Catholics believe Jesus (PBWH) ordered the killing of idol worshipers.

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Steven_John said:
Oh yes it is awsome but is it Jesus (PBWH) kingdom or the Fathers? and Gods word is what Jesus (PBWH) spoke, did he not say he can only do of the Father?
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John
your confusion is: is Jesus the Son of God? or God? or is Jesus a prophet?

many of us are humble enough to admit that we dont understand everything about God. we cannot at least not yet.
we can only know what God allows us to know.
that is when faith comes. we believe because God said so.
and we accept the SS that comes from the people of Israel.
maybe you have a question, why the SS from the Jews and not ours? i dont know how to answer you that.

but Jesus is the One we chose to believe. Jesus is the One who defines what is true to us. not a prophet, not some philosophy, or anything else.

Jesus, His life and death, what He said, what He did is what is important to us.

there is more to say…

:bowdown: :signofcross:
 
Steven_John said:
Your advice is good, this is what i have done and dont see Jesus (PBWH) as God but truly see Him through Jesus (PBWH).

people have tried to explain to me how Jesus (PBWH) is God and i kind of get what they say, but it is far what what i read in the gospels.

i dont find where Jesus (PBWH) claims to be God the closest i come is him saying he is who he said he is, the son of man.

The nun that blerted Jesus is God is very special to me and i wanted to go further with her, but respecting her age and the tone of her voice thought i should leave it with her. I have come here because you all work together at helping people.

If she is right and God is all seeing all knowing Jesus (PBWH) instructed the killing of the people worshiping the shinny yellow cow.

In gratitude of your help and kindness
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Here is a very simple article on the divinity of Christ. When Scripture refers to Jesus as “son of the Most High”, THAT is, indeed, a reference to His divinity.

You have p(name removed by moderator)ointed one of the central features of Christianity. I congratulate you on your intuition of this truly pivotal point.
 
LilyM said:
As the Word of God, in His Divine Nature, I suppose you could say He DID participate with the Father in ordering that killing, though it’s interesting that we don’t really tend to think of Him as doing so. It’s an instance of His perfect justice, I suppose, since the Israelites had sinned grievously against God.
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Peace and blessings to you and yours,

i was praying a couple of nights ago and was inspired to communicate this to you.

Your post is a blessing to me as it reaffirms a position in my heart given by the true spirit.
The reaffirmation is not of the quote but how you got to it.

You have reaffirmed to me that people of the spirit make genuine effort to come down from their position to try to understand where the other person is coming from.

May you and yours be blessed for generations to come as He wills and yous submit.
 
Steven_John said:
Catholics believe Jesus (PBWH) ordered the killing of idol worshipers.

Muslims don’t teach Jesus (PBWH) ordered any killing.

Please pray to your Deity before you post and post with peace trying to see others point of view.
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I think you have asked a question that might be interpreted in more than one way, depending on what you had in mind when you asked it. Christians believe that Jesus was born at a set time and place, even if scholars argue about exact dates. If the incident concerning the idol worshipers happened at the time of Moses, then this is before the event known as the Incarnation, when the Holy Spirit came to Mary and Jesus was conceived in her womb. From this perspective, a Christian may well answer your question by saying Jesus did not make such an order in his lifetime, because they interpret your question to be one about what acts Jesus did at that time in Palestine, as recorded in scripture.

But you may be asking if the second person of the Trinity (the Son) orders/wills the same things as the Father, from all eternity. Then the answer is yes. It is not possible for the Father and the Son to will different things. God is God. Let me illustrate with the truth of creation. When Christians are speaking, they might say the Father created the world. But they do not mean by this that the Father creates things and the Son is separate from this and not involved. That cannot be. Creation is a work of the Holy Trinity. Although we attribute it to the Father when speaking, this does not mean that the Son is separate from this action.

I hope this helps you to understand why you are getting different types of responses on this thread.
 
Dear Pug
peace and blessings be upon you and yours.

I feel you have examined and responded to my post well.

You have expanded on my point.

For me God is undivided and is always of one mind so i respect that people see an image of God through Jesus (pbwh) and FOR ME transgress to saying Jesus (pbwh) is God.

I feel your last paragraph reiterates my post, (Catholics believe Jesus (PBWH) ordered the killing of idol worshipers.) but they are blessed to see and hold fast Jesus (pbwh) as the blessed with the pure spirit.

You are like one of the other posters that have made real effort to understand me, I am blessed by having understanding of your position.

May God bless you and yours always as He wills as so yous submit.
 
Steven_John said:
Catholics believe Jesus (PBWH) ordered the killing of idol worshipers.

Muslims don’t teach Jesus (PBWH) ordered any killing.

Please pray to your Deity before you post and post with peace trying to see others point of view.
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Catholics certainly do NOT believe any such thing.

BTW, if Muslims do not believe that Jesus ordered any killing of idol worshipers, then why, three years ago, was a man nearly executed in Afghanistan for converting to Christianity from Islam?
 
AgnosTheist said:
I agree. I think modern christians are ashamed of admitting that their God loved to torture infidels, heretics & sinners.

But i hear Muslims give the same excuse. So muslims are starting to feel the same embarrsment as well. 👍
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There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of that Almighty God in His infinite mercy and love does, would do or choses not to do. 🙂

Does not God the Father through His OWN Son wish for all to be saved?

The idea that ‘Christ went willingly to the cross’ and ‘Christ creating hell-fire’ are at complete variance. We do not know how or what creates hell-fire, nor indeed what it really is. No doubt the concept ‘hell-fire’ is so expressed so that we in our finite intelligence can understand it, whereas the reality is probably profoundly more complex and beyond our understanding.

What we DO KNOW is that God’s will for everyone is to be saved. We were not created to be tortured for all eternity. We were [as our catechism tells us] ‘Created to know Him, to love Him and served Him in this world and to be happy with Him for all eternity in the next!’ Ch1:2. If man using his freewill ‘choses’ to reject that fantastic offer then the blame cannot be laid at God’s door.
 
HashemEchad said:
Yes…and parables were designed to teach a lesson.

What lesson was Jesus trying to teach with Luke 19, pray tell?

If you read the entire parable in context, you see he is referring to Jews who would not believe in him, and the “king” represents him (Jesus).

I always found it odd how Christians have no trouble realizing that a parable is intended to teach a lesson…except when it comes to the one in Luke 19.
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What is to happen to the ACTIVE enemies of Jesus? They are to be “killed” from being with Him, and to exist in the “death” which is hell.

Those who are not culpable of being ACTIVELY against Jesus are not these “enemies”, and are “dealt with” somehow else.

What is your disagreement with this meaning of the parable?
 
hamba2han said:
Since Christians believe that Jesus (pbuh) is God, then for what reason did he i.e. Jesus, create the fires of Hell for?

Kindly note that the popular Christian argument that it is not the Creator but rather the creations who will send themselves to the Hell-fire does not at all answer this question.
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The “fires of hell” are not created by God, anymore than sin was created by God.

God created only good things. He created FREE WILL, as a good thing, and gifted it to the angels and to humans.

Both some angels and some humans used their gift of free will to fashion evil from good.

Your proposal that “hell fire” was created by God is simply incorrect, as “hell fire”, just like the flame from a butane lighter, is the fashioning of God’s creation into what humans want to make.

Men WANT to exist in the “fires of hell” when they discover that they will never be with God, and they WANT it because they THINK that it will “burn away that which keeps them from God” (they think it is a mortification), without understanding that they can’t halt their creation (hell fire) once they DECIDE to start it.

Just as the fallen angels can’t “take back” their decision to have rebelled against God,just like they can’t take back ANY decision made “in eternity”, we humans can’t “take back” any decision when we are “in eternity” after our earthly existence.
 
AgnosTheist said:
I agree. I think modern christians are ashamed of admitting that their God loved to torture infidels, heretics & sinners.

But i hear Muslims give the same excuse. So muslims are starting to feel the same embarrsment as well. 👍
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Do you think it’s POSSIBLE that those who suffered “inhumanely” at the hands of other men or “natural phenomena” might be treated with an “extra-share” of mercy by God after their earthly life?

Remember, it is not EARTHLY LIFE that is the measure of one’s “reward”, but one’s disposition AFTER earthly life where one’s reward is enjoyed.

God does not torture, but His creations sometimes do. And sometimes those creations aren’t human.

Those who suffer from torture are repaid with due justice.
 
Steven_John said:
Catholics believe Jesus (PBWH) ordered the killing of idol worshipers.

Muslims don’t teach Jesus (PBWH) ordered any killing.

Please pray to your Deity before you post and post with peace trying to see others point of view.
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That’s not a point of view - it’s outright fiction. I hope no one will accord it the dignity of a refutation - it is not worthy of one. :mad:​

 
Steven_John said:
All of what you say is what is in my heart.

But many say the church (Catholic) is the truth or something like that.

Many people on this site have told me the pope is the authority on earth, but i am with you all.

FOR ME Jesus (PBWH) is my idol i strive to be like Him, to me he is what God wants me to be like. Now days he is what i want to be like.

But i want to be like the other Catholics at mass too, well kinda, maybe not, i just get envious how they all go along with the Church authoirty thing.

But deep inside i need to hold firm to the inspiration of God that Jesus (PBWH) is a way, the model of peace not the one that orders killing.
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Please don’t try changing the subject. If you can’t support that statement you’ve quoted or made up - please withdraw it.​

Evading the issue only makes the evader look dishonest 😦
 
Steven_John said:
Catholics believe Jesus (PBWH) ordered the killing of idol worshipers.
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You are in serious error my friend and have been deceived into believing a falsehood.
The Catholic Church does not teach that Jesus ever ordered the killing of anyone.
 
valient_Lucy said:
Catholics certainly do NOT believe any such thing.

BTW, if Muslims do not believe that Jesus ordered any killing of idol worshipers, then why, three years ago, was a man nearly executed in Afghanistan for converting to Christianity from Islam?
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Was not aware that Jesus (pbwh) ordered them to do it.

Peace and blessings
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

That’s not a point of view - it’s outright fiction. I hope no one will accord it the dignity of a refutation - it is not worthy of one. :mad:​

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I should have phrased it better it was intended as more of a question.

God instructed Moses (pbwh) to kill the people that worshiped the shinny yellow cow.

I was told that Catholics believe Jesus (pbwh) is God, two other people have spoken for Catholic understanding in this thread, very well i may add.

Peace and blessings
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Please don’t try changing the subject. If you can’t support that statement you’ve quoted or made up - please withdraw it.​

Evading the issue only makes the evader look dishonest 😦
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No evasion intended just expansion.

I should have phrased the statment it better it was intended as more of a question. I am not real good with english but with the help of many paitent people here they hep me get there.

This is the support you are looking for.
God instructed Moses (pbwh) to kill the people that worshiped the shinny yellow cow.

I was told that Catholics believe Jesus (pbwh) is God, two other people have spoken for Catholic understanding in this thread, very well i may add.

I have read the quran says Jesus (pbwh) had the pure spirit, For Me the pure spirit does bring peace

Peace and blessings
 
Ignatius said:
You are in serious error my friend and have been deceived into believing a falsehood.
The Catholic Church does not teach that Jesus ever ordered the killing of anyone.
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God instructed Moses (pbwh) to kill the people that worshiped the shinny yellow cow.

I was told that Catholic church teaches Jesus (pbwh) is God, thanks for your testimony they don’t.
Ask a Catholic
I am with earlier posters that say they do, and they explain well the understanding.

Peace and blessings
 
Steven_John said:
God instructed Moses (pbwh) to kill the people that worshiped the shinny yellow cow.

I was told that Catholic church teaches Jesus (pbwh) is God, thanks for your testimony they don’t.
Ask a Catholic
I am with earlier posters that say they do, and they explain well the understanding.

Peace and blessings
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Do you think that it is wrong for God to kill those who He has reason to kill?

The Caananites were wiped out as well. There is another example.

No man may kill innocents, but God may “call to Himself” anyone at any time, for His own reason.

My opinion is that those who SEEM to have been innocents who were killed under order of God Himself might have been given a special “grace” of mercy in their “getting to heaven”, as they MAY not have been at all culpable for their “sins” (because they were only doing as their proper authorities [kings/society] demanded of them), and therefore due no “eternal punishment” for their sins.

((Of course, if this killing was done BEFORE Jesus opened heaven, then they went to sheol, and not heaven or hell, properly speaking.))

Being killed is NOT necessarily a punishment. And doing God’s will is not a sin, as God is God and is to be followed, and has His reasons.
 
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