Catholics for Muslims

[Steven_John]

Peace and blessings to you all, i would like you to consider next Sundays Gospel with me, so together we may grow a greater love for the way of Yeshua (pbwh).

Next Sundays Good news

Luke 13:1-9 (New International Version)

Luke 13
Repent or Perish
1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

6Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’

8" ‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’ "

Sorry i do not have The Jerusalem Bible quoted but i think NIV is very close to the message in both.

The first half i would like you to not consider Muslims but only our selves.

John 8:4,7 (New International Version)

4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.
…
7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.”

For me i see sin is sin, some sin or lots of sin any sin makes us like all sinners.

What does G-d in justice do to sinners?

The second part for me shows Our Father, the just land owner, Israel the Fig tree, the vines the rest of the world, Yeshua (pbwh) the gardener.

Now for me G-d is saying Israel is not producing fruit so needs to be cut off, she is in sin, sin is G-ds enemy, G-d is just, but Yeshua (pbwh) asks for time to care and nercher her with the aim to bare fruit pleasing to G-d. Obviously G-d intended her to bare fruit or she would not have been planted. G-d never intended her to be His enemy.

Simple stuff i reckon.

Who is Yeshua (pbwh) on earth today, i would suggest that Catholic teaching says you as Catholics are part of his body, so would do his work as he would.

Note you are not G-d, you are Yeshua (pbwh)

Now consider how did Yeshua (pbwh) teach we are to treat each other and how to treat our enemy’s.

Matthew 5:43-45 (New International Version)

Love for Enemies
43"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies** and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous**

I suggest Yeshua (pbwh) actually teaches love your enemy don’t cut them down. The Gardener cares and looks after the tree, (the enemy of G-d) he actually steps up to help the enemy not be cut down.

Considering many today see Islam as “The enemy”, “of the enemy”, “ground for the enemy” can we now apply the same parable seeing Islamic religion as a substitute for the fig tree?

If look with an honest heart i have been the enemy, sin is sin. So i could be the fig tree, do i want to be cut down or loved and cared for?

The gardener > Yeshua (pbwh) > you actually do nerchering things to the tree. We dont slay it, we dont, shove to much fertiliser to fast we give it little bits to start and more as it gets strength we water it etc.

The image of the gardener is one who sees the tree is not producing fruit and gives of their time and effort wanting it to bare fruit.

The gardener intercedes on the sinners behalf with mercy.

I could use other scripture and argue this down to say you are called to be just and kill the tree, but consider if you have ever prayed the Lords prayer.

You said to My Father forgive my sins as i forgive the sins of others.

Any sin is sin, you asked My Father to judge you this way, My Father gives you so much of what you want.

In old days of Israel saying any thing 3 times makes it absolute, if you have prayed the Lords prayer 3 times or more, look at your actions, If you say Jesus is my way and are not caring for those you see as sinners will he deny you?

Lots of people see me as a Muslim defender and plonk me into the enemy box, it is true i do and will defend their right to love and every ray of My Fathers light i see from them.
But if you really look hard most of the time it is some of us i am defending from our own “false religion” way.
I am here for goodness in you but if it is in them then i am here for them.
You were given the covenant.
My Father will bless them.
It is the covenant they are to blesses through so your bible says, I am witness to it and we are witness of each other.

I love you and them, there are many great interpretations of scripture, i urge you to pray this Sunday and see if any of this post is true for you, If it is ask Our Father what actions of love are to come.

If you seen any good in this post know it is not me or my words but He who loves you better than i do.

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

 

[Holly3278]

Ok, I’ll bite. I agree with you that we should be charitable to Muslims. However, as the title of the encyclical “Caritas in Veritate” shows, we are to share the Truth in love! If it offends you that we are exposing Islamic lies for what they are then too bad. You’ll just have to deal with that because Christ also called us to expose lies for what they are. I know that you probably believe that Islam is the true path. You don’t explicitly say that you are Muslim but I suspect that you are a Muslim or at least you have some strong Islamic tendencies. But anyway, back to the main point. It is good to be charitable but we are also to share the Truth in a loving manner. We are also called to expose lies. I’m sorry but you can’t cherry pick Christ’s teachings.

NOTE: I am not attempting to accuse you of anything. I am merely attempting to practice what I preach by sharing the Truth in love.

May the peace of Christ be with you always,
Holly

 

[Steven_John]

Ok, I’ll bite.

not looking for bites.

I am merely attempting to practice what I preach by sharing the Truth in love.

How is that inconsistent with my post???

 

[planten]

Holly has come around to the good invitation of Steven John with some difficulty. Holly insists on exposing falehood, specially that of Islam. How bad? Why not look for the log in their own eye, as advised by Jesus.

I have no problem if any Catholic points out the faults of Islam to me genuinely. But here are many who try to dig out false accusations against islam and the beloved prophet of all the Muslims. They try to judge Islam and Muslims. That was also forbidden by Jesus.

Most of the time, the Catholics accuse Islam of using the sword, even though the word "Sword= Saif " is not found in the Quran at all. See the whole Quran. You will not find the word “Sword.” But Sword is found at few places in the bible:

1. Jesus advised every one to buy swords even by selling clothes.
2. Jesus said “Who ever uses the sword will be killed by the sword.”
3. They said, “master, we have two swords.” Jesus said. “That is enough”
4. One disciple took out the sword and cut the ear of a soldier. Jesus told his follower to put back the sword.

So we see sword in bibleNT.
The number 2 mentioned above allows Muslims to use the sword against any one who brings sword into play. Jesus had said 'Those who use the sword will be killed by the sword." There were many pagans and Roman Catholic soldiers who came to annihilate the Muslims with their superior weaponery (swords and arrows). What were the Muslims supposed to do?? But the Catholics keep on blaming Muslims.

It shows that they have no real knowledge about their own books, about the real teachings of Jesus. Jesus advised them not to Judge. But they insist on judging the Muslims. They never see their own backyard is full of bad theology.

Steven John, or any one else, all need to be calm and approach discussions with love. We Muslims will never mind if we are approached in a decent manner, in the manner Jesus used to do the preaching. That type of preaching will always be welcome. Preach as much as you like. But not with hatred against Muhammad or Islam.

I feel that Steven John has given some guideline to all here, mostly to the christians because he is a christian. Hopefully, The Muslims will repond positively.

 

[seraphime2008]

Planten,
U think that Christians are to be accused for the war that is happening in muslim’s world?
I can only see that the Taliban is the one that suppressed their fellow muslims, women have to be hidden in the backyard earning no pride, no identity, based on their understanding of no other than the Koran interpretation, and u’re accusing that we Christians are to be blamed for that?

Muslims are killing each other the Sunni to the Shiite, to Ahmady and the other way round, and u’re accusing that Christians take advantage out of it?

Many people in islamic country are still left behind, lack of knowledge, lack of welfare, and u’re accusing it’s the Christian fault? They flew to the more advance country just to have a clash of civilization and then cry for their so called rights that is in direct opposition to the equality and just of the secular values?

Man, please if u say that u’ve to see the log in your eyes first, than u’ve to do it too with your religion of Islam. Christian never fear to do evaluation of what is going wrong with the society, it’s just that muslims find it difficult to do the evaluation to themselves since they are not advised to do so.

Even that we don’t find the word sword in koran, the reality is that most terror in the modern world now are done in the name of Islamic defense, which is taken from the interpretation of Koran. And you’re saying that the Christians are to be blamed for this terror, they deserve it?

 

[Holly3278]

not looking for bites.

How is that inconsistent with my post???

First of all, could you please try to be more charitable in your post to me? I was charitable to you so show me the same favor please. You may not think that I was being charitable to me but I actually tried as hard as I could to be charitable. I think I deserve the same favor.

Second, I am not entirely sure that what I said is inconsistent with your post at all. I did not read your entire post and for that, I apologize. I read through about half your post and received the impression that kindness included not exposing error for what it is. Regardless, my point about exposing the falsities in a religion for what they are and doing so out of love still stands.

 

[Jay53]

Note you are not G-d, you are Yeshua (pbwh)

One quick note/question. By “Yeshua”, I think/thought you were/are referring to Jesus. If so, then your statement on it’s face is incorrect because Jesus is God and He is One.

 

[Vile_Servant]

In the context of understanding 9/11…

Luke 13
Repent or Perish
1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Those 2,605 who died when the twin towers in New York fell on them, were they more guilty than all the others living in the USA? No, we are all sinners, and we are all called to repentance.

6Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’

8" ‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’ "

Let us imitate the way of Jesus by forgiveness and giving Islam a chance to bear good fruit, through reaching out to Muslims (digging around the tree), and showing them charity as well as witnessing to them the true teaching of Jesus (fertilizing it).

Matthew 5:43-45 (New International Version)

Love for Enemies
43"You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you: Love your enemies** and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous
**

Hate the sin, but love the sinner. Terrorists do not represent the whole of Islam, but an extremist un-Islamic part of Islam. Love our Muslim friends, love even the “Muslim” terrorists who claim to act in the name of Islam, but speak out and stand firm against violent Islamic radicalism.

This is what it means to love God and our neighbor by the imitation of Christ.

 

[Jay53]

In the context of understanding 9/11…

Those 2,605 who died when the twin towers in New York fell on them, were they more guilty than all the others living in the USA? No, we are all sinners, and we are all called to repentance.

Let us imitate the way of Jesus by forgiveness and giving Islam a chance to bear good fruit, through reaching out to Muslims (digging around the tree), and showing them charity as well as witnessing to them the true teaching of Jesus (fertilizing it).

Hate the sin, but love the sinner. Terrorists do not represent the whole of Islam, but an extremist un-Islamic part of Islam. Love our Muslim friends, love even the “Muslim” terrorists who claim to act in the name of Islam, but speak out and stand firm against violent Islamic radicalism.

This is what it means to love God and our neighbor by the imitation of Christ.

Very well said.

 

[Steven_John]

…

I feel that Steven John has given some guideline to all here, mostly to the christians because he is a christian. Hopefully, The Muslims will repond positively.

AoA,
liked some of what you posted but think i have not communicated well, I have no guidance to offer.

B Blessed B guided

 

[Steven_John]

First of all, could you please try to be more charitable in your post to me? I was charitable to you so show me the same favor please. You may not think that I was being charitable to me but I actually tried as hard as I could to be charitable. I think I deserve the same favour.

Please accept my apology that your feelings are as, my intent was not to be uncharitable.
If i had inteded to be uncharitable i would have not cut a chunk of your post out.
I may not a real food communicator, the question was more posed for your reflection, not as seeking answer. The double bounce on the ? maybe did not help, in future i will try to give more care. Please be paitnet with me. Did not see your post as uncharitable in intention or you trying to be charitable, thought it a reflection of how you feel. In honesty i found it for me very uncharitable, it is loaded with your back ground thinking of reading things into what i wrote ie

I know that you probably believe that Islam is the true path. You don’t explicitly say that you are Muslim but I suspect that you are a Muslim or at least you have some strong Islamic tendencies

If that is you “trying to be charitable” i shudder to think what was really going through your head and where it comes from, if it was from what you had read of my post you could have quoted me.

I challenge Muslims offering they are praying and guided by an illa not Allah when they say Christians are bad because they are Christians when the Quran says there are good and bad Christians.

Now in light of the words of your post for a need of exposing truth who is the voice in your heart that spoke of the above quote?
The Father is truth.

Second, I am not entirely sure that what I said is inconsistent with your post at all.

To nurture a tree one has to feed it truth and remove dead / poisonous soil.

did not read your entire post and for that, I apologize.

No worries it is probably bad english any way.

I read through about half your post and received the impression that kindness included not exposing error for what it is

. Yes i should have explianed looking after a tree in more detail but had considered every one at CAF was very good at the truth part so needed no encouragement.

Regardless, my point about exposing the falsities in a religion for what they are and doing so out of love still stands.

Obviously I agree or i would have argued rather than say it was consistent with the post.

This is not the intended road of the thread.

Blessings to you all

 

[Steven_John]

One quick note/question. By “Yeshua”, I think/thought you were/are referring to Jesus. If so, then your statement on it’s face is incorrect because Jesus is God and He is One.

Yes i understand how you feel, but the parable as i have read it separates The Father (land owner) and Jesus (pbwh) the gardener.

The parable is offered as a narration of Jesus (pbwh) not my words.

If i am reading it wrong please help me in that, I am not good at reading and writing so can easy go wrong and it is not for me to speak against Jesus (pbwh).

I am a sinner so can easy get things wrong, could you please explain the parable?

The One you offer i agree with in the light of the parable would mean both seeking the same out come, the tree bearing good fruit.

Ps i will try to speak of him as Jesus (pbwh) but may fall again, please be patient.

Bless ya

 

[Steven_John]

In the context of understanding 9/11…
…
This is what it means to love God and our neighbor by the imitation of Christ.

Praise be to G-d

 

[planten]

AoA,
liked some of what you posted but think i have not communicated well, I have no guidance to offer.

B Blessed B guided

Steven John, I had agreed to your program of reading the gospel. I feel that your mission is quite good and I wish you success in your good work. I read and enjoy the BibleOT and bibleNT ( 4 Gospels).

 

[planten]

Planten,
U think that Christians are to be accused for the war that is happening in muslim’s world?
I can only see that the Taliban is the one that suppressed their fellow muslims, women have to be hidden in the backyard earning no pride, no identity, based on their understanding of no other than the Koran interpretation, and u’re accusing that we Christians are to be blamed for that?

No, I do not accuse christians for wars in Muslim countries. Taliban had their problem of misguidance. So they suffered due to bad leadership.

Muslims are killing each other the Sunni to the Shiite, to Ahmady and the other way round, and u’re accusing that Christians take advantage out of it?

Many people in islamic country are still left behind, lack of knowledge, lack of welfare, and u’re accusing it’s the Christian fault? They flew to the more advance country just to have a clash of civilization and then cry for their so called rights that is in direct opposition to the equality and just of the secular values?

I strictly believe that Muslims living in western countries should live there very peacefully and thankfully.

Man, please if u say that u’ve to see the log in your eyes first, than u’ve to do it too with your religion of Islam. Christian never fear to do evaluation of what is going wrong with the society, it’s just that muslims find it difficult to do the evaluation to themselves since they are not advised to do so

.
That (log business) I would say to the Muslims as well as christians, because it is the good advice from Jesus.

Even that we don’t find the word sword in koran, the reality is that most terror in the modern world now are done in the name of Islamic defense, which is taken from the interpretation of Koran. And you’re saying that the Christians are to be blamed for this terror, they deserve it?

I only meant to make it known that there is no sword in Quran. So Muslims should not take up any weapons. If any one is taking muslims on a ride with weapons, that is all wrong and anti-Islamic.

 

[seraphime2008]

No, I do not accuse christians for wars in Muslim countries. Taliban had their problem of misguidance. So they suffered due to bad leadership.

Well don’t u think that the misguidance was actually taken by using the same o Koran, not the other book? bad leadership will not rise if it doesn’t come from the root of the problem: Koran’s own interpretation. Same in everywhere in muslim countries, different “mazhab” or sects, all point finger other of bad interpretation which goes further to saying other as “kuffir”, then which goes on to even killing…bad…really bad!
Or perhaps it’s jealousy business if it comes to the West? If what Koran means by justice is to get equality for all people, why surpressed other people and try to make some business of “dhimmitude”, non muslim are lower in rank than the muslim? Equality comes with efforts using all the means u 're given, not by robbing other or screaming that you’ve got less than what the other has!

I strictly believe that Muslims living in western countries should live there very peacefully and thankfully.

Good! Please say that to muslim who wants to get some people murdered because they voice their opinion about Islam and it’s prophet! You want to have equal treatment, then handle the matter in same civilized conduct!
.

That (log business) I would say to the Muslims as well as christians, because it is the good advice from Jesus.

Actually all the teaching in NT by Christ is for all people, including the Muslim, and it all goes beyond the teaching of mere human! Admit it…

I only meant to make it known that there is no sword in Quran. So Muslims should not take up any weapons. If any one is taking muslims on a ride with weapons, that is all wrong and anti-Islamic.

See point above…

 

[Steven_John]

I would like to share with you my prayer inspiration of why i started the thread.
I had jumped in on a couple of other threads that is saw as Anti-Muslim that is from reading i saw the intent as to prove which religion is right.
I was not very welcomed in most at first people made all kinds of assumptions about me, not from my posts i think but because i was not slaying Islam.

I prayed for guidance and asked Him why does people see no good at all in other people. or so it looks from the posts.

He inspired in me why keep trying to fix, is that not what you dont like them doing? Yes but some Christians are doing as they see the Muslims of doing i pushed on Him. And what are you doing He inspired, your work. I showed you and you know, you dont need to prove you, you will be as you will be. You dont need to prove me I know who I am.

I reflected and learned, it seems people fight fire with fire and it blazes while i see myself as having fire of love i was still adding more to fire and making blaze.

Some people could not stand that i would dare speak of any good in what they were fixing.

He told me to show more of myself and I did, reluctantly but He was right some love came back as it seemed people really needed some assurance of my life story to stop reading into my posts. Of course only the parts they wanted to hear. Accept for obeying Him why do i need to account of me to you when i was offering of Him and His to you, I am not your guide nore your messenger, I am a sinner without the ordinations you respect. People did not quote me but jumped all over me of what i did not post, near no criticism of my posts, near no Amens.

I am sure i do it to you guys also. Even in this thread Sister Holly read into me of not what i posted even without reading the whole post. She is a humble lady and apologised, my writing this is not to make example of her but of what we do.

Any how back to the point of my post, fire on fire was blazing hate.
He inspired in me the world is supposed to work by love on love blazing love. I told Him doubt it will work, people are keen to show fault and wont look for you in their enemy’s. My word has power for they who believe it and are humble enough to put aside pride and hear it, live it , action it.

Hmm i took your professions of faith, looked at your source of authority, The Word and instruction of the Catholic Church and built that opening post to start spreading love to build a kingdom.

What has come of it, a little back reading the thread so far who says of the good of others? they are the builders

Of course many have passed by (viewed it and moved on) some may think no fight there and others would have other reasons.

Of the few that have jumped in we see some building, eg people commenting good on other posters etc.
Is this not fertilising the tree of goodness?
Yes we are still hacking some branches and chopping some roots but i see it as much more loving than in some of the other threads.

Maybe we as individuals each being a tree in our own way are a little healthier that b4 we posted and are on our way to produce more fruit for His glory rather than our own edification.

I thank and praise G-d for the encouragement given toward me of this thread, I pray G-d bless and strengthens you in His love.
Remember I am not good He is, if you see good it is Him you see, If you encourage good in me, you encourage me to submit more to Him, for His glory and our blessing.

Praise be to G-d for His goodness you see and proclaim in each other.

“I will be what I will be”, you have free will so choose who you see

PS it is unlikely to see as many posters as the “i will fix you threads” but do not be disheartened and stay faithful “many are called but few are chosen”

 

[Jay53]

Yes i understand how you feel, but the parable as i have read it separates The Father (land owner) and Jesus (pbwh) the gardener.

The parable is offered as a narration of Jesus (pbwh) not my words.

If i am reading it wrong please help me in that, I am not good at reading and writing so can easy go wrong and it is not for me to speak against Jesus (pbwh).

I am a sinner so can easy get things wrong, could you please explain the parable?

The One you offer i agree with in the light of the parable would mean both seeking the same out come, the tree bearing good fruit.

Ps i will try to speak of him as Jesus (pbwh) but may fall again, please be patient.

Bless ya

My own thoughts on the parable are that God is the landowner, each of us is the fig tree and Jesus is the gardener. I think it is speaking about the need for repentence and if we do not repent nor “bear good fruit” we will “be cut down” and go to hell. Just my own thoughts.

After re-reading your OP, you have made some very good points and your interpretation is certainly not wrong. Everyone is called to love their enemies. Our job is to teach them the Gospel through our actions as well as our words. But that also doesn’t mean that we have to tolerate sinfulness and part of loving someone is correcting them when they are wrong.

I spoke about Jesus being God only because you separated Him from God and put a “pbwh” after His name, an indication that you do not understand that He IS God. God does not need us to wish peace on Him - He is the one who gives us peace.

 

[schaick]

When I first started talking to Muslims about Islam years ago, I began with the thought that Mohammad was a good man -the first half of the Quran is nice-some confusion but nothing horrible. I believed that after Mohammad 's followers grew in numbers something happened, he became evil, prideful, violent.

I thought well **we know that Uthmann burned many Qurans, **He must have burned the part that was to follow the first part of the Quran.

There are nice Muslims of course but I started noticing a mindless following-as if they have been brainwashed. I have seen videos of young boys chanting and swaying as if in a trance while they read the Quran. Muslims saying we had blind faith no proof when in fact all they have is Mohammad’s word for any type of proof.

Then about a year ago it hit me- there is only one being on the face of the earth that would want us to believe that GOD faked Jesus’ crucifixion.

Who would want to confuse people about the TRUTH of who Jesus is?

There is only one beng that would want us to return to 600AD.

The devil/satan

I hate no Muslims.

I hate the devil and Islam.

 

[spn82756]

Most of the time, the Catholics accuse Islam of using the sword, even though the word "Sword= Saif " is not found in the Quran at all. See the whole Quran. You will not find the word “Sword.” But Sword is found at few places in the bible:

1. Jesus advised every one to buy swords even by selling clothes.
2. Jesus said “Who ever uses the sword will be killed by the sword.”
3. They said, “master, we have two swords.” Jesus said. “That is enough”
4. One disciple took out the sword and cut the ear of a soldier. Jesus told his follower to put back the sword.

To clear your understanding of Jesus’ meaning regarding the sword…

Did Jesus instruct his followers to buy a sword?

Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors’ ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)
This is the one New Testament passage which may be taken to advocate the use of a sword (or any other weapon) in self-defence. But while Jesus does indeed tell us followers to buy a sword, several features must be noted:

1. 
   ]While in general it is a good principle to look at a Bible passage on its own before comparing it to the rest of the Bible, in this case the narrative continues later that night: when on of the disciples used a sword, Jesus rebuked him for doing so.
   A rebuke is recorded in three of the four gospels: Matthew 26:52 (’“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.’), Luke 22:51 (‘But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.’), and John 18:11 (‘Jesus commanded Peter, “Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?”’). Mark does not record a rebuke, but does note that while one disciple used a sword, Jesus allowed himself to be arrested peacefully (implying that he disagreed with the use of force).
   Some commentators cite John 18:11 to suggest that Jesus was only opposed to the use of weapons on this particular occasion, because it was God’s purpose for Jesus to be arrested. But the rebuke recorded in Matthew is far more wide-ranging (‘for all who draw the sword will die by the sword’*), and appears to condemn, or at least very strongly discourage, all use of weapons.
   ]The group comprised Jesus and the eleven remaining apostles, and possibly some others. Two swords were not enough to defend such a group. Why then did Jesus say ‘That is enough’?
   ]Jesus ties the use of the sword to the Scripture being fulfilled (‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’). So does the use of the sword only refer to this present occasion, when Jesus was to be arrested like a criminal (transgressor)?
   *]On the other hand, there was not time for them to sell their cloak and buy a sword, suggesting Jesus was looking towards the future.
   *]If Jesus was telling them to have a sword handy (for self-defense) as they went into the world preaching the gospel, why then do Acts and the epistles consistently show the disciples accepting persecution peacefully? (Darrel Bock’s commentary gives the following examples: Acts 4:25-31, 8:1-3, 9:1-2, 12:1-5).
   
   Generally, commentators have taken one of two different approaches to this verse:
   1. 
      ]The first approach is to see Jesus’ words as a symbolic or metaphorical. He was not really telling them to buy or use swords. He was simply using the metaphor of a sword to describe the current crisis. When the disciples took his words literally (‘See, Lord, here are two swords’), Jesus simply drops the subject by saying ‘That is enough’.
      This approach works well except for one thing: why did Jesus need to use such a metaphor at all, given the confusion that arose from it? (Beginning later that night with the disciples, but continuing to the present day!)
      ]The second approach is to see it as a reverse of the rules for mission given in Matthew 10:5-14, Mark 6:7-13 and Luke 10:1-12. (And which Jesus refers back to in Luke 22:35, above). Under those instructions, the disciples went out on mission essentially with no provisions, and trusted God for all their needs. But Jesus is now reversing those rules: they are to provide for themselves, and that includes self-defence.
      The problem with this approach is its apparent contradiction with Jesus pacifist statements elsewhere, including Matthew 26:52 (‘for all who draw the sword will die by the sword’) later that night. Perhaps that latter statement can be taken to apply to that time only (so have a meaning like, ‘if any of you disciples draw a sword, you will get yourself killed’). In any case, if this interpretation is favoured, Jesus’ pacifist statements must also be taken into account, and so violent self-defense becomes appropriate only in the most desparate of situations.
      ]Between these two extremes is the suggestion that swords were appropriate for this time only - that is, time of Jesus’ arrest.
      While this has the positive that Jesus ties the crisis to prophecies concerning his arrest (‘It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’ ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me.’*), there are still two problems. Why does he advocate swords at this time only, and then tell his disciples not to use them? And why does he tell his disciples to sell their cloak and buy a sword, when there is no time to do that? Therefore I would suggest that this solution does not work.
      *]Finally, there is the suggestion that Luke 22:35-38 is a tradition in favour of self-defence, and is in direct contradiction to the passages which condemn the use of violence.
      I am sure many will be attracted to this view. I do not think it is necessary. The problem (in my mind) is not contradiction, but that we do not have sufficient information to decide whether given passages are metaphorical or literal, timeless or specific. Christians who take this view still have the problem of deciding between the competing claims of Luke 22:35-38, and pacifist passages such as Matthew 26:52 and Matthew:38-48.
      
      I think we can definitely rule out option (3), and I see no benefit in option (4). That leaves options (1) (the sword is metaphorical) and (2) (self-defence is OK). My personal opinion is that metaphorical interpretation is harder to justify and so this passage provides a limited justifcation for fighting in self-defense.
      If that is so, and God does allow the use of violence in self-defence, we must note the following caveats:
      1. 
         *]Violent self-defence (i.e. the use of weapons in self-defense) can only be used as a last resort. There is no record of Jesus or the apostles ever resorting to it, despite extreme persecution.
         *]If we are fighting attackers off, we must still continue to love them. To me, that means taking all possible means to minimise harm to all parties - as if the attacker was a member of our own family.
         *]Violence must never be against a ruling authority, however much we dislike or disagree with it, because in such a situation peaceful resistance is always possible. It can only be used in the chaos of a simple violent attack on ourselves.
         In light of Romans 13 (Click here for a fuller discussion of Romans 13), which says that all authorities (even the enemy) are ordained by God, we may add two further principles if we allow war in self defence:
         *]If the defence is won, there is no justification for then proceeding to attack the other country, because their government was instituted by God also.
         *]If the defence is lost, then the new government must be accepted. While it may be opposed peacefully, there is no justification for a continued guerilla war against it. This goes against both Romans 13 (the accepting of governing authorities) and the principle of loving our enemy.
         
         So yes, Luke 22:35-38 may provide some justification for fighting in self-defence. But, in light of other teaching of Jesus, it can only be used in strict self-defence, and must not be divorced from his command to love our enemies.