church, I have to wait a decade and a half or so.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I obviously realize that. I know it’s not a real question with an answer that will Pass or Fail you on judgement day.

It was a hypothetical question, as to what you would say, if God asked you, even though His decision will have obviously already been made.

So long as that is absolutely clear. My hypothetical answer would be along the lines that He shouldn’t. I am not worthy.

God bless

 

[Modestly_Anne]

Which was my question, in the first place. The person (A Catholic) said they received it at Confirmation. Maybe you would be better to go and correct them then.

I’m not seeking to portray the Church as only a bunch of man made traditions. I’m seeking to understand. This is the Non-Catholic Religion forum so I figured it was the place to ask. Don’t assume you know me or my wondering, just because I may not have worded my OP in a way that made sense to you. I’m seeking and trying to understand the differences.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

So long as that is absolutely clear. My hypothetical answer would be along the lines that He shouldn’t. I am not worthy.

God bless

Really? Interesting and humble. None of us are worthy, but I know few who would have the courage to tell God he shouldn’t bother saving us.

 

[Modestly_Anne]

Not sure what that means.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Really? Interesting and humble. None of us are worthy, but I know few who would have the courage to tell God he shouldn’t bother saving us.

This is not what I said. Far from it. If it truly be His will that all should come to Him, He should “bother” because we cannot do it ourselves. Why should He save me? He shouldn’t. I am wicked and have done nothing to deserve his grace, His salvation, which is a gift. Even my faith is a gift from Him.

God bless