Catholics "dabbling" in Protestantism

[kallen]

Hi…I’m from the most Protestant background you can imagine.

I have discovered (and even wrote a short story about it) there are little “p” and Big “P” when it comes to protestantism.

The little p’s deny tradition as having any real importance (which is funny since they create their own traditions) and the Big P’s believe they are merely Reformed Catholics (like Anglicans).

I have discovered over the years that many folk from the Catholic church dabble because they’ve simply never heard a decent homily (unfortunate but not always true) and are struck by a protesant pastor’s passion, and some come for music and various programs.

HOWEVER…I believe they simply did not have the good luck of attending a Catholic church that offered great homilies and good programs and music. For me, I’ve outgrown the need to constantly be entertained and “fulfilled” by contemporary trends. I grew up Protestant and have dabbled in Roman Catholicism because I find such grand beauty and tradition and Word all wrapped into one.

I think some Catholics don’t understand their own Church’s history and fullness of tradition and worship, so they look elsewhere instead of within (much like the old cliche of returning home to discover what really mattered).

I take T. S. Eliot’s words seriously:

“And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.”

Blessings,
K

 

[latisha1903]

Stylteralmaldo:

A new law doesn’t necessarily mean that you throw out the old law. How does CofC feel about the Ten Commandments? Are you saying that you are not bound by these? Thanks.

The NT was the fulfillment of the OT (Matt 26:56) or (Matt 5:17-19). You’ll find several scriptures in the NT that refer back to the OT and many say, “as was written” or “so that the scriptures might be fulfilled” or “which was spoken by the Prophet soandso”. The 10 commandments were not totally purged, cause Jesus quoted some to a person who asked him which commandments we must follow to obtain eternal life (Matt. 19:16-19).

But Jesus gave us the most important commandments in Matt 22:36-40.

The OT consists of over 200 commandments if you keep reading past Exodus, why just take certain commandments and not all - sacrifices, killing your children, dressing in certain clothes, etc…

Basically, the 10 commandments are SOME WHAT carried over in the NT, but we live by the NT and the Bible clearly states that Christ did not come to destroy the law, for those who lived under the law, will be judged by it, but thank God for salvation and Christ’s death

New Covenant of Christ superseded the old
[Cols 2:14-15, Eph 2:1-15, Gal 3:23-25, Rom 7:1-6, Heb. 6:12, 9:15-17]

The Old Testament is not a source for determining to become a Christian [acts 4:12 and romans 1:16] not a guide for Christian worship [cols 3:17 and 2 john 9] not the pattern of the Church [1 cor. 3:11, heb 10:1]

New Testament was given as the binding will of Christ, becoming operative subsequent to his death [heb 9:15-17, luke 10:16, john 16:13]

Romans 15:4 is a good verse

 

[latisha1903]

and as far as using the Bible only

John 20:30 -31 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. ***But ***these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works

but again i’m not here to argue or debate…we’ll most likely leave the same way we came to the board…

God Bless

latisha

 

[latisha1903]

Count Chocula:

Using the Bible as the sole rule of faith is dangerous and very very random.

And, according to the CoC, only and ONLY the Bible actually has any authority in the church, so if only the book itself has authority, who interprets the Bible? And how is it enforced? Assuming that the Bible is the only authority, nothing except the book itself has right to interpretation.

If some one else exerts authority of interpretation then… that must mean that something else besides the Bible has an authority in your church which contradicts what your church claims to believe.

Either that or the Bible is open to open interpertation in which case why would every one believe the church leaders when they should rely on their own interpretation?

BTW, I read the Bible and interpret it in my own way, a way that says the RCC is correct, now disprove my interpretation? Can’t be done. See the problem of the “Bible only” policy?

who interprets the Bible, it doesn’t need interpretation, what is there is there, and with study we are able to come to the same conclusion…if a scripture says that Christ died on a cross, than the died on a cross, what is there to interpret?

we don’t need nor need men in a ‘higher’ postion not appointed by Christ to ‘interpret the Bible’ the Bible is for all to read, and for all to gain an understanding. you interepret it the catholic way because that’s what you’ve been taught. but the catholic church still does not convince me nor will be able to convince me that we need more than the Bible…the scrips that you do provide to not still say anything that says the Bible needs more to it for man to follow, nor that we need men to interpret and tell us what the Bible says…

 

[sparkle]

latisha1903:

and with study we are able to come to the same conclusion…if a scripture says that Christ died on a cross, than he died on a cross, what is there to interpret?

Yes, just like in John 6:53-54: “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

God Bless~~~

 

[iguana27]

sparkle:

Yes, just like in John 6:53-54: “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

God Bless~~~

Exactly Sparkle!

This is the one scripture that my former (non-Catholic) church refused to interpret literally. They tried to claim that it was symbolic speech or a metaphor - but the creation story happened in 6 days, because that’s what the Bible said, so it should be taken word for word…

Thank God for the Church that offers the true flesh and blood of Christ.

God Bless,
Iguana

 

[Malachi4U]

latisha1903:

…i’d hate to get in an arguement over catholicism and my church…because its basically pointless because no one is going to convert, and everyone seems happy as is…/QUOTE]
latisha,

Just a quick point here. People do convert or ‘reconcile’ themselves often, perhaps more then you are aware of. Discussing our Faith does open eyes even if it takes 30 or 40 years. When a seed of truth is planted, a lost sheep often will take that seed and allow it to grow.

Thousands of protestant ministers have ‘reconciled’ themselves back home in the Catholic Church in the last few years. Sometimes hundreds each year! These are just the ministers. Why did they come home? Often because they dabbled in things like the Bible, the Church Fathers or just reading non-bias history.:yup: Some wondered which of the 33,800 plus churches had the one ‘real’ truth.

Evangelization is never pointless. These ministers were not targets of proselytizing either. They usually just discover the truth when they weren’t looking for it.

For some of their stories go to this link:

chnetwork.org/converts.htm

I would also love to talk with you about you church. Start a thread and I’ll see you there! I would love to hear about your Faith. Please share it with us.

A prisoner of Christ

 

[kparlet]

latisha1903:

totally disagree with your last statement…and i will not nor shall ever convert, because the catholic church is not the church that i’ve read in the Bible, and their is no covincing me it is. but we’re all rooted in our beliefs, and and until someone can fully understand another or want to understand another they will never look further. i am a Christian, a member of the Church of Christ [not the ICoC, the UCC, the Boston Coc or anythign to do with alexander campbell.] everything taught in my church i am able to find in the Bible. all references to what ever is taught. and i don’t appreciate that fact that yo could say something is missing, but i admit i feel the same pretty much towards the catholic church. i’m not anti-catholic, nor anti-baptist or anything else. the CoC is not catholic, protestant, jewish, gentile, nor a denomination. but of course until we actually seek the truth we shall never find it…and i have evidence to prove everything that i believe. but i’m not here to convince anyone of that. i’m content.

Just curious as to how you interpret John 6…and I am asking in the spirit of charity.

 

[latisha1903]

kparlet:

Just curious as to how you interpret John 6…and I am asking in the spirit of charity.

John 6 and…an particular verse…we could be here all day with the chapter…

 

[kparlet]

How about just this part:

**51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh." 52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. **

Keep in mind that this all transpired shortly after the miracle on the Mount when Jesus was able to multiply the five loaves of bread and the two fish - forshadowing his ability to multiply himself in the Eucharist.

Well, that’s my interpretation anyway. What’s yours?

 

[latisha1903]

kparlet:

How about just this part:

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh." 52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Keep in mind that this all transpired shortly after the miracle on the Mount when Jesus was able to multiply the five loaves of bread and the two fish - forshadowing his ability to multiply himself in the Eucharist.

Well, that’s my interpretation anyway. What’s yours?

interesting summarization, I’ll have to read more…

 

[mango_2003]

latisha1903:

i would describe my intrest the same…i’m right now somewhat ‘dabbling’ in the catholic faith, and the more grounded i become in mine…no offense…but the way you put it describes it the best…just ‘dabbling’ and becoming stronger in mine.

Me too. Although, “stronger” is a bit too harsh of a word for my case. I live in an area with minimal Roman Catholics, and so to learn more, I enjoy attending Masses. I think it’s kinda fun.

~mango~

 

[Count_Chocula]

latisha1903:

who interprets the Bible, it doesn’t need interpretation, what is there is there, and with study we are able to come to the same conclusion…if a scripture says that Christ died on a cross, than the died on a cross, what is there to interpret?

we don’t need nor need men in a ‘higher’ postion not appointed by Christ to ‘interpret the Bible’ the Bible is for all to read, and for all to gain an understanding. you interepret it the catholic way because that’s what you’ve been taught. but the catholic church still does not convince me nor will be able to convince me that we need more than the Bible…the scrips that you do provide to not still say anything that says the Bible needs more to it for man to follow, nor that we need men to interpret and tell us what the Bible says…

Well don’t worry, I’m not here to argue and debate with animosity. I just want to casually discuss.

Yes, there are a variety of passages and verses in teh Bible that are very plain (i.e. Christ was born in Bethlehem) where are others are far less explicitly evident. (i.e. 2nd Tim 3:16-17) That can be argued for days, however, on the topic of interpretive authority, the Bible very plainly tells us that it is ok and in fact desireable to have some one of a higher authority explain scripture to us.

Do recall Acts 8:30-31

30: And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31: And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
KJV etext.lib.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html

Later on the Ethipoian man in the verse was later baptized and did believe after Philip explained the verses that were being read. So individual interpretation is not necessary and the Bible also clearly shows that some one who “knows what’s going on” should be explaining scripture to others because it is not easily and readily clear to every one.

And if it was so clear and plainly evident then why, through individual study is the church of Christ further and further divided?

 

[Mary3]

St. Monica:

I have heard of Catholics who send their kids to Protestant youth groups, attend Protestant VBS, attend Protestant worship services.

What is the attraction??

Can anyone tell me what the draw is?

I’m not dabbling as you describe, but I have an idea about what the attraction might be. As a former protestant, now grateful Catholic, there is one thing I miss very much about my protestant community. It is the sense of ‘fellowship’, of being welcomed and known by friends.

The Catholic parish I belong to is huge, and rather impersonal. I am familiar with many faces, fewer names, and know VERY few people as friends. It seems that everyone is in such a hurry to ‘do Mass’ on Sunday, then scramble to be the first one out of the parking lot.

I would not leave Catholicism for anything, but there is a real sense of loss of person-to-person contact compared to my protestant experience. Big Catholic parishes can be very lonely places to be. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon9.gif

 

[mkw]

I do not dabble in Protestant faiths, but my son likes attending a Baptist Vacation Bible School with his friends. He goes to be with friends from school, and to be honest, the Baptist churches around where we live have a great VBS program. Full of energy and fun, while teaching about Jesus. To be honest, my local Parish had a very dry and boring VBS this year, with very few children attending.

VBS only lasts 2 hours a night for a week, and my son really enjoys it. The focus is on Jesus, so in and of itself, thats not a bad thing. As long as my household is well founded in our Catholic Faith, I have no problem with a Protestant VBS, just NO services for my boys, they are young and could become very confused about the teachings

I just wish my parish had a HIGH ENERGY VBS, maybe next year.

 

[Fortiterinre]

Mary3:

I’m not dabbling as you describe, but I have an idea about what the attraction might be. As a former protestant, now grateful Catholic, there is one thing I miss very much about my protestant community. It is the sense of ‘fellowship’, of being welcomed and known by friends.

The Catholic parish I belong to is huge, and rather impersonal. I am familiar with many faces, fewer names, and know VERY few people as friends. It seems that everyone is in such a hurry to ‘do Mass’ on Sunday, then scramble to be the first one out of the parking lot.

I would not leave Catholicism for anything, but there is a real sense of loss of person-to-person contact compared to my protestant experience. Big Catholic parishes can be very lonely places to be. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon9.gif

And very orthodox, faithful Catholics can learn a lot about parish life from Protestant communities where every member is presumed to have the duty to welcome visitors and share faith with them. True ecumenism is more than “dabbling”–it’s learning from each other, and the purest orthodoxy doesn’t preclude us Catholics from learning, especially in this area where we have much to learn!

 

[sparkle]

latisha1903:

John 6 and…an particular verse…we could be here all day with the chapter…

Yes, so what do you say about it? How do YOU see it Latisha?

Please give a direct and concise reply for the benefit of all of us who would like to know your views:

God Bless You in Your Journey~~~

 

[latisha1903]

One of Jesus’ miracles, of feeding 5,000 with 5 loaves of bread, and 2 fish. Many came to believe in him and to follow him [v.22, 24-25].

Jesus says there are two kinds of foods [v.27] on that perishes and one that endures.

Food that Perishes
Literally is the food that is eaten [john 4:13] and figuratively [food of wisdom, folly, pleasure, wealth, labor] Ecc 1:17 (solomon found no fullfilment that lasted)

Food that endrues
man truly lives[matt 4:4]
jer 15:16, heb 5:9, john 6:28-29, 40

Jesus is the true bread of life, alone he provides
hope [john 6:40]

question yourself on what ‘food’ you labor for

temporary…or that in Christ Jesus that endures forever

as far as Christ being the Bread of Life in v.51-59 he was using Figurative language and some didn’t understand,[vs. 60-65]

 

[latisha1903]

as far as the Bible being understood…

The writers expected their readers to understand
a. Luke wrote his gospel that one might know - Lk 1:1-4
b. John wrote his gospel that one might believe - Jn 20:30-31
c. Paul wrote for people to understand, to have his knowledge
- 2 Co 1:13; Ep 3:3-5
d. John wrote his epistle that one might know - 1 Jn 5:13
2. Aren’t some things hard to understand?
a. Like some of the things Paul wrote? - 2 Pe 3:15-16
b. Like the book of Revelation?
3. Yes, but that does not mean they cannot be understood
a. It is the “untaught and unstable” that have problems - 2 Pe
3:16
b. We are expected to grow in knowledge - 2 Pe 3:18; Co 1:10
c. As we mature, we are able to handle the “meat” - cf. He 5:
11-14
– The New Testament was written to be understood, though in
progressive stages

A. HE EXPECTS US TO UNDERSTAND HIS WILL…
1. He desires all men to come to a knowledge of the truth - 1 Ti
2:3-4
2. He commands it of His children - Ep 5:17
– Would God desire and command that which is impossible?

B. HE EXPECTS US TO UNDERSTAND IT ALIKE…
1. Jesus prayed for unity among His followers - Jn 17:20
2. Paul commanded Christians to have the same mind - 1 Co 1:10-13;
Ph 2:2
3. There are essentials on which we must be united - e.g., Ep 4:
3-6

WHY SOME DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE
Many make little or no effort
a. They rarely read and study the Bible
b. They therefore remain ignorant
c. They remain babes in their knowledge and understanding
2. Many study for the wrong reasons
a. They may spend a lot of time studying, but with improper
motives
a. To prove themselves right (reading only to justify their
conduct or beliefs)
b. To prove others wrong (reading only to find arguments to
support their position)
3. Many fail to apply their God-given common sense
a. Such as looking up words they don’t understand
b. Such as defining words in their context
c. Such as taking into consideration all that God’s word says
on a subject
d. Such as studying the Bible the way it was written
1) Book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse
2) Starting at the beginning, reading through to the end

 

[Mary3]

Fortiterinre:

And very orthodox, faithful Catholics can learn a lot about parish life from Protestant communities where every member is presumed to have the duty to welcome visitors and share faith with them. True ecumenism is more than “dabbling”–it’s learning from each other, and the purest orthodoxy doesn’t preclude us Catholics from learning, especially in this area where we have much to learn!

I agree that we Catholics need to study the Protestant practice of hospitality. This is a virtue we can agree on, and the Protestant communities I have experienced seem more advanced than we Catholics.