Catholics are legalists by default?

[DBRANDT]

I get this from my non-Catholic friends. My only reply is that I find it difficult to believe Catholics are the only acceptable brand of Christians who battle this issue in their spiritual life. It’s just fashionable to blame Catholics. It’s called diversion. Catholics certainly have no monopoly on legalism.

 

[HD0521]

I’ve been accused of it as a catholic. Usually by the same Protestants who are told by their pastor that they must tithe 10%. Ironically money is the only thing Protestants are “legalistic” about. Haha

 

[rosejmj]

Many Catholics seem overly legalistic. It is all about following the rules, the letter of the law and there is no room for doing things differently. you see this with the Catholic’s preoccupation with sin and church rules. The most important thing is the heart and the intentions, not how well one follows the letter of the law. Look at Jesus rebuking the Pharisees for being like that

 

[DBRANDT]

Again, I try to avoid generalizations. The operative word is “seem to.” We Catholics are preoccupied with sin and church rules? Really? I rest my case. Only God knows the heart. Everything else is just fashionable judgmentalism.

 

[Psychae]

It does seem to me that Catholic = legalistic more often than not. This frustrates me to no end because 1) God’s not a lawyer and 2) Jesus called out the Pharisees for this exact thing.

IMO St Augustine, who first put forth the idea of original sin, began a sort of domino effect in the (Western) Church, where we ended up all but forgetting about grace, mercy, Love and redemption, and instead being constantly fixated on sin. It’s not healthy and it’s not what Jesus Christ came for.

 

[IdaCatholic]

If by legalistic they mean following and observing laws then sure. I have no problem with that. God has laws. Always had them. From dont eat from the tree, to the ten commandments to Jesus to the Church. Our God is a God of law and mercy.

 

[Thom18]

There’s no problem with “legalism” if the laws are good. The pharisees and scribes had some extremely superfluous ones, man-made ones, which Jesus described as having a higher importance to them than God’s own commandments. Our own “laws” are all rather oriented towards Him.

 

[ATraveller]

Do people who accuse others of “legalism” understand what it even means?
The Protestant traditions that bother looking at how Luther, Calvin and others used the term would see its describing the position salvation can be earned by works i.e. following the law rigidly to gain salvation and God’s favour.
Protestants emphasize salvation can’t be earned by our works. That is NOT to say works aren’t important. They are. Jesus saves and the believer responds with works.

 

[TK421]

I get this from my non-Catholic friends. My only reply is that I find it difficult to believe Catholics are the only acceptable brand of Christians who battle this issue in their spiritual life. It’s just fashionable to blame Catholics. It’s called diversion. Catholics certainly have no monopoly on legalism.

I’m not sure what ‘legalist’ means, but if you asked me if I thought Jesus intended for there to be one church or 150,000+ churches, I would say the later.

 

[Zaccheus]

The most important thing is the heart and the intentions, not how well one follows the letter of the law.

These are not mutually exclusive. If you love Jesus you will want to do His will: and if you believe He set down certain rules to follow you will want to follow them.

 

[Zaccheus]

Thom18:

Our own “laws” are all rather oriented towards Him.

I disagree. Just today I was talking with others at my parish who agreed with me that the Church is holding the sacraments hostage from us & our kids, until we jump thru hoops, “laws” if you like, to receive them. This is not oriented toward God. It’s an abuse of power.

What hoops do you mean?

 

[Zaccheus]

DBRANDT:

I get this from my non-Catholic friends. My only reply is that I find it difficult to believe Catholics are the only acceptable brand of Christians who battle this issue in their spiritual life. It’s just fashionable to blame Catholics. It’s called diversion. Catholics certainly have no monopoly on legalism.

I’m not sure what ‘legalist’ means, but if you asked me if I thought Jesus intended for there to be one church or 150,000+ churches, I would say the later.

Hm?
Why would Christ want thousands of separate churches?

 

[Jen7]

I think Catholicism can sound more legalistic than Protestantism because when Protestants don’t like their rules they can switch churches & find rules or a style they prefer. Catholics can’t in good conscience do that. So I think we talk (and complain) about the rules much more. I don’t see it as bad if we are still obedient & questioning in a spirit of seeking to understand.

 

[HopkinsReb]

Ironically money is the only thing Protestants are “legalistic” about. Haha

Which Protestants?

None of the Protestant churches to which I’ve belonged.

 

[Jen7]

Which Protestants?

None of the Protestant churches to which I’ve belonged.

Isn’t it pretty common that they speak like a true tithe (10%) isn’t optional? Catholics believe that number is not “set in stone.” My husband is a convert & assumes we would tithe as Catholics. It has been a topic of many many discussions for us & took me many years to come to being okay with a genuine “tithe.” I certainly didn’t grow up with that concept as a cradle Catholic!!

 

[nearlycatholic]

Interesting how anyone who loves Jesus and desires to live a holy life because #1 it is pleasing to the God who loves and saves us & #2 He requires, it is branded legalistic. Well, go ahead and live according to the flesh instead of walking according to the Spirit. Sacred Scripture identifies both ways of living and their distinct reward. The “legalistic” game is observably played by the self centered. This comment is not directed at any specific individual. It is intended to address the “legalistic” dart!

 

[HopkinsReb]

Isn’t it pretty common that they speak like a true tithe (10%) isn’t optional?

Not in any of the Anglican or Methodist churches to which I’ve belonged. Not in the Presbyterian Churches to which my wife has belonged.

Why would you not tithe, though, unless you simply can’t make ends meet? I’ve never seen this as a Catholic-Protestant divide at all. I’m kind of shocked to see a Catholic who has a problem with it.

 

[Jen7]

Not in any of the Anglican or Methodist churches to which I’ve belonged. Not in the Presbyterian Churches to which my wife has belonged.

Why would you not tithe, though, unless you simply can’t make ends meet? I’ve never seen this as a Catholic-Protestant divide at all. I’m kind of shocked to see a Catholic who has a problem with it.

My husband was evangelical, so maybe that’s why. And when we were first married & living on his grad student stipend + expecting our first child, tithing while barely being able to afford the “basics” felt irresponsible to me.

Edited to add: most Catholics I know do not put a full 10% in the basket every Sunday. The only other family I know who is careful to give a full tithe was also evangelical before becoming Catholic.

 

[HopkinsReb]

Edited to add: most Catholics I know do not put a full 10% in the basket every Sunday. The only other family I know who is careful to give a full tithe was also evangelical before becoming Catholic.

Oh, I’m not saying that all Catholics give it. I’m saying I find it bizarre that a Catholic would find it objectionable.

 

[Psychae]

Have you expressed this view to your parish priest?

No. That poor man gets so many complaints, I don’t want to add to them. It’s really the diocese making the rules, anyway.

Is it not right that children should be appropriately catechised before receiving the sacraments? Is it not right that people above the age of reason should believe in the sacraments and be in communion with the Church before receiving?

No. It is not right. Babies are baptized with no prior catechesis and IMO they should be Chrismated at that age like the Eastern Church does. Jesus was not age-ist. He didn’t discriminate based on age and neither should the Church.

First Confession & First Communion have turned into a rite of passage (you’re a Big Kid now!) and Confirmation has also turned into a rite of passage (you’re an adult now/ you’re a mature Catholic / you’re fully Catholic) and this is ridiculous. The Sacraments are not rites of passage. They are the birthright of all Catholics.

The withholding of Sacraments until whatever certain age needs to stop. This needs to change at the systemic level.

Again, the Eastern Church does it right. Babies grow up with the graces of Confirmation and receiving the Blessed Sacrament regularly. It’s time the Roman Catholic Church switched to this practice.