Catholics & Children

  • Thread starter Thread starter Le_Cracquere
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Le_Cracquere

Guest
I was born, raised, and have lived my entire life as an evangelical Protestant, but have felt increasingly drawn toward the Catholic Church by study and by personal cogitation. My wife of thirteen years doesn’t see the appeal, and if I converted, would not come along for the ride. Among many other objections, a major sticking point for her (and for me as well) is what one takes to be Catholic teaching about reproduction—i.e., we gather that Catholic married couples must not only eschew contraception, but must have children if at all possible.

Now, every Catholic argument about children I’ve encountered so far has taken the blessing that is children as a self-evident starting point with which no one could possibly quibble. To put it mildly, we don’t begin at that starting point. In fact, saying that I dislike children doesn’t really cover it: I’m trying to recall a single child that I’ve met over the last year and haven’t felt a strong urge to kick, and I’m drawing a blank. My wife & I could happily go the rest of our lives without ever meeting a child, much less housing one or more, but we get the persistent impression that the Church doesn’t see this as a valid way to live, natural family planning or not. Hope I haven’t hurt the feelings of the countless philoprogenitives on this list, but what, exactly, are an unreconstructed child-hater’s options?

Le Cracquere
 
if they were your own children, or somebody else’s children that you had the chance to discipline properly, they would not be nearly so obnoxious. also if your own views on material possession are in order, they won’t be nearly as expensive as people claim.

seriously, the Catholic Church teaches that the purpose of sex is procreation, which is an easily provable fact using natural law, you don’t even need a bible to deduce that reality. she further teaches that the meaning of marriage is love, its purpose is the procreation and rearing of children and its good fruit is unity, comparable to the unity of Christ with His Church. Indeed, that comparison is what makes marriage a sacrament, a physical sign and reality of Christ’s presence. Because our bodies are created good, and sex is the created means by which we procreate–literally cooperate with God in the divine act of creation–sex is good, and it is pleasurable because it is good. But the pleasure not the ultimate end of the act, that is the act is not undertaken solely for the pleasure but for its end, which is procreation.

obviously with that teaching, sexual activity is forbidden outside marriage, and every marriage must be open to life. that does not mean every marital act or physical contact within marriage must be initiated and consummated for the sole purpose of attempting to conceive, but it does mean that no artificial means whatever, physical barrier, chemical, surgery or practice, can be used to frustrate the natural end of the marriage act. To do so is to profane marriage itself, so sin against oneself and one’s spouse by objectifying each other, and to blaspheme against God’s purpose and law.
 
Keep in mind that up until 1930, every protestant sect also beleived that the use of birth control was contrary to God’s law. In 1930 the Anglican Communion caved in and allowed it. Soon after, every protestant sect followed suit. Now we also see other sects caving into the world and it’s secular ways. I don’t know about you but one of the things that drew me to The Church (I am a convert) is that she hasn’t changed her dogma in 2006 years. This church does not conform to the influnece of secular society, rather it influences secular society. My advice would be to continue your journey toward the Church, pray about it and you will eventually come to embrace all of the teachings. Obiedience to the Church is a difficult thing for most protestants, however, once you make the leap of faith, the rewards and graces you reap are overwhelming! Gob Bless!
 
Le Cracquere:
… we gather that Catholic married couples must not only eschew contraception, but must have children if at all possible.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, it would be more accurate to say that the Church teaches that you must be open to the possibility of life, i.e., procreation. The Church does not demand that anyone have children, only that we don’t set artificial obstacles in the way.
 
My very devout Catholic BIL, 39 (soon to be 40) doesn’t like children…and I mean REALLY doesn’t like children. He accepts that in his case it is better not to marry, and lives a chaste/celibate life.

My other BIL and his wife have been married almost 12 years, would LOVE to have children. But it is not in God’s plan for them.

My dh and I have 2 children, use NFP to postpone having another one soon. And I never really liked children…until I had my first daughter, all of a sudden kids aren’t that bad after all 😛

So, as a Catholic there ARE options, you don’t need to end up with 15 children…but ask yourself: why did you marry if you didn’t want children? Was it for the sex, the companionship, easier to split bills if 2 incomes? Also, WHY don’t you like children? Everyone’s answer is different, everybody’s motives are different…but think about it!

Anna x
 
A couple of thoughts … first, I don’t generally like children either. I don’t dislike them or want to kick them, I just don’t get all warm and fuzzy when I see them, or really know what to do with them – except for my 3, whom I love more than life itself, see as the most interesting, lovable, remarkable people ever created, and so on. Strange, but true. I never wanted children, never had an affinity for them, but dh and I are Catholic and we obeyed the Church’s command to be open to life. Even before giving birth, something changed inside me and I realized I was living for something more important than myself.

My second thought is that if you actively dislike kids, can’t see, even theoretically, the value in having them to society as a whole, and can’t see in any way that creating new life is a part of God’s design … then I’d say you have a long way to go before you’re even close to a Catholic mindset.
 
40.png
dwc:
A couple of thoughts … first, I don’t generally like children either. I don’t dislike them or want to kick them, I just don’t get all warm and fuzzy when I see them, or really know what to do with them – except for my 3, whom I love more than life itself, see as the most interesting, lovable, remarkable people ever created, and so on. Strange, but true. I never wanted children, never had an affinity for them, but dh and I are Catholic and we obeyed the Church’s command to be open to life. Even before giving birth, something changed inside me and I realized I was living for something more important than myself.

My second thought is that if you actively dislike kids, can’t see, even theoretically, the value in having them to society as a whole, and can’t see in any way that creating new life is a part of God’s design … then I’d say you have a long way to go before you’re even close to a Catholic mindset.
Click to expand...
I would like to say “ditto” to everything in this post! That was my experience, too, even down to the detail of having 3 children. The only difference is that I’m a man, and that I wanted children, at least theoretically, because I could at least see that theoretically it would be a good thing, theoretically speaking.

In practice, it’s been a great trip! And I’m saying that with my 2 oldest in their teen years. Lots of tuition, both in the past and in the future, too. :eek:

And your second point is essential. While the church does not require anyone to have children, it does teach that there must be a serious reason for using NFP to avoid having them. Much discussion on these pages seem to ignore that point.

Of course, “serious reason” is up to the judgement of the couple, but one thing I think those with a “Catholic mindset” can agree upon is that a “serious reason” would be one that is not selfish, among other things.

The Catholic mindset includes a deep appreciation of the fact that we’re all called by God, individually and by name, to a particular vocation. That vocation is the way in which God wants us to work to bring others to heaven. For most of us, that primarily means ourselves, our spouse, and our children.
 
Hello and Welcome!

Two books: Open Embrace (by Sam and Bethany Torode) and The Good News About Sex and Marriage (by Christopher West)

Start with Open Embrace. It’s a book on the “openess to children” mindset. It was written by an Evangelical Protestant couple and it is quite revolutionary in its perspective. From personal experience, this book breaks down barriers and softens hearts (especially Evangelical ones) as a wonderful first step.

BUT DON’T STOP THERE. . .

Then, read West’s Good News About Sex and Marriage. It’s all about the Catholic Church’s teaching on sex, marriage, and children. This is such an easy read! It’s in Q&A format. It is very comprehensive and is a wonderful foot-in-the-door to Catholic theology regarding reproduction.

If you have found yourself on this road, it is for a good reason. God always wants you to turn to Him as He constantly calls you towards conversion of heart, mind, and even lifestyle. He is changing you and challenging you in ways you could never expect and NEVER ask for!

God Bless. Please read these books!
 
It’s difficult to understand exactly how much you dislike children.

It certainly would not be good to have them if they are not going to be loved - and the Church does allow Natural Family Planning (this is NOT the rythm method btw).

Or…
You could be similar to how I was.
I didn’t care for children either - until I had my own. Now I’ve had six of them.
It has been a growing experience for me, and God has used the experience to teach me about self sacrifice and unconditional love.

It is possible children may be a positive experience for you. But that is something you don’t figure out until you’re in the midst of it.
 
I meet children every day whom I would like to give a swift kick.

But that is not a valid argument against the life-giving nature God gave us. It is not merely a Catholic thing, it is a human thing.

Your love for children will come when you have your own children -not from looking at anyone else’s.
 
Wouldn’t finding children repugnant be a grave reason for not having children? It sounds like a valid psychological reason to avoid having them to me.
 
40.png
a_cermak:
Wouldn’t finding children repugnant be a grave reason for not having children? It sounds like a valid psychological reason to avoid having them to me.
Click to expand...
It would be a better reason for not marrying, given the Catholic mindset.
 
40.png
anna1978:
So, as a Catholic there ARE options, you don’t need to end up with 15 children…but ask yourself: why did you marry if you didn’t want children? Was it for the sex, the companionship, easier to split bills if 2 incomes? Also, WHY don’t you like children? Everyone’s answer is different, everybody’s motives are different…but think about it!

Anna x
Click to expand...
Many thanks for all the heartfelt & helpful replies. Well, to answer your question, I married because I love my wife and wish to spend my life with her; to me, she’s not a means to children, or a means to any other end. To answer your other question … well, that would take a whole essay. Suffice it to say I find their company tedious and exhausting at the same time, and feel impatient toward them just where a parent probably ought to feel indulgent. I also found childhood a thoroughly dreadful experience, and have no wish to revisit it, even vicariously. (Aha! say all the armchair Freuds. We’ve got him now.) There are almost certainly decent, well-behaved children out there somewhere, but their scarcity has always made me feel as if rearing them is not a job for just anyone, and certainly not for someone whose dominant emotion regarding them is “make it go away.” If I wasn’t feeling dragged powerfully toward the Church, I wouldn’t even be trying to make sense of its doctrine here. But I’m trying.
 
40.png
puzzleannie:
seriously, the Catholic Church teaches that the purpose of sex is procreation,
Click to expand...
Annie left out that there is a unitive aspect to sex as well, which is why each act of intercourse does not need to result in a child. (This results in a strengthening of the marriage bond.)

While it is true if you convert, you are required to abandon any artificial contraception, your non Catholic wife is not bound by that rule. This can create marital problems, but in essence, you are still permitted to have sex with her if she continues to use birth control, although be very careful, and try and talk to her, b/c the pill does not prevent all conceptions, and can cause an early abortion by damaging the lining of the uterus so the baby cannot implant.

The church teaches you are permitted to use NFP to avoid having children for a SERIOUS reason, such as a serious health risk to the mother, serious psycological problems, or serious financial problems. If you thought you or your wife would seriously harm or kill any children born to you, then I agree you should not have any. If you just “don’t like kids”. then pray for a change of heart.

The primary end of marriage is children. You may not think there is any “use” at all for children, but the plain truth is without children, the human race would not contine, and you would have no one to help and support you in your old age. Society would collapse.
If you and your wife choose never to have children, you will still be taken care of in your declining years. There will still be farmers, doctors, electricians, etc. you can call on for help, but that is ONLY because SOMEONE ELSE decided that kids were ok, and had them. THEIR KIDS will be providing for you instead of your own.
 
Artificial birth control is forbidden to all persons - not as a matter of Catholic Doctrine, but as a fact of Natural Law.

Those who practice it make themselves no better than cattle.
 
To clarify an earlier post, the Catholic position is that procreation is A primary reason for the existence of sex, not THE. Perhaps I’m quibbling, but Humanae Vitae cleary cites both procreative and UNITIVE functions of married sex.

John Paul’s theology of the body more fully explores the unitive function and concludes that contraceptive sex undermines the unitive nature of sex as well as the procreative. In short, contraceptive sex subtly changes the nature of the act from a totally mutually giving experience into a mutal taking experience.

Back to your question, what does all this mean about you and kids? It means your distaste for kids is not healthy. Read the gospels. Ask yourself if Jesus would ever have your attitude. Pray and explore why it is that you feel this way. In short, you need to get ‘reconstructed!’ (your word)

Good for you in wondering about it all! Says great things about your heart. After all, the only REAL difference between King Saul and King David was how thoughtful each was regarding his own actions and sins. Conversion can’t occur without introspection.
 
40.png
tjmiller:
Artificial birth control is forbidden to all persons - not as a matter of Catholic Doctrine, but as a fact of Natural Law.

Those who practice it make themselves no better than cattle.
Click to expand...
Your point about the distinction between binding Catholic doctrine & natural law is a fair one, and I can appreciate such a point.

I’d submit, though, that it is precisely cattle whose existences are generally defined and circumscribed by the brute reality of breeding generation after generation of baby cattle. Even if I decided that concraception was wrong, the last thing I’d be tempted to compare it with would be the practices of the animal kingdom.

Also, I’m sure you meant no such thing, but might add a minor word of caution about a closing sentence that could be interpreted as an implied slur upon a man’s wife, if he wanted to take it that way.
 
how does anyone not like chidren if we were once children ourrselves or at least how does one hate all children?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top