"Catholics" and the right to choose?

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No sugar coating… What does it say of the morality of “Catholics” who believe more in the right to choose than in abstinence? Catholics who will stand up and walk out in the middle of a mass worshiping our God because they do not want to here a homily on the wrongs of abortion. After all, is that not what it comes down too? That it is today morally more acceptable to have an abortion than to have a child resulting from the failure to merely abstain?
 
No sugar coating… What does it say of the morality of “Catholics” who believe more in the right to choose than in abstinence? Catholics who will stand up and walk out in the middle of a mass worshiping our God because they do not want to here a homily on the wrongs of abortion. After all, is that not what it comes down too? That it is today morally more acceptable to have an abortion than to have a child resulting from the failure to merely abstain?
I suppose it says that their morality is, to be charitable, skewed and not rooted in the truth of God’s divine revelation. These folks, in their prideful nature, recognize no authority other than themselves, and love the world more than they love Him. It saddens me.
 
Catholics who will stand up and walk out in the middle of a mass worshiping our God because they do not want to here a homily on the wrongs of abortion. After all, is that not what it comes down too? That it is today morally more acceptable to have an abortion than to have a child resulting from the failure to merely abstain?
I gotta be honest, I really don’t know any catholics…even the luke warm catholics that most here despise, who defend the practice of abortion. I reads posts on CAF about how catholics today try to justify abortion, but I just don’t see it. Perhaps it is just b/c I live in the bible belt, but I see no significant contingent of catholics who feel abortion is ok.

I do see many catholics who don’t see it as a priority in assessing political candidates’ fitness to serve.

–Rico
 
The “Catholics” I know that are o.k. with abortion have not been to Church in years or if they do go it is only for Christmas and Easter. They consider themselves Catholics because they went to Catholic School or was baptized in the faith. They really do not know anything about the Church or why it opposes abortion. They just do not hold the Church in high regard like most of us do, which is a shame.
 
No sugar coating… What does it say of the morality of “Catholics” who believe more in the right to choose than in abstinence? Catholics who will stand up and walk out in the middle of a mass worshiping our God because they do not want to here a homily on the wrongs of abortion. After all, is that not what it comes down too? That it is today morally more acceptable to have an abortion than to have a child resulting from the failure to merely abstain?
Those Catholics who get up and walk out during a homily regarding anti-abortion should also abstain from receiving the Eucharist any other time as they are not in communion with the Church
 
The “Catholics” I know that are o.k. with abortion have not been to Church in years or if they do go it is only for Christmas and Easter. They consider themselves Catholics because they went to Catholic School or was baptized in the faith. They really do not know anything about the Church or why it opposes abortion. They just do not hold the Church in high regard like most of us do, which is a shame.
you hit it dead center when you said they don’t know anything about the church, and by the church I mean the Faith. It is unfrtunate but many Catholics who went through Catholic School think that they know all there is to know about the Faith when they graduate but have no real idea of what Christianity really is because they don’t pursue learning any further. I know I fit into that catagory when I left high school and became independant. It took me 25 years to learn everything I was critical about in regard to Catholic Teaching came from the teachings of Jesus Himself. So many years I lost without knowing Him but thinking I knew it all.
 
Those Catholics who get up and walk out during a homily regarding anti-abortion should also abstain from receiving the Eucharist any other time as they are not in communion with the Church
Talk about turning your back to God, That’s very true…
 
For every Catholic who is o.k. with abortion there has to be two who are not. Why are we not taking the time to inform them of why it is so wrong? We can moan and grumble at these “horrible” Catholics but has anyone who grumbles had a talk with someone in our Church who says that abortion is o.k.? It’s time that get up off of our duffs and spread the word of this most horrible crime against humanity. Remember that Obama or anyone else who is pro-choice can do nothing if the person next to you is informed of the truth. Our biggest weapon against abortion is prayer and deed. It’s time that we quit waiting for everyone else to take a stance and for EACH of us who is anti-murder (abortion) to find someone and, with love, express why there are no circumstances that warrant taking a life.

So, what are we to do? Do something and that doesn’t include complaining about what everyone else should do…teachccd
 
For every Catholic who is o.k. with abortion there has to be two who are not. Why are we not taking the time to inform them of why it is so wrong? We can moan and grumble at these “horrible” Catholics but has anyone who grumbles had a talk with someone in our Church who says that abortion is o.k.? It’s time that get up off of our duffs and spread the word of this most horrible crime against humanity. Remember that Obama or anyone else who is pro-choice can do nothing if the person next to you is informed of the truth. Our biggest weapon against abortion is prayer and deed. It’s time that we quit waiting for everyone else to take a stance and for EACH of us who is anti-murder (abortion) to find someone and, with love, express why there are no circumstances that warrant taking a life.

So, what are we to do? Do something and that doesn’t include complaining about what everyone else should do…teachccd
I think it needs to go further than that. We should take a lesson from some of our protestant brothers and sisters in that many of them gather together for no purpose but to discuss the Bible and word of God. We need to organize such groups in each parish and not just gather on Sundays for mass.
 
I think the issue is that a slight majority of Catholics while personally thinking abortion is wrong, do not think it should be illegal.

Grates many in that majority might not go to church but a good amount still go regularly.
 
Every single time I’ve seen Catholics walk out of church over a sermon it was invariably a sermon that was attempting to improperly insert the Church into personal politics.

I’ve never seen anyone walk out of a sermon preaching against abortion per se.

In my experience its when overzealous priests cut corners on Church teaching and take it beyond where it actually goes.

A recent example is the fellow in (I believe S.C.) who told his parishioners that if they voted for Obama they needed to go to confession before he would give them the Eucharist.

Another would be a deacon at my Church who told the parishioners that anyone with a Kerry sticker on his car was in a state of mortal sin.

If we want to end abortion, we need to carefully study the reasons it happens and attitudes that permit it, then address those reasons and attitudes.

Intentionally vilifying and misrepresenting those who disagree on abortion will never enlighten them or bring them into agreement.

OTOH, if we’re not really interested in ending abortion, if instead we’re more interested in congratulating ourselves on our piety and self-righteousness, and we want to make sure that no Catholic can aspire to a career in politics, then I think we’re doing a fine job.
 
Odd, isn’t it, that people who believe in this particular euphemistic “right to choose” are usually quite at home with all kinds of restrictions on non-murderous behavior? I suspect that Catholics supporting the “right to choose” abortion wouldn’t support my “right to choose” punching them in the nose and stealing their wallets.

It’s enough to make you think that an honest attempt at moral theology may not be at the root of this.
 
Every single time I’ve seen Catholics walk out of church over a sermon it was invariably a sermon that was attempting to improperly insert the Church into personal politics.

I’ve never seen anyone walk out of a sermon preaching against abortion per se.

In my experience its when overzealous priests cut corners on Church teaching and take it beyond where it actually goes.

A recent example is the fellow in (I believe S.C.) who told his parishioners that if they voted for Obama they needed to go to confession before he would give them the Eucharist.

Another would be a deacon at my Church who told the parishioners that anyone with a Kerry sticker on his car was in a state of mortal sin.

If we want to end abortion, we need to carefully study the reasons it happens and attitudes that permit it, then address those reasons and attitudes.

Intentionally vilifying and misrepresenting those who disagree on abortion will never enlighten them or bring them into agreement.

OTOH, if we’re not really interested in ending abortion, if instead we’re more interested in congratulating ourselves on our piety and self-righteousness, and we want to make sure that no Catholic can aspire to a career in politics, then I think we’re doing a fine job.
Really, My head hurts too much to respond to this. So please go to www.AmericanMinute.com to learn how the Churches tax status has affected the Priests ability to preach politics.

Now I am going home to soak my head in ice.
 
We do have to understand that very many women or girls feel forced into having an abortion. It is not a choice for them. And I think that Catholics…both priests and laity…need to preach from the mountain top on the love we feel for these women and girls…and the babies in their womb.
We need to offer alternatives to remove them from those who are forcing them into an abortion.

Yes, there are certainly the Libermans and Pelosis out there claiming to be in complete compliance with the Church while being totally pro abortion.
It is wrong.

And the old cliche of “I personally abhor abortion, but would never try to control another person’s right to choose abortion for themselves.”
That is a contradiction to end all contradictions. It is saying, “I personally abhor murder, but you have the right to murder if you want it.” The only difference being that the person doesn’t have to see the murder as it is hidden inside of the womb. It is a cop out. And Jesus is paying attention!!! He understands that a play on words is just that…a play on words. Breathing in and inhaling are the same thing.
 
Personally, I despise the use of the expression pro-‘choice.’ Rhetorically, it sounds like it’s not a bad thing. So, I’d prefer to call it what it is - pro-infanticide. The term used should conjure some image of the dismemberment and killing of innocent babies. It’s that evil and that intrinsically wrong - whether or not you are Catholic!!

Despite the theological gibberish of Nancy Pelosi and any other ‘Catholic’ who tries to justify his/her pro-abortion attitude, to be truly in line with the truth and teaching of the Catholic Church is to be pro-life. If a ‘Catholic’ questions that, then, he has a choice to make. The first should be to not receive communion. The second should be to either examine his conscience, amend his attitude toward respecting all life, and go to confession, or to no longer call himself ‘Catholic.’ I would pray in all cases for the first.

I think our Bishops need to take a harder line. If ‘Faith without works is dead’, then their words without action to support them are falling on deaf ears. When people in the public eye have been asked by their Bishops to not present themselves for communion because of their repeated and very public pro-abortion stand and go forward anyway and receive communion, it seems it is time for those Bishops to call those individuals to make a choice - to repent and change their ways, or face excommunication. It would certainly enforce the serious nature of the pro-life issues on the part of our Bishops and the Church. To me, it seems that Pelosi, Biden, Sibelius, etc. are making a mockery of the Church by continuing to receive communion, especially after being asked by their Bishops and the Pope not to, in addition to committing mortal sin repeatedly. It seems that since they have so little respect for the Church, the best alternative would be to excommunicate them from it. They can choose to return if they have a change of conscience. It may sound harsh, but they are certainly not a positive role model or example for our children or for those adults who seem to adopt the idea that if the Church doesn’t do anything disciplinary toward them, then how sincere is the Church’s stand on the pro-life issues? Actions do speak louder than words. And it seems like too many ‘Catholics’, public and private, aren’t really hearing the words of the Church, the Catechism, the Bible or the Bishops and priests. If they are walking out on such homilies and sermons, or not attending Mass, then, too many just don’t want to hear. They should be reminded of their alternatives.
 
Every single time I’ve seen Catholics walk out of church over a sermon it was invariably a sermon that was attempting to improperly insert the Church into personal politics.

I’ve never seen anyone walk out of a sermon preaching against abortion per se.

In my experience its when overzealous priests cut corners on Church teaching and take it beyond where it actually goes.

A recent example is the fellow in (I believe S.C.) who told his parishioners that if they voted for Obama they needed to go to confession before he would give them the Eucharist.

Another would be a deacon at my Church who told the parishioners that anyone with a Kerry sticker on his car was in a state of mortal sin.

If we want to end abortion, we need to carefully study the reasons it happens and attitudes that permit it, then address those reasons and attitudes.

Intentionally vilifying and misrepresenting those who disagree on abortion will never enlighten them or bring them into agreement.

OTOH, if we’re not really interested in ending abortion, if instead we’re more interested in congratulating ourselves on our piety and self-righteousness, and we want to make sure that no Catholic can aspire to a career in politics, then I think we’re doing a fine job.
Perhaps you can blame this on the Church for being to opinionated also;
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.
(Jeremiah Ch 1: 4-5)

Thus says the LORD,
Your redeemer, who formed you from the womb: I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens; when I spread out the earth, who was with me? (Isaiah Ch 44: 24)

5 For your own lifeblood, too, I will demand an accounting: from every animal I will demand it, and from man in regard to his fellow man I will demand an accounting for human life. 6 If anyone sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; For in the image of God has man been made. (Genesis CH 9: 5-6)

I first refer to what Jesus proclaimed to the apostles when they attempted to stop the Children from approaching Him. These were not Baptized in the sense as we know it, but merely children at this point. Children in reality in contrast to how John in the gospel referred to figuratively to the Baptized in Christ. We are children of Adam and Eve, who were children of God, God’s own who fell to temptation. It goes much deeper than adults being Baptized or born again, I believe. But if I am wrong, and no one is a child of God until “Baptized” including the children, why would Jesus make the proclamation He did with such displeasure to His apostles?

Throughout the OT and the NT for that matter, it has always been recognized as a BLESSING OF GOD for a person to have children. All references to the Baptized are made comparing them to children and I submit the following verses as well;

Mark CH 10; 13 And people were bringing children to him that he might touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child 2 will not enter it.” 16 Then he embraced them and blessed them, placing his hands on them.

Luke CH 9; 46 An argument arose among the disciples about which of them was the greatest. 47 Jesus realized the intention of their hearts and took a child and placed it by his side 48 and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me. For the one who is least among all of you is the one who is the greatest.”

Luke CH 18; 15 34 People were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them, and when the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16 Jesus, however, called the children to himself and said, “Let the children come to me and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17 Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.”

1 Corinthians CH 7; 10 To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord): 7 a wife should not separate from her husband 11 - and if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband - and a husband should not divorce his wife. 12 To the rest 8 I say (not the Lord): if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to go on living with him, he should not divorce her; 13 and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living with her, she should not divorce her husband. 14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy.

1 Timothy CH 2; 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed. 15 But she will be saved through motherhood, provided women persevere in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

continued
 
to be Baptized is to repent and return to or accept God once of age of reason. As a child it is clear that all are the children of God. The Baptized would not be compared to children if children yet innocent of reason were not of God.

Matthew CH 18: 1 1 At that time the disciples 2 approached Jesus and said, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a child over, placed it in their midst, 3 and said, "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, 3 you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 4 And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me. 6 "Whoever causes one of these little ones 5 who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 6 Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come!
 
“Cathloic” and “pro-choice” are mutually exclusive. Anyone disagreeing is either misinformed or deceitful.

I wonder how the history books will look upon this chapter of civilization - state sanctioned murder. When the question of the average German’s awareness of the Holocaust comes up they usually get the benefit of the doubt. To have protested the Holocaust would most certainly meant death. What’s our excuse?
 
No sugar coating… What does it say of the morality of “Catholics” who believe more in the right to choose than in abstinence? Catholics who will stand up and walk out in the middle of a mass worshiping our God because they do not want to here a homily on the wrongs of abortion. After all, is that not what it comes down too? That it is today morally more acceptable to have an abortion than to have a child resulting from the failure to merely abstain?
Do you know that actually happened or are you speculating?
 
I think this would have a place in this thread. If you want to hear a truly awesome pro-life homily, listen to today’s homily by Father Frank Pavone on EWTN. I doubt anyone there walked out!! He based it on today’s gospel reading. It could not have been timed better, considering that today, Obama is supposed to announce pro-abortionist Sebelius as his choice for Sec. of Health and Human Services, and open 30 days to discuss legislation to overturn the conscience rule Bush enacted with regards to performing abortions.

I plan to tape that homily later so I can share it. Here on the east coast, daily Mass will be replayed at noon, 7 PM and midnight. I hope that having people walk out on the truth will not keep those priests from proclaiming it. They may need your encouragement and support. I hope we all continue to proclaim it. Time to write another Letter to the Editor!

God bless.
 
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