Hi Michael,
Don’t bother, Mke, it’s all a goof. He is goofing on you. He won’t answer questions, but he will get pleasure after making you chase around for answers. He is baiting you.
No, that is not necessary. Any CAtholic will vouch for the fact that it is impossible to please God in an unregenerate state. God gives us grace unto salvation, then we choose whether or not to enter into, and remain in, a state of grace. Or do you believe God asks humans to do that which is impossible?
If by efficacious you mean resulting in salvation, that would be both. As shown in the scripture, God shows us our need, and sets before us choices. Humans then choose, and act on those choices.
Yes. God allows mankind to fail by exercise of the free will.
Pardon me for jumping in on this great set of questions!
Yes
Except those predestined.
Because, as you noted, we are born after the fall, and are incapable of coming to God without it.
Genesis to Revelation. I gave you a quote on my last post from Deut.
You are probably right about Jones. I will answer this for the lurkers primarily.
The efficaciousness of prevenient grace ultimately depends on God.
Your perception of God is quite odd.
Our full acceptance and cooperation with that gift.
No Salvation of an individual is a matter of FREE WILL. God does his part and offers it FREELY to every human being he created.
You keep saying the wrong thing. We are not justified by our works.We are saved by GRACE ALONE, but we are justified by our works.
I think “fail” would be the wrong word to use. God created Satan a holy and perfect angel, and yet Satan fell and became the father of all lies. God is not the source or cause of evil. So did God fail? God created Adam and Eve in righteousness, and yet they sinned against Him - despite His command not to eat of the Tree and the warning - and lost that original righteousness in which they were created. Did God fail? Or when we have a verse like
My Well-beloved has a vineyard
On a very fruitful hill.
2 He dug it up and cleared out its stones,
And planted it with the choicest vine.
He built a tower in its midst,
And also made a winepress in it;
So He expected it to bring forth good grapes,
But it brought forth wild grapes.
3 “ And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah,
Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard.
4 What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes? **This is also not a good choice of words. Though I don’t think you mean what your words apparently say, this can be grossly misunderstood and does not accurately reflect the Catholic position. In fact, this is precisely what this thread is arguing against. We are saved by grace.
God provides prevenient grace to both elect and non-elect:
Yes. No one can repent or come to faith without this divine inititiative which the Bible calls “drawing.” Prevenient or antecedent grace is the theological term used to describe this drawing.
Prevenient grace can be efficacious in some and inefficacious in others. In the case of those predestined to glory, this grace will be infallibly efficacious. God ensures its infallibility.
Without this grace they cannot turn to God.
Acts 18:27
You are more than welcome. I’m no expert, but I’ll try to answer your questions as best as I can.
I beg your pardon.This is also not a good choice of words. Though I don’t think you mean what your words apparently say, this can be grossly misunderstood and does not accurately reflect the Catholic position. In fact, this is precisely what this thread is arguing against. We are saved by grace.
God Bless,
Michael
I know that you know what you mean. Unfortunately, others may not. My intent was not to offend you. Since you have given your opinion in the past regarding my choice of words, I didn’t think you would mind if I do the same.
What I write is not only for Nick, but is also for all those who are interested in this topic, Catholics and Protestants alike. While Nick may never grant me one point, there may be others who are open minded and are willing to hear the Catholic position.
I am not “dull”, you are not “dull”, and Nick is not “dull.” Nick apparently wants to engage in a discussion with me and I will try to respond with respect and with the charity that becomes a Christian. Based on past experiences with other Protestants, I am very much aware that this can be a fruitless discussion. However, I will refrain from judging Nick’s intentions. I will give him a chance.
Amen!
