Catholics for Muslims

[qwerk]

I need to add that even though the Pope has reached out with attempts at trying to talk, last year there was another - ANOTHER - Jihad declared against Rome. (this week there was a renewal of a Jihad against India and none of these Jihads is that peaceful kind either, they are following Sharia laws to the tee, 'to war against non-Muslims)

Keep in mind when reading and/or watching this that the Pope has done nothing but reach out to Muslims. And Hamas is funded by the Saudis (Wahabbis) who the Pope, I assume, has talked to.

Until we start making the attempt to understand the ‘Islamic mind’ we will be our own worse enemies, and leave our children, and us, victims to something that I find foul.

Muslim Scholar: Jihad - Muslims Will Conquer Rome - Islam Will Rule the World
Hamas MP and Cleric Yunis Al-Astal in a Friday Sermon: We Will Conquer Rome, and from There Continue to Conquer the Two Americas and Eastern Europe

Following are excerpts from an address by Hamas MP and cleric Yunis Al-Astal, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on April 11, 2008.

Yunis Al-Astal: Allah has chosen you for Himself and for His religion, so that you will serve as the engine pulling this nation to the phase of succession, security, and consolidation of power, and even to conquests thorough da’wa and military conquests of the capitals of the entire world. Very soon, Allah willing, Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople was, as was prophesized by our Prophet Muhammad. Today, Rome is the capital of the Catholics, or the Crusader capital, which has declared its hostility to Islam, and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs in Palestine in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam – this capital of theirs will be an advanced post for the Islamic conquests, which will spread through Europe in its entirety, and then will turn to the two Americas, and even Eastern Europe.

I believe that our children or our grandchildren will inherit our Jihad and our sacrifices, and Allah willing, the commanders of the conquest will come from among them. Today, we instill these good tidings in their souls, and by means of the mosques and the Koran books, and the history of our Prophets, his companions, and the great leaders, we prepare them for the mission of saving humanity from the hellfire on the brink of which they stand.

Rome allows mosques, and Saudi Arabia has still decreed no Churches in Mecca. Why? Is that tolerance or concession? It hasn’t even stopped funding the violent JIhadists or stopped stocking the mosques they fund with hate literature!

 

[Lapell]

Sorry, the preceeding post of mine was on a now older post which I happen to have read before. Hence my replying to it so late… But it seems that Muhammad and Islam as a whole have been judged on the accounts from the times of the Ottoman Empire, and from the news that perspired here and there in the past century, not to leave aside the news from around the world. Were Muhammad’s first disciples mainly bloodthirsty to have embraced Islam with such enthusiasm.They at least were not forced…

 

[Lapell]

I mean, don’t get me wrong, it is true that in history, Islam also has spread with swords, not just from the enthusiasm of some converts. It’s as though there may be at least 2 kinds of Islam. One that would draw eager converts, and one that makes sad news, that is imposed on the people… even though nowadays in such cases it seems to be quite a mix of Islam and active anti-religious atheism… Like Saddam Hussein’s and to a worse extent Bin Laden’s.

 

[qwerk]

I mean, don’t get me wrong, it is true that in history, Islam also has spread with swords, not just from the enthusiasm of some converts. It’s as though there may be at least 2 kinds of Islam. One that would draw eager converts, and one that makes sad news, that is imposed on the people… even though nowadays in such cases it seems to be quite a mix of Islam and active anti-religious atheism… Like Saddam Hussein’s and to a worse extent Bin Laden’s.

‘One that draws eager converts’ under false pretenses. They do not tell them about abrogation (the violence supercedes the peaceful stuff), they do not tell them the truth about their Quran or history and that gets worse as time goes on. More and more countries are intimidated by the demands that we change history to what they say it should be and also lawsuits are slapped on people who do warn us.

You think that this is ok because to tell the truth about Islam is hateful - well, no it isn’t. All of the stuff is in their texts - nowhere else. And what is hateful, quoting their Quran, Hadith and Sharia laws, or them organizing such things as Israel Apartheid Week (two weeks of pure hate), not based on the true facts of the Israeli/Gaza situation, and only has a base to push the propaganda of the area? This is only one example of the hate, we have had a few months of an email campaign to shake the UC officials up to the fact that this is uncalled for hatred. That is not free speech.

I think that there are too many people too willing to think that it is all ‘peace, love, dove’ in the world of Islam when it is only based on untruths. Anything that might resemble that is only Muslim to Muslim. But even at that - more Muslims kill Muslims than any other group.

 

[Lapell]

Were Muhammad’s first disciples mainly bloodthirsty to have embraced Islam with such enthusiasm? They at least were not forced…

Muhammad couldn’t have forced his very first disciples since all they would have had to do was to go to those of his clan who had rejected him, and Muhammad couldn’t have faced them and vanquished them all by himself. There actually were people who truly believed him to be a prophet preaching the word of God, and Omar, who at first had meant to go and kill Muhammad, wasn’t the first one. There were women before him who accepted Islam. Islam must have been a great improvement from the idol-worshipping that had prevailed in Mecca before…

 

[qwerk]

Muhammad couldn’t have forced his very first disciples since all they would have had to do was to go to those of his clan who had rejected him, and Muhammad couldn’t have faced them and vanquished them all by himself. There actually were people who truly believed him to be a prophet preaching the word of God, and Omar, who at first had meant to go and kill Muhammad, wasn’t the first one. There were women before him who accepted Islam. Islam must have been a great improvement from the idol-worshipping that had prevailed in Mecca before…

Yes, there are always men willing to carry out this type of thing. I think that Hitler, Mao Stalin and a whole host of others had those types too.

I think that I am discussing with someone who is not very well versed in Islam’s early history. What have you read regarding Islam?

I also said that during the first 10-13 yrs he had only gained about 100-150 followers. This was during the peaceful preachings of Islam, it was only after when he gained power did it become violent and he amassed followers through that violence. Of those first 100-150, who became his soldiers to wage violence against others? I do not know. But Muhammad had to continually sweeten up his heaven to entice these guys.

 

[Lapell]

Yes, there are always men willing to carry out this type of thing. I think that Hitler, Mao Stalin and a whole host of others had those types too.

I think that I am discussing with someone who is not very well versed in Islam’s early history. What have you read regarding Islam?

I also said that during the first 10-13 yrs he had only gained about 100-150 followers. This was during the peaceful preachings of Islam, it was only after when he gained power did it become violent and he amassed followers through that violence. Of those first 100-150, who became his soldiers to wage violence against others? I do not know. But Muhammad had to continually sweeten up his heaven to entice these guys.

Wasn’t the opposition then many and pretty nasty against the first Muslims?
BTW, I never said those people were reacting exactly the same way as the Apostles and the disciples in the Church of the first century… they too experienced much violence from the opposition, but they didn’t retaliate as far as I know. But Moses’ followers would have, at some point. And the first Muslims seem to model themselves after the Israelites of Moses’ days (to a certain extent) more than the Christians whose conduct they seemed unable to understand and fathom as reasonable…

 

[Lapell]

I will leave now, since I must prepare myself to celebrate the Paschal Triduum. It’s nearly 5 p.m. (Atlantic Time). So, to my Catholic companions here, have great, fruitful celebrations of Jesus’ Passion and Resurrection. Happy Paschal Time! Joyeuses P^aques!

 

[qwerk]

Wasn’t the opposition then many and pretty nasty against the first Muslims?
BTW, I never said those people were reacting exactly the same way as the Apostles and the disciples in the Church of the first century… they too experienced much violence from the opposition, but they didn’t retaliate as far as I know. But Moses’ followers would have, at some point. And the first Muslims seem to model themselves after the Israelites of Moses’ days (to a certain extent) more than the Christians whose conduct they seemed unable to understand and fathom as reasonable…

Can you tell me when the Jews under Moses raided caravans just to grab their goods, and women and children? Or when they broke cease fire treaties? Or when they lied to trick non-Jews? Or when they attacked poorly armed cities known for trade? Or tore apart women just because she spoke against Moses? Or any of those types of things.

As for the very early followers of Muhammad being persecuted, I don’t put too much stock into that either. In Muhammedan’s eyes just being rejected is persecution in their eyes. Or just being like the poets that spoke against them was being persecuted.

The next few excerpts show that Muhammad might have been the man with the bad behavior:

Ishaq:119, Tabari VI:93, 95-96

**Ishaq:119 “'Abu Tabib, your nephew Muhammad has cursed our gods [at this point he had cursed all of them, including Allah], insulted our religion [more correctly, insulted them by trying to steal their religion], mocked our way of life and accused our forefathers of error. Either you stop him or let us get to him. For you, like us, are in opposition to him. He gave them a conciliatory reply. They returned a second time and said, ‘We have asked you to put a stop to your nephew’s activities but you have not done so. By Allah, we cannot endure having our fathers reviled and our customs mocked.’ Muhammad thought that his uncle had the idea of abandoning and betraying him, and that he was going to lose his support. The Apostle broke into tears.”

Tabari VI:93 “The Quraysh went to Abu Talib and said, ‘Your nephew [Muhammad] has reviled our gods, denounced our religion, derided our traditional values, and told us that our forefathers were misguided [and burning in hell]. Either curb his attacks on us or give us a free hand to deal with him, for you are as opposed to him as we are.’ They said, ‘We asked you to forbid your nephew from attacking us, but you did nothing. By Allah, we can no longer endure this vilification of our forefathers, this derision of our traditional values, and this abuse of our gods.’ This breach and enmity with his tribe weighed heavily on Talib. ‘Abu Talib, you are our elder and our chief, so give us justice against your nephew and order him to desist from reviling our gods, and we will leave him to his god.’”

Tabari VI:95 “Abu Talib sent for Muhammad. ‘Nephew, here are the shaykhs and nobles of your tribe. They have asked for justice against you. You should desist from reviling their gods and they will leave you to your god.’”

Tabari VI:96 “Abu Talib said to Muhammad, ‘Nephew, how is it that your tribe is complaining of you and claiming that you are reviling their gods and saying this, that, and the other?’ The Messenger said, 'I want them to utter one saying. If they say it, the Arabs will submit to them and the non-Arabs will pay the jizyah [submission tax] to them.”**

 

[Steven_John]

I will leave now, since I must prepare myself to celebrate the Paschal Triduum. It’s nearly 5 p.m. (Atlantic Time). So, to my Catholic companions here, have great, fruitful celebrations of Jesus’ Passion and Resurrection. Happy Paschal Time! Joyeuses P^aques!

And to you also, may you and yours be blessed, I appreciate your living witness to Jesus (pbwh) in this thread.

 

[Lapell]

The next few excerpts show that Muhammad might have been the man with the bad behavior:

Why the additions in brackets? If the quote would tell it by itself, there’s no need to add those things in brackets (except for Muhammad’s name to tell us that it’s him that’s meant by “he”)

 

[Lapell]

Sorry the quote qwerk was using didn’t appear. See his (or is it her?) last post to read it.

 

[morning_star777]

h

I hate no Muslims.

I hate the devil and Islam.

well said.

 

[Moro_Rock]

And to you also, may you and yours be blessed, I appreciate your living witness to Jesus (pbwh) in this thread.

Being a follower of Jesus is not the easy option. Jesus said " Love your enemies that you may be children of your Father in heaven who makes the sun to shine and the rain to fall on the just and on the unjust "