Catholics cannot accept gay marriage, pope says

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James1215 said:
I’m almost with you, but for two differences.

There could be two types of union- straight/gay without gay sex being sinful
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:hmmm:

I am not quite sure what you mean. Gay sex is regarded as sinful in Catholic theology because it lacks the unitive function of bringing two persons of opposite natures together. It is seen as a distortion of a natural desire.
James1215 said:
Straight marriage is not all about procreation anyway.
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The Catholic Church agrees with you. The unitive function is key. Reproduction may come from that, but is not essential. The Church does not dissolve the marriages of infertile couples, nor does it forbid such persons from marrying.
James1215 said:
Actually I have a third issue, which is that wholeness is not related to one’s gender.
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Well, truth be told I am not comfortable with the belief about the different natures of men and of women. I am simply relaying what the Catholic theology of marriage is.
 
Really sad that the Pope has to repeat the obvious, for those Catholics who have not been following all of the public statements from the hierarchy over the last many years, nor understand the essential and categorical nature of marriage as radically different from the morally illicit behavior engaged in by active homosexuals.

It’s a reaffirmation of the widespread ignorance of contemporary Catholics, most of whom search for “truth” in the populist-driven American mainstream media.
 
SpeakInSilence said:
There is NO evidence at all that there is a gene that causes homosexual desires, there is plenty of evidence that claims that homosexuality was considered a disorder by the DVM and the APA until gay lobbyist forced change. Homosexuality is a sin of the flesh. How does one identify themselves as a homosexual? Because their sexual desires for something that is like themselves, pride and lust.
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Not quite an accurate statement. There is clearly a genetic relationship, based on the results of identical twin studies. It is also true that a specific genome sequence has not yet been identified.
 
James1215 said:
What if the essence of marriage is not limited to heterosexual couples? A union is about more than the flesh, and gay couples can be just as loving as any. It seems like there’s no point reiterating “No to gay marriage!” without also consulting the theology to sustain the statement.
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Okay, here’s where I take theology

[BIBLEDRB]Leviticus 18:22;Romans 1:26-27;Jude 7[/BIBLEDRB]

I love gay people but what they are not taking the right path.
 
It is shocking how many practicing Catholics don’t understand what marriage is. The secular definition of two people loving each other has taken over. The church needs to teach in clear terms what marriage is and why that matters. It should be obvious to Catholics why we can’t accept homosexual unions as marriage, but unfortunately that is not the case. I applaud the Holy Father for teaching us about the Truth and not being afraid to speak against sin.
 
rlg94086 said:
If there is a “gay gene,” it’s a genetic defect that can be repaired. It has no bearing on the sinfulness of homosexual acts. It would be similar to excusing a thief due to kleptomania or a murderer because they have a “hate gene.”

Gay unions are an abomination.
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No they’re not, they’re just different. How do you take the fact that gay sexuality was ordained by God, via the genes He put in humans? Do you disavow evolution?
 
_Abyssinia said:
That is a perfect analogy of why there are 42,000 different Protestant denominations. That is what happens when you do not have an authority to interpret such verses.
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It contradicts any authority Catholicism has not to accept gay unions - it is arguably unChristian.
 
Dale_M said:
:hmmm:

I am not quite sure what you mean. Gay sex is regarded as sinful in Catholic theology because it lacks the unitive function of bringing two persons of opposite natures together. It is seen as a distortion of a natural desire.
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Why is the desire unnatural? The desire is not wished-for by gay people, not a result of pride, but a product of the genes which evolved as a result of God’s plans. If homosexuality is the product of genes, and these genes stretch back to the time before we were human, homosexuality existed before human corruption. It cannot be regarded as intrinsically sinful (which it is not seen as), and it is not wrong simply because it is ordered towards a non-straight union. It would be distorting them to try to impose heterosexuality on gay people, and homosexuality on straight. That is what is in effect unnatural, and Paul’s letter to Rome, for example, deals with Pagan orgies in which ordinary desires were switched in the emotion of the ritual.
Dale_M said:
The Catholic Church agrees with you. The unitive function is key. Reproduction may come from that, but is not essential. The Church does not dissolve the marriages of infertile couples, nor does it forbid such persons from marrying.
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Indeed. So it should be fine with monogamous gay couples, given that unity does not depend upon genital difference. Even the fact that many unions do involve genital difference does not make them intrinsically good or more valuable than those which do not.
 
Contra_Mundum said:
It is shocking how many practicing Catholics don’t understand what marriage is. The secular definition of two people loving each other has taken over. The church needs to teach in clear terms what marriage is and why that matters. It should be obvious to Catholics why we can’t accept homosexual unions as marriage, but unfortunately that is not the case. I applaud the Holy Father for teaching us about the Truth and not being afraid to speak against sin.
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Why is it positively wrong to feel exactly what married couples feel, but outside a relationship sanctified in church? And why would it be wrong in monogamous, consensual, ‘normal’ unions which just happen to be between two gay people?
 
Has anyone noticed the number of angry pro-homosexualist activists around lately? Is something in the air?

What I don’t understand is why can’t people accept we catholics have a particular understanding of human sexuality and just move on? Where is the tolerance and open-mindedness they preach? I guess that’s just a joke. :rolleyes:
 
James1215 said:
It contradicts any authority Catholicism has not to accept gay unions - it is arguably unChristian.
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Really?

You know, Christ Himself spoke about marriage. He said, “a man and a woman cleave together.” Mark chapter 10 verse 6 ] But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. [7] For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. [8] And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. [9] What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
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Christ was not afraid to ‘rock the boat’. IF marriage is only about ‘two people loving each other’, Christ could have said, “two* people who LOVE each other* cleave to each other.”

He didn’t. Christ–who is GOD–said marriage is One Man, One Woman.

I just don’t know how God could have made His teaching on what marriage is any clearer than Christ’s OWN TEACHING on the subject.

And while I love ‘gay’ people as much as straight, I would not be loving them truly if I encouraged them to believe something false ‘true’, or if I encouraged them to sin so that I looked ‘loving’.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Really?

You know, Christ Himself spoke about marriage. He said, “a man and a woman cleave together.” Mark chapter 10 verse 6 ] But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. [7] For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. [8] And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. [9] What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
**
Christ was not afraid to ‘rock the boat’. IF marriage is only about ‘two people loving each other’, Christ could have said, “two* people who LOVE each other* cleave to each other.”

He didn’t. Christ–who is GOD–said marriage is One Man, One Woman.

I just don’t know how God could have made His teaching on what marriage is any clearer than Christ’s OWN TEACHING on the subject.

And while I love ‘gay’ people as much as straight, I would not be loving them truly if I encouraged them to believe something false ‘true’, or if I encouraged them to sin so that I looked ‘loving’.
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Yes indeed Jesus said marriage is between a man and a woman, but he did not say it wasn’t for gay people too! Jesus did not say gay sex was sinful, and it would have been a contradiction if He had. Therefore, we can presume that there ought to be a legitimate form of recognition for serious gay unions. Don’t you agree?
 
James1215 said:
Why is it positively wrong to feel exactly what married couples feel, but outside a relationship sanctified in church? And why would it be wrong in monogamous, consensual, ‘normal’ unions which just happen to be between two gay people?
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I’ll repeat, Mark Chapter 10, verse 6 ]* But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. [7] For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother; and shall cleave to his wife. [8] And they two shall be in one flesh. Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. [9] What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.*

This is in the CONTEXT of Jesus addressing the Pharisees on the subject of divorce, which means in turn He is addressing the subject of marriage itself, because divorce had been permitted by Moses (a man) but was NOT intended by God.

Mark Chapter 10 verse 1
And rising up from thence, he cometh into the coasts of Judea beyond the Jordan: and the multitudes flock to him again. And as he was accustomed, he taught them again. [2] And the Pharisees coming to him asked him: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. [3] But he answering, saith to them: What did Moses command you? [4] Who said: Moses permitted to write a bill of divorce, and to put her away. [5] To whom Jesus answering, said: Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you that precept. "

God’s definition of marriage, you see, is specific --from the time of creation and the first man and woman, God created them for each other --man for woman, woman for man. . .and marriage is a covenant relationship between the two which is not to be broken as the two are one flesh.

Male/male or female/female unions by their nature cannot be one flesh. The two are not made for each other, they do not ‘fit’, they do not procreate, they cannot be one flesh, they cannot marry.
 
_Abyssinia said:
I don’t understand what you mean.
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There are several reasons I think.
  1. Gay sexuality is part of humanity’s design as shown in its genetic basis as long as this precedes the time of the Fall.
  2. The essence of marriage is a kind of love which is also found in gay relationships, building on the desire which was ordained (as above). Marriage cannot work without love, but it can work without children and sex.
  3. The ultimate moral guide is our conscience, and the Bible falls short by this measure unless we accept there is a legitimate space for gay unions too.
 
Quirious said:
Not quite an accurate statement. There is clearly a genetic relationship, based on the results of identical twin studies. It is also true that a specific genome sequence has not yet been identified.
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There *may be *a genetic predisposition that is triggered or turned-on by environmental factors. Some have posisted that even the pre-natal environment affects the expression of the genetic predisposition to SSA.

But so what? Alcoholism and schizophrenia are also genetically influenced. That doesn’t make them “normal”.
 
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