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kristie_m
Guest
Even the descriptions with models are pretty hard to take. These are from Fr. Pavone with Priests for Life:
youtube.com/watch?v=us_y9GP_-DA
youtube.com/watch?v=QBOAPleF1t0&feature=related
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youtube.com/watch?v=us_y9GP_-DA
youtube.com/watch?v=QBOAPleF1t0&feature=related
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TenBobNote
Guest
I do not believe that to be sufficient evidence that someone is pro abortion, after mass a couple years ago George Bush bumper stickers where around. This is the same time when congress was controlled by republicans, the republicans that could have easily gotten rid of Roe vs. Wade… If you want a bumper sticker of a real pro life politician here he is, thenewamerican.com/culture/family/718
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TenBobNote
Guest
Luke 12: 49-53, The words of Jesus Christ.
49 "I came to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already set ablaze! 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how it consumes Me until it is finished! 51 Do you think that I came here to give peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 52 From now on, five in one household will be divided: three against two, and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son, son against father, mother against daughter, daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law, and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. "
po18guy
Well-known member
I think that, if their origins are probed, we will find that they are an “Alinsky” group. Just Google “Saul Alinsky” a 1960s radical who is the father of American subversion. He is the spiritual father of A.C.O.R.N., who begot Obama.
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rlg94086
Guest
That’s a ridiculous statement.
po18guy
Well-known member
Roe v. Wade is not a law. It is a binding Supreme Court decision. Thus, politicians cannot “vote it out” or pass a law banning it. What many in this thread are talking about is the President’s unprecedented expansion of abortion, and now providing you with the duty to pay for it.
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TenBobNote
Guest
Please explain why this is a ridiculous statement. But first let me further explain. I find that many people claim that just because Bush is the better of two evils that he was acceptable. Bush did not make it a priority to save millions of innocent infant’s lives during his eight years of presidency.
The supreme court cannot be overruled in cases that are stated explicitly by the Constitution, the abortion issue however, is obviously unconstitutional and any one with the power of the president and the backing of congress could surely make a strong case that it is unconstitutional and therefore could be overruled by congress thus eliminating any federal law for abortion and leaving it up to the respective states, restoring it to the pre-Roe vs. Wade era.
I for one will not sell out and vote for the lesser of two evils, the only politician I can trust because of his voting record and apparent morals is congressman Ron Paul, he is one of the very few people who would actually do something with the abortion issue if elected president. Advertising Bush or Mccain for their pro life issues is like saying you don’t mind giving up some of the morals that have been already given up so long as it is not giving up more.
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hazmae
Guest
Code:
I do not have the ability to fully jugde the motives or logic of other people. I DO know that those who call themselves "Catholics for Choice" have no righteousness on their side. Sugarcoating the truth does a disservice to God's Kingdom, I believe. One *can* be kind and discreet while reaching a given individual, but being clear and unapologetic is a necessity. Read "Forbidden Grief" by Teresa Burke, and see the tip of the iceberg of the great tragedy of human abortion. God Bless, RobHer mind was changed through compassion and understanding. And some direct but not condemning talk.
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hazmae
Guest
I’ll try this again. computer seized and it got lost.
If Ron Paul had any chance to win I would have voted for him. However, he did not and a vote for Paul was actually a vote for Gore. I agree that voting for the lesser of two evils is not a good choice but sometimes it’s the only choice you have. Bush signed the PBA ban. Clinton had more than one chance to sign it. Gore would not have signed it and it goes without saying that Obama will reinstate it if he can. Because of Bush it is no longer legal to stab a newborn in the head.
Voting for Paul is like the two men in the leaking boat. One grabs the smallest bucket and starts to bail. The other grabs the biggest bucket, which sounds like the best choice, but in the end he couldn’t lift it so as he’s struggling with the big bucket full and getting nowhere the other guy is bailing the boat in small steps.
I know this is off topic for this thread so if you want to continue this start a thread Bush/Gore/Obama or what did Bush do or something and I’ll join you there.
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rlg94086
Guest
Your further explanation is superfluous. It was a ridiculous statement, because there wasn’t a pro-life majority. It is as ridiculous as saying Democrats could easily pass a complete government-run health care plan.
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cargau
Guest
Pardon my boldness, but we must know their motives and rationale if we are to provide a convincing rebuttal. I do not believe for a moment that any of the pro-choice people woke up one day and say, “Hey, I think I’m gonna be evil today!” They believe that they have a moral imperative to be pro-choice. They believe that they are on the side of righteousness. So, by understanding the premise on which that assertion was drawn, pro-life people can effectively counter the conclusion.
I believe the Bible says not one among you is righteous. The group is evil. The people are just people like you and me who have been led away. Should we “sugarcoat” it? No. Should we condemn abortion? yes. Should we condemn THEM? I don’t believe so. I know of just one baby’s life God used me to save through discussion with a mom who was going to have an abortion. I did NOT convince her to keep her baby by telling her what a sinner she was or how she would go to hell for killing her baby.
Her mind was changed through compassion and understanding. And some direct but not condemning talk.
Great story, Hazmae. We are all sinners looking for holiness (some more than others). I believe that one does not condemn any sinner. Rather, we should all work together to bring all to the light of Christ. As a community of believers, we need each other. We need support, encouragement and understanding, not condemnation.
I am not saying that we should roll over and accept their argument as truth. I am saying that we should speak the truth with conviction and love.
All this talk about division…well to the best of my recollection there has been nothing but division since '73. Maybe it’s time to show others what being Christian is really all about!
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Fidelis_Unus
Guest
Ahhhhhh
kindly bit your tongue. (figuratively, of course) 
The Dems almost got away with exactly that, no? Still, we need to be praying harder and making our voices heard.I personally know many people who voted for Obama because of many other Social Justice issues. I don’t agree with them at all, but I can see that, for them, it was hard to choose who to support and their hearts were aching for the poor and underprivileged. Misguided though they may be, many really are trying to do the right thing. Sounds arrogant, since I presume to know the Truth, but there you have it.
I do completely agree with your post. rlg
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steve711
Guest
I personally would not want to stand before Jesus when and if the time comes and say I was for abortion. I have enough sins to be judged on, let alone abortion or murder. I due pray that abortion will end some day, but like others on this forum, I too believe that we in this country will pay for this enormous sin.
I also believe that others can be led astray through modern society espousing lies like women should have a choice, and politicians who are very convincing in their lies about abortion. But we must remember, who is truly behind all these things and takes every opportunity to corrupt, deceive, and lie.
Go with Gods Grace!
I also believe that others can be led astray through modern society espousing lies like women should have a choice, and politicians who are very convincing in their lies about abortion. But we must remember, who is truly behind all these things and takes every opportunity to corrupt, deceive, and lie.
Go with Gods Grace!
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Michael_Leonard
Guest
Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
Any one person can say they are anything but this does not make it so. I can say I am a tree or a dog or whatever comes to my mind, yet this does not make it so. Being Catholic is simply obeying the laws of God through the authority of His Church which He started when He lived as one of us. Jesus Christ our Savior established His Church through the line of St. Peter when He told them(all the apostles and disciples) that Peter was the rock upon which He was going to build His church, and whatever He bound on earth would be bound in Heaven and whatever He loosed on earth would be loosed in Heaven. The authority of the Church Jesus Christ established on earth runs through the line of St. Peter, who after being martyred in Rome was succeeded by an apostolic line of popes. These popes where infallible in the teachings of Jesus from Peter until now. There shall be one voice one shephard. The Catholic Church lay persons have and always will believe this until Jesus Christ, who is returning now, completes His return through as many of us as will accept Him by following His will. As there has been in the past, their will always be wolves among us who seek to do their own will instead of God’s , may they all repent before it is too late for their own souls to do so, during the final test which is coming soon.
By their fruits we shall know them, says our Lord and Savior. They shall call what is good evil and what evil good. To those who stand firm in the faith will be given food from the tree of life. We are not to fear those who can kill our bodies, but not our souls. Also we should remember that Jesus is with us always. We are not to put our faith in any one man on earth but in Jesus Christ and His Church.
Any one person can say they are anything but this does not make it so. I can say I am a tree or a dog or whatever comes to my mind, yet this does not make it so. Being Catholic is simply obeying the laws of God through the authority of His Church which He started when He lived as one of us. Jesus Christ our Savior established His Church through the line of St. Peter when He told them(all the apostles and disciples) that Peter was the rock upon which He was going to build His church, and whatever He bound on earth would be bound in Heaven and whatever He loosed on earth would be loosed in Heaven. The authority of the Church Jesus Christ established on earth runs through the line of St. Peter, who after being martyred in Rome was succeeded by an apostolic line of popes. These popes where infallible in the teachings of Jesus from Peter until now. There shall be one voice one shephard. The Catholic Church lay persons have and always will believe this until Jesus Christ, who is returning now, completes His return through as many of us as will accept Him by following His will. As there has been in the past, their will always be wolves among us who seek to do their own will instead of God’s , may they all repent before it is too late for their own souls to do so, during the final test which is coming soon.
By their fruits we shall know them, says our Lord and Savior. They shall call what is good evil and what evil good. To those who stand firm in the faith will be given food from the tree of life. We are not to fear those who can kill our bodies, but not our souls. Also we should remember that Jesus is with us always. We are not to put our faith in any one man on earth but in Jesus Christ and His Church.
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Fidelis_Unus
Guest
This part was very well-put. There are groups out there that are approaching it this way. Did you know that there is an Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League and my favorite, godlessprolifers. They’ve been very respectful.
My Pro-Life efforts and many others whom I have watched, have been really hindered by talk of God and Jesus and faith to people who do not believe in God or Jesus or have no faith. NOT that I hide my faith, I absolutely do not. I do recognize, however, that people that I am trying to reach are often not ready or able to hear the message about God and shut down the minute the conversation goes this way. Rather, I’m learning how people without faith came to their beliefs about the value of life. This helps me to be more able to reach out and, maybe someday, save a life and prevent someone from being drawn further from God by their sin. Chanting Jesus loves the little children means nothing to someone who has no faith, at least in my experience. In fact, they often shut down.
It’s about humanity, this is an issue for humanity. Yes it’s a religious issue, but it is a human rights issue. How I approach the issue is driven by my faith, but we’re still talking about humanity here.
Groups like Catholics for Choice are driven by those who are all about attacking Organized Religion (that one always gets me. Who wants Disorganized Religion?, but i digress). Satan is diabolical and I’m continually amazed at both his insidiousness and his cleverness. We still now, ultimately, who wins this war and can only do our part in the battles put before us. So we pray for people like Sister Donna Quinn and members of this groups that their hearts are opened and the seeds of their efforts wither and die, the damages mitigated and that Love will prevail.
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Heavens_Flowers
Guest
I opened a social forum called Pro-Life you can get to it by looking on my member page under groups. On there a woman who had an abortion, shared her story and her truth and pain brought tears to my eyes. I encourage everyone to read it, she herself would like every eye possible to read it so they know that abortion is murder.Please read it.
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RosaryFan
Guest
Sadly, I’m sure many people in the pews support abortion rights, even if they don’t belong to a formal organization. I guess they don’t realize that by their actions in the pro-abortion movement, they are putting their souls at risk and, therefore, excommunicating themselves (albeit unbeknownst to them) from the Church.
We are lucky - we have a priest who is not afraid to say during a homily that if you support abortion, you are in grave danger of losing your soul. God bless him!
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edwest2
Guest
Great story, Hazmae. We are all sinners looking for holiness (some more than others). I believe that one does not condemn any sinner. Rather, we should all work together to bring all to the light of Christ. As a community of believers, we need each other. We need support, encouragement and understanding, not condemnation.
I am not saying that we should roll over and accept their argument as truth. I am saying that we should speak the truth with conviction and love.
All this talk about division…well to the best of my recollection there has been nothing but division since '73. Maybe it’s time to show others what being Christian is really all about!
I was there in 1972 when a woman appeared on TV and begged everyone to have compassion on young women who would die at the hands of back-alley abortionists. How could we, meaning Catholics, turn our backs on them? You know what? In 1972 we still respected authority, we still believed what we heard on TV. And this same woman said, “Abortion is likely the most difficult decision a woman will ever have to make and is between her and her God.” We did not realize we were being lied to. We thought Abortion Was Only To Be Used In Cases of Rape, Incest and to Save the Life of the Mother. But shortly after, God disappeared from the equation as well.
When standing in front of an abortion clinic, I don’t tell the women going in what to do. I hold a sign with the Blessed Virgin. I pray along with the people with me. Sometimes, being a witness is enough. There are no arguments. One day, a man in a van pulled up and thanked us for what we were doing. Most of the time, cars would drive by and people would yell something or give an obscene gesture.
Recently, the new Bishop of Detroit led a group in prayer in front of an abortion clinic. For Catholics, the only choice is life.
And to this day, there are people who believe, or want to believe, the “baby” is just a blob of tissue, that it’s not a human being. Everyone reading this began life as a human embryo.
Peace,
Ed
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Aboveallbereal
Guest
I think strong leadership would have two basic results.
- Shore up the confidence fo people who are loyal to the Church but badly led.
- Frankly winnow out a lot of the A la cartes who are de facto protestants of one hue of another but feel entitled to be both within and without the Church.
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Holly3278
Guest
Any “Catholic” who supports this group is not a true Catholic in my own opinion.
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