Catholics "dabbling" in Protestantism

[Melchior]

latisha1903:

The NT was the fulfillment of the OT (Matt 26:56) or (Matt 5:17-19). You’ll find several scriptures in the NT that refer back to the OT and many say, “as was written” or “so that the scriptures might be fulfilled”…

*Matthew 5:17-18

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished."*

According to Jesus the law is not abolished. Unfortunately, many people seem to think fulfill and abolish mean the same thing. Christ did fulfill the law. But he did not do away with it. Indeed He is the only one who has ever kept it perfectly.

Without the law there is no Gospel. The law shows us we are sinners and condemns us. The Gospel then saves us by freeing us from the curse of the law. The law and the Gospel go hand in hand. You cannot preach teh Gospel without first preaching the law. The law kills us because the law is good and God’s perfect standard. The Gospel brings us back to life as often as we are slain by the law provided we repent and believe the Gospel.

So the Ten Commandements are eternal because the are they are God’s law - His standard. Christ alone fulfills the law for us and if we are in Him, we can then begin to obey the law, even if imperfectly because of His merits. Without the law how would you know how to behave?

Law and Gospel - One coin; two sides.

Mel

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

latisha1903, please respond to this so I can better understand your Church’s teaching. Thanks!

grigaitis.net/articles/cocdenom.html

…There is no historical evidence that shows another Christian Church existed between the forth and sixteenth century. With no historical evidences beyond the nineteenth century to prove their existence, some claim that the Church of Christ was in hiding from the Catholic Church. It is unlikely that a group like this could exist without leaving their mark on history, but it is possible…If the Church of Christ was Christ’s true church, then it is possible that through divine intervention the church was kept hidden. However, from the time of the Reformation until the restoration movement there were three hundred years that the Church of Christ would have no reason to hide. During these three centuries, there still remains no evidence of the existence of the Church of Christ, the only reason for this is because it did not exist…

…Although the Church of Christ and the other restoration churches only succeeded in creating new denominations within Christianity, we must applaud their efforts and intentions. These churches recognized the error of denominationalism within Christianity, and that Christ did not want this of his Church. They have made an attempt to restore the church of the New Testament, and abandon denominationalism. In this attempt they are in union with the Catholic Church, which also sees the error of denominationalism… The Catholic Church accepts all Christians as members, though not in full communion, and is working towards greater union with its separated brethren. In this regard the Church of Christ and the Catholic Church have a common goal, that all followers of Christ may be united under the name Christian.

 

[David_F]

Mary3:

I’m not dabbling as you describe, but I have an idea about what the attraction might be. As a former protestant, now grateful Catholic, there is one thing I miss very much about my protestant community. It is the sense of ‘fellowship’, of being welcomed and known by friends.

The Catholic parish I belong to is huge, and rather impersonal. I am familiar with many faces, fewer names, and know VERY few people as friends. It seems that everyone is in such a hurry to ‘do Mass’ on Sunday, then scramble to be the first one out of the parking lot.

I would not leave Catholicism for anything, but there is a real sense of loss of person-to-person contact compared to my protestant experience. Big Catholic parishes can be very lonely places to be. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon9.gif

Hello Mary,

I too attend a large Catholic church (3rd largest in Texas), so I know how you feel about being lonely in the midst of all those people because that is how I felt when I joined my parish. I hope your parish affords you the opportunity to grow in your faith through the fellowship of other parishioners like mine does. Our parish has many different ministries for anyone to join (including our protestant brethern, and some do). I am very active in my parish because of these ministries. By joining several different ministries, I have met hundreds of fellow parishioners and many have become dear friends over the past 4 years. I even met my wife through a yound adult retreat offered by our Church. If your parish does not offer these sort of opportunities, email me (dfernandez3@satx.rr.com) for some ideas of ministires you can develop in your parish ( with the approval of your DRE and pastor of course).

As you have pointed out, it seems like some people only go to mass out of obligation and not a genuine love for Christ. Evidence that even the “churched” also need to be evangelized!

Peace be with you,
David

 

[kparlet]

as far as Christ being the Bread of Life in v.51-59 he was using Figurative language and some didn’t understand,[vs. 60-65]

I could see how you could think that way, but I’ve always wondered…it that was the case, if Jesus was in fact speaking figuratively…then why do you suppose he didn’t correct those who left him - why didn’t he say, “No, no, no, you all misunderstood me. I didn’t mean you actually have to eat my body and drink my blood, I was just speaking figuaratively.” Why didn’t he call them back and why did he then turn to his Apostles and ask them if they were going to leave Him too?

 

[Eric_Goodrich]

This “dabbling” stuff sounds like you compare attending a “protestant church” to the occult! Different Christian Church’s worship in different manners, within denomonations, within synods, and even if you attend 5 Catholic Parish’s on any given Sunday. When I was a child the Catholics and Lutherans did more than “dabble”. Every Saturday evening, we would have a summer service the same time as Saturday evening mass as the Catholic Church across the street. Our Pastors and the Priests across the street wanted to act as good Christians should and try to show some unity and brotherhood by taking turns hosting the service. One Saturday we would meet at Calvary Lutheran and then as a congregation, walk across the street to join in the Catholic Mass where our Pastor would give the sermon, the following week the Catholics would come to join us and their Priest would give the Sermon in our church. I always cherish these memories because of the unity that was shown and in the true Spirit of Christ that was present.

It is not so different if you break down things to what is really important in worship. Our services are almost identical, Lutheran services tend to have much more congregation participation, singing, and an inspirational Gospel driven sermon, where the Catholic Service is so beautiful to watch, so ornate and inspiring. I can understand the draw for a Christian to either. If you wish to analyze theological differences, you can.

Do Lutherans believe that they are partaking in the same body and blood of Christ as Catholics? Yes Do Lutherans confess their sins before they partake in the Lords Supper? Yes Do Lutherans Do Catholics and Lutherans recite and believe in the same Nicene and Apostles Creed and profess our beliefs during every Mass? Yes

Say what you may, but your “beliefs” are a personal thing. No Church can make you believe everything it teaches. You must decide for yourselves. Salvation is between you and your Savior. The Joint Declaration between Lutherans and Catholics really does enforce what many of us already know. It’s not the road you have taken to Christ, it’s the final destination and the people you are able to bring on the way that matters!

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

Eric Goodrich:

This “dabbling” stuff sounds like you compare attending a “protestant church” to the occult!..

…Our services are almost identical, Lutheran services tend to have much more congregation participation, singing, and an inspirational Gospel driven sermon, where the Catholic Service is so beautiful to watch, so ornate and inspiring. I can understand the draw for a Christian to either. If you wish to analyze theological differences, you can…

…It’s not the road you have taken to Christ, it’s the final destination and the people you are able to bring on the way that matters!

I hope you don’t get that impression from me. I suppose dabbling is a poor choice of word. I noticed many of the same things you mentioned when I attended Lutheran services. I liked that they prayed the Nicene Creed. They changed the word “catholic” to “universal” but essentially was unchanged otherwise. I truly love attending other church services to see how others worship.

What is the best way to bring others to God? Living a Christ-filled life. What does that mean? It certainly doesn’t mean ripping apart others faith systems. I do like to question others faith however (call it debate if you will). This allows me to grow deeper in faith and become closer to God that way.

 

[Hlebear]

Latisha,

You stated in your post that Christ was using figurative language and some of the disciples didn’t understand this, and this is why the left him. In (John 6:51–52), Chist states,"
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." 52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
The Jews understood that this was a literal statement and their response tells Jesus that they are believing it to be literal and not figurative speech. What did Jesus say next ?
In John 6: 53-54, Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54 Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
He did not tell them that he was speaking figuratively- he does not correct their belief. He restates it even more strongly.

In John 6: 60-61,
The Bible states,"Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”
61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you?
Notice Christ knows what he has been saying is shocking to the Jews.

In John 6: 66-69,
the Bible states,"
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. 67 Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.” This was a hard saying to accept, but the apostles believed in Jesus and had to follow him in all things.

 

[Hlebear]

The New Testament also reinforces this belief.
1 Corinthians 10:16, Paul states,"“The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?”

In 1 Corinthians 11:26-30, Paul states,"
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 28 A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. 29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.
Paul statements also support the real prescence and not symbolic. You must discern the body. May I ask how can one commit an offense against a symbol that is worthy of illness and death?

There are also many historical records that support this belief, written by the early Christians, but my posts are getting quite long.

 

[latisha1903]

Stylteralmaldo:

latisha1903, please respond to this so I can better understand your Church’s teaching. Thanks!

grigaitis.net/articles/cocdenom.html

you can find a lot of stuff online…that doesn’t make it correct or accurate…people can write all they want…that doesn’t make it the law, or make it the way it is…what more is there to say?

 

[latisha1903]

Hlebear:

Latisha,

You stated in your post that Christ was using figurative language and some of the disciples didn’t understand this, and this is why the left him. In (John 6:51–52), Chist states,"
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." 52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
The Jews understood that this was a literal statement and their response tells Jesus that they are believing it to be literal and not figurative speech. What did Jesus say next ?

we all come here believing what we believe and shall leave believing what we believe. what i stated was sufficent enough for me, not here to convert anyone or to really get anyone to understand my position. read yours, mines is sufficent enough for me. and i just say we can all agree to disagree. because i see if even i continue to quote and give sources to what i believe you are all going to do the same to try and refutue it and vice versa, and where does that get us? especially if one of us, being me, isn’t trying to convert, and simply answering what was asked, and that isn’t sufficent enough for you…but for me it is, and i’m just convicted in my faith as you are, and i’m very aware of that, and think no more of this than “hey i’m at a catholic message board, and what they say is what they believe and thats cool, but i’m satisfied and faithful in what i believe also”

God bless,

latisha

 

[kurt]

mkw:

I do not dabble in Protestant faiths, but my son likes attending a Baptist Vacation Bible School with his friends. He goes to be with friends from school, and to be honest, the Baptist churches around where we live have a great VBS program. Full of energy and fun, while teaching about Jesus. To be honest, my local Parish had a very dry and boring VBS this year, with very few children attending.

VBS only lasts 2 hours a night for a week, and my son really enjoys it. The focus is on Jesus, so in and of itself, thats not a bad thing. As long as my household is well founded in our Catholic Faith, I have no problem with a Protestant VBS, just NO services for my boys, they are young and could become very confused about the teachings

I just wish my parish had a HIGH ENERGY VBS, maybe next year.

I am a former southern baptist who converted to catholicism at about 28 years old ( I am now 42). I have been to many VBS’s in my youth and just want to encourge you to have a very active discussion about what your kids are learning there. The baptist church teachings are very different from the catholic church and are many times very negative toward the church from my experience. If I had not married a catholic I would probably still believe most of the VERY negative things i was taught in church and VBS toward catholics. Make sure your kids stay strong in the faith! Protestant churches are very warm and charismatic ( we should be also, but maybe it has something to do with age, we are old folks (2000 years old) and they are youngsters!) and so are very inviting, especially to youngsters. But we have the fullness of faith that will give great comfort till the end.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

latisha1903:

you can find a lot of stuff online…that doesn’t make it correct or accurate…people can write all they want…that doesn’t make it the law, or make it the way it is…

A true enough statement. I find plenty of stuff on the internet that makes claims against the Catholic Church that isn’t true. I’m sure Church of Christ runs into the same.

latisha1903:

…what more is there to say?

I was hoping you could respond to the comment and respond as to why he is wrong. I was hoping you could clear up some misconceptions about your faith as you see it.

Thanks. I appreciate your time and comments. God bless you.

BTW, if you don’t wish to go deeper than we have to this point, I understand, however you are the first CofC member I have ever encountered and I have plenty of questions. I’m not looking for a debate really, just information. Religion is a fascinating endeavor for me. I admit that I try to find sources (pro & con) to support or refute your position. I have referenced a site you gave to us and asked a question about it. I also referenced a site that was refuting what you believe. Your responses to these help me understand you as well as your faith a little better.