catholics and protestants take different views on Jesus?

[traillius]

I once heard a description of the difference between catholics and protestants, when it comes to the relationship with Jesus. By protestant, I mean collectively all those christians who are neither catholic nor orthodox, as a group. Some individuals may differ from the group regarding this analogy.

Protestants will say to Jesus " I love you so much and I am in love with you so much, that I want to spend time with and know only you, and no one else in your family. I don’t want to share you with your family, but I want to share you with everyone else I know.

Catholics will say to Jesus " I love you so much and I am in love with you so much, that I want to spend time with and know about not only with you, but also your entire family, your father, your mother, all our brothers and sisters, on earth and in heaven, I want to share you, and your entire family, with everyone else I know.

Does anyone else feel this might be accurate, for at least some of the non-catholic, non-orthodox christians.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Curious because when you talk about the church in fellowship it suddenly is reversed. “I don’t want to be disturbed by what another is doing” sort of statements made when complaining about being love bombed.

 

[comfort1st]

My experience of the Roman Catholic Church is that if you follow the dictates of the church hierarchy and don’t do things that organisation says you shouldn’t then you are acceptable and are on the way to a close relationship with God.

If the RCC teaching is truly that you want to spread Christ’s way of life to all other people, and that is implemented, then you will accept homosexuals, prostitutes, people whose faith journey asks questions which you don’t like, and those who don’t accept teachings based on the church’s tradition (rather than scripture).

As an Anglo-Catholic my focus has always been what would Christ do/say in my situation. If you want to understand those who the RCC labels “non Christian” (including “Protestants” and “Orthodox”) you must make an effort to stand in their shoes.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

If you want to understand those who the RCC labels “non Christian” (including “Protestants” and “Orthodox”) you must make an effort to stand in their shoes.

Catholics don’t see Protestants or Orthodox as non-christians.

God bless you

 

[Mosacked]

Protestants will say to Jesus " I love you so much and I am in love with you so much, that I want to spend time with and know only you, and no one else in your family. I don’t want to share you with your family, but I want to share you with everyone else I know.

Sounds Quirky doesn’t it? I don’t think any sane christian (catholic or otherwise) would even make such a statement.

Catholics will say to Jesus " I love you so much and I am in love with you so much, that I want to spend time with and know about not only with you, but also your entire family, your father, your mother, all our brothers and sisters, on earth and in heaven, I want to share you, and your entire family, with everyone else I know.

According to the Bible, Jesus is now with God and is God, and is now serving as High Priest to God for His people. NOTHING is mentioned about His earthly relatives after their physical demise (ie only Jesus is still alive to communicate, the others are asleep). So if you still want to know about these others, you’ll have to wait till after your own physical death, since the others are not actively present currently to engage in any form of communication with you.

Does anyone else feel this might be accurate, for at least some of the non-catholic, non-orthodox christians.

TOTALLY IN-ACCURATE.

 

[DorianGregorian]

I once heard a description of the difference between catholics and protestants, when it comes to the relationship with Jesus. By protestant, I mean collectively all those christians who are neither catholic nor orthodox, as a group. Some individuals may differ from the group regarding this analogy.

Protestants will say to Jesus " I love you so much and I am in love with you so much, that I want to spend time with and know only you, and no one else in your family. I don’t want to share you with your family, but I want to share you with everyone else I know.

Catholics will say to Jesus " I love you so much and I am in love with you so much, that I want to spend time with and know about not only with you, but also your entire family, your father, your mother, all our brothers and sisters, on earth and in heaven, I want to share you, and your entire family, with everyone else I know.

Does anyone else feel this might be accurate, for at least some of the non-catholic, non-orthodox christians.

I am not going to get into polemics with you but I will address your points as follows.

To say that Evangelical Catholics and the Reformed Churches don’t want to share Christ is totally inaccurate. It is an idea contrary to scripture, Matthew 28 (the Great Commission) makes it an obligation to spread the Gospel to all peoples, Jew or Greek as Apostle Paul said. It is interesting to note how the Catholic Church no longer wishes to convert the Jews, for it is an idea contrary to scripture that a man can be saved without Christ (there are scores of references in the New Testament, John 14:1-4 being a great example).

To say we don’t honor the friends and family of Jesus is a ludicrous statement. We honor Mary by following her example, “Do whatever he tells you” (Luke 2). We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and we pray for each other. We follow their example, Christ alone is our mediator (as set forth in the Letter to the Hebrews).

However to say that we want to know Jesus, I agree. All the Church Fathers sought Jesus, because he is the only one who can forgive us our sins.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I am not going to get into polemics with you but I will address your points as follows.

To say that Evangelical Catholics and the Reformed Churches don’t want to share Christ is totally inaccurate. It is an idea contrary to scripture, Matthew 28 (the Great Commission) makes it an obligation to spread the Gospel to all peoples, Jew or Greek as Apostle Paul said. It is interesting to note how the Catholic Church no longer wishes to convert the Jews, for it is an idea contrary to scripture that a man can be saved without Christ (there are scores of references in the New Testament, John 14:1-4 being a great example).

To say we don’t honor the friends and family of Jesus is a ludicrous statement. We honor Mary by following her example, “Do whatever he tells you” (Luke 2). We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and we pray for each other. We follow their example, Christ alone is our mediator (as set forth in the Letter to the Hebrews).

However to say that we want to know Jesus, I agree. All the Church Fathers sought Jesus, because he is the only one who can forgive us our sins.

Mary is a chosen mediator with Jesus, chosen by Jesus. Why else would Jesus tell John that she was his mother? Mary was the most perfect human person other than the Lord himself.

The Sacrament of Penance is also pointed out in scripture.

Wow, whoever taught you the catholic faith did a terrible job or something…

 

[JonNC]

=DihydrogenOxide;6422686]Mary is a chosen mediator with Jesus, chosen by Jesus. Why else would Jesus tell John that she was his mother? Mary was the most perfect human person other than the Lord himself.

I think I would agree with the second part of this, for sure.

The Sacrament of Penance is also pointed out in scripture.

Confessions/ Absolution is practiced by Lutherans, as well. Not sure where you think Dorian disputed this.

Wow, whoever taught you the catholic faith did a terrible job or something…

I’d be curious why you say this.

Jon

 

[DorianGregorian]

Mary is a chosen mediator with Jesus, chosen by Jesus. Why else would Jesus tell John that she was his mother? Mary was the most perfect human person other than the Lord himself.

The Sacrament of Penance is also pointed out in scripture.

Wow, whoever taught you the catholic faith did a terrible job or something…

Ah yes there’s the Catholic charity that made the Church so attractive, one wonders why I left.

Yes Mary is our “mother” in that she is the mother of Jesus who is our spiritual “brother.” However, Romans 3:23 makes an exception for no one, all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. As for John being the “son of Mary” and Mary being his “mother” it must also be understood that he was entrusting care of His earthly Mother to the disciple he loved. Mary was going to be without husband (St. Joseph probably dying some years before) and without a Son, John was entrusted with the care of Mary in her old age. What a wonderful act of love and privelege to take care of the Mother of God.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Ah yes there’s the Catholic charity that made the Church so attractive, one wonders why I left.

You left a Church over the actions of people? Then you go on to make an argument that ALL are sinners?

What do you consider the actions of someone who decides to leave the Church, then go to a Catholic forum and take every opportunity to show animosity by striking out against that Church? Is that the kind of charity you think we should be following?

 

[DorianGregorian]

No that’s not the reason I left, I was simply making a point. I don’t want to detract from this topic though so you can PM me.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

As a Protestant convert to Catholicism, I can say my view on Jesus never changed.

 

[Teneas]

Ah yes there’s the Catholic charity that made the Church so attractive, one wonders why I left.

Yes Mary is our “mother” in that she is the mother of Jesus who is our spiritual “brother.” However, Romans 3:23 makes an exception for no one, all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. As for John being the “son of Mary” and Mary being his “mother” it must also be understood that he was entrusting care of His earthly Mother to the disciple he loved. Mary was going to be without husband (St. Joseph probably dying some years before) and without a Son, John was entrusted with the care of Mary in her old age. What a wonderful act of love and privelege to take care of the Mother of God.

…nevermind…was to tired to post anything worth it.

 

[Dokimas]

I once heard a description of the difference between catholics and protestants, when it comes to the relationship with Jesus. By protestant, I mean collectively all those christians who are neither catholic nor orthodox, as a group. Some individuals may differ from the group regarding this analogy.

Protestants will say to Jesus " I love you so much and I am in love with you so much, that I want to spend time with and know only you, and no one else in your family. I don’t want to share you with your family, but I want to share you with everyone else I know.

Catholics will say to Jesus " I love you so much and I am in love with you so much, that I want to spend time with and know about not only with you, but also your entire family, your father, your mother, all our brothers and sisters, on earth and in heaven, I want to share you, and your entire family, with everyone else I know.

Does anyone else feel this might be accurate, for at least some of the non-catholic, non-orthodox christians.

As a non-catholic, non-orthodox Christian I love sharing Jesus with anyone who will converse with me about Him, family or not. I’m here on this formum to share Jesus together with brothers and sisters and those not yet in that category.

 

[DorianGregorian]

You left a Church over the actions of people? Then you go on to make an argument that ALL are sinners?

What do you consider the actions of someone who decides to leave the Church, then go to a Catholic forum and take every opportunity to show animosity by striking out against that Church? Is that the kind of charity you think we should be following?

Please show me how I am showing animosity towards people. Clever rhetoric maybe, but I haven’t personally attacked anyone. If you have misinterpreted my comments to be a personal attack, than I sincerely apologize.

 

[Dokimas]

Please show me how I am showing animosity towards people. Clever rhetoric maybe, but I haven’t personally attacked anyone. If you have misinterpreted my comments to be a personal attack, than I sincerely apologize.

IMO, some of us (maybe many of us) don’t carefully read what others say. We have preconceived notions when we see things that trigger our wrong preconceived ideas so we strike out at our own thoughts instead of what is being said.​

I don’t think you attacked anyone. You commented on the lack of love while noting all, that is ALL, have sinned. The ALL have sinned includes part of why you felt the CC wasn’t for you.

 

[schaick]

You left a Church over the actions of people? Then you go on to make an argument that ALL are sinners?

What do you consider the actions of someone who decides to leave the Church, then go to a Catholic forum and take every opportunity to show animosity by striking out against that Church? Is that the kind of charity you think we should be following?

It is your responsibility as a Christian to leave a church that is not preaching the True Gospel as put forth in the Holy Bible.

And yes all are sinners!!

 

[Vile_Servant]

However, Romans 3:23 makes an exception for no one, all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.

Rom. 3:23 - “all have sinned” refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.

Rom. 3:23 - “all have sinned,” but Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is “pantes.”

1 Cor. 15:22 - in Adam all (“pantes”) have died, and in Christ all (“pantes”) shall live. This proves that “all” does not mean “every single one.” This is because not all have died (such as Enoch and Elijah who were taken up to heaven), and not all will go to heaven (because Jesus said so).

Rom. 5:12 - Paul says that death spread to all (“pantes”) men. Again, this proves that “all” does not mean “every single one” because death did not spread to all men (as we have seen with Enoch and Elijah).

Rom. 5:19 - here Paul says “many (not all) were made sinners.” Paul uses “polloi,” not “pantes.” Is Paul contradicting what he said in Rom. 3:23? Of course not. Paul means that all are subject to original sin, but not all reject God.

(excerpts from www.scripturecatholic.com)

 

[Dokimas]

Rom. 3:23 - “all have sinned” refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin. Are people born senile? If not, they surely sinned before becoming senile. All born normally have a sin nature.

Rom. 3:23 - “all have sinned,” but Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is “pantes.” Jesus isn’t a normal human. He didn’t have a sin nature. I don’t see how Mary was sinless just because Jesus was. Doesn’t make logical progression or sense. Jesus surely didn’t need her to be sinless seeing how He totally pre-dated her. He was sinless before He entered her womb.

1 Cor. 15:22 - in Adam all (“pantes”) have died, and in Christ all (“pantes”) shall live. This proves that “all” does not mean “every single one.” This is because not all have died (such as Enoch and Elijah who were taken up to heaven), and not all will go to heaven (because Jesus said so).

Rom. 5:12 - Paul says that death spread to all (“pantes”) men. Again, this proves that “all” does not mean “every single one” because death did not spread to all men (as we have seen with Enoch and Elijah). There’s two different types of death: physical and spiritual. All have spiritual death without Jesus. All who are ‘in Christ’ have Zoe life.

Rom. 5:19 - here Paul says “many (not all) were made sinners.” Paul uses “polloi,” not “pantes.” Is Paul contradicting what he said in Rom. 3:23? Of course not. Paul means that all are subject to original sin, but not all reject God. Being a sinner doesn’t mean rejection of God. (Romans 7)
(excerpts from www.scripturecatholic.com)

 

[Vile_Servant]

Rom. 3:23 - “all have sinned” refers only to those able to commit sin. This is not everyone. For example, infants, the retarded, and the senile cannot sin.
Dokimas: Are people born senile? If not, they surely sinned before becoming senile. **All born normally have a sin nature. **
VS: Was Jesus born with a sin nature?

Rom. 3:23 - “all have sinned,” but Jesus must be an exception to this rule. This means that Mary can be an exception as well. Note that the Greek word for all is “pantes.”
Dokimas: Jesus isn’t a normal human. He didn’t have a sin nature. I don’t see how Mary was sinless just because Jesus was. Doesn’t make logical progression or sense. Jesus surely didn’t need her to be sinless seeing how He totally pre-dated her. He was sinless before He entered her womb.
VS: Then why didn’t St Paul write “all have sinned EXCEPT JESUS” in Romans 3:23?

*1 Cor. 15:22 - in Adam all (“pantes”) have died, and in Christ all (“pantes”) shall live. This proves that “all” does not mean “every single one.” This is because not all have died (such as Enoch and Elijah who were taken up to heaven), and not all will go to heaven (because Jesus said so). *
VS: Therefore the word “all” in “all have sinned” in Romans 3:23 does not mean “every single one”.

*Rom. 5:12 - Paul says that death spread to all (“pantes”) men. Again, this proves that “all” does not mean “every single one” because death did not spread to all men (as we have seen with Enoch and Elijah). *
Dokimas: There’s two different types of death: physical and spiritual. All have spiritual death without Jesus. All who are ‘in Christ’ have Zoe life.
VS: The different types of death are irrelevant to the topic. The point is “all” (greek “pantes”) in Romans 3:23 does not mean “every single one”.

*Rom. 5:19 - here Paul says “many (not all) were made sinners.” Paul uses “polloi,” not “pantes.” Is Paul contradicting what he said in Rom. 3:23? Of course not. Paul means that all are subject to original sin, but not all reject God. *
Dokimas: Being a sinner doesn’t mean rejection of God. (Romans 7)
VS: This is precisely why Protestants believe thay can sin boldly and sin as many times as they like and still be saved, because to them sin does not mean rejection of God.
Catholics believe that all sin is an offense against God and a rejection of his perfect love and justice.