Catholics for Ron Paul Coalition

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I just want to peer in to peoples minds and figure out why from a conservative view point they find Bachmann a better candidate. By all I’ve seen it doesn’t seem to add up.
Didn’t see this question at first. Bachmann has more favor partly because she’s more visible - she’s gone to lengths to promote herself. Ron Paul is also kind of seen as a loon - his economic and fiscal policy, while conservative by nature, is a radical departure from the current economic structure. Bachmann is speaking to more common conservative concerns, mainly on social issues, and she wouldn’t push a gold standard.
 
IMHO, they are both minor candidates on the national scene. They will be sidelined by the end of the year. Bachmann because of lack of experience, and Paul because his positions don’t match those of the Republican Party.
 
The man has a cross-over appeal that few Republicans and no fiscal conservatives has ever enjoyed. I have no doubt that he has the best chance of winning this election. I have never heard Jon Stewart speak so well of a Republican and I have never heard his audience applaud like they did for Ron Paul. The Republicans are treating Dr. Paul in the same manner that they accuse the mainstream media of doing. I would at least think that those who claim to adhere to the Golden Rule would treat him in accordance to that principle.

The link (I will not link it here) is at The Daily Show - Indecision 2012, August 15.
 
And I will respond I voted for Ron Paul, the most pro-life, pro-constitution candidate in 2012 and the only one with the voting record to prove it.
That is why I am voting for the man. He has more integrity than any politician I know. He is consistent and does not tailer each speech to the crowd.
 
I’ll be voting for Ron Paul in the primaries, and may write him in for the general election if he doesn’t get the republican nomination. I am considering Perry as an alternative, but want to know his views on foreign policies first, and of course ‘tidbits’ of news have already started coming out that could cause second thoughts.
If you like Paul’s foreign policy I think you will hate Perry’s. My understanding is that Perry is in the “bomb them all and let God sort them out” camp.
 
If you like Paul’s foreign policy I think you will hate Perry’s. My understanding is that Perry is in the “bomb them all and let God sort them out” camp.
And you base that on what?

Heres allI could find :
  • Iraq: combat terror on their turf, not ours. (Nov 2010)
  • Divest state funds from companies doing business in Sudan. (Feb 2007)
  • Secure freedom for oppressed people in Iraq and Afghanistan. (May 2008)
  • US should be strongest nation by insurmountable magnitude. (Nov 2010)
  • Invest in defense to prepare for unpredictable threats. (Nov 2010)
  • Unsettled policy on Guantanamo signals weakness to enemies. (Nov 2010)
  • Always maintain a robust military capability. (May 2008)
  • Deal with terrorism as a joint federal-state responsibility. (Feb 2001)
  • Include states in anti-terrorism planning. (Sep 2001)
  • Study terrorist threats against nuclear waste repositories. (Aug 2001)
 
He will ask you why when you had a chance to stop the slaughter of 1.2 million children year you preferred to sit on the sidelines and pout.
Ya…I don’t think so. My confessor has already dispelled this myth.
 
Well they aren’t the two main choices, but if we are creating an artificial limit for arguments sake I find Ron Pauls foreign policy ideas to be downright scary for one thing.
 
And you base that on what?

Heres allI could find :
  • Iraq: combat terror on their turf, not ours. (Nov 2010)
  • Divest state funds from companies doing business in Sudan. (Feb 2007)
  • Secure freedom for oppressed people in Iraq and Afghanistan. (May 2008)
  • US should be strongest nation by insurmountable magnitude. (Nov 2010)
  • Invest in defense to prepare for unpredictable threats. (Nov 2010)
  • Unsettled policy on Guantanamo signals weakness to enemies. (Nov 2010)
  • Always maintain a robust military capability. (May 2008)
  • Deal with terrorism as a joint federal-state responsibility. (Feb 2001)
  • Include states in anti-terrorism planning. (Sep 2001)
  • Study terrorist threats against nuclear waste repositories. (Aug 2001)
And, most of these are jingoist points that confirm that the man leans to a “bomb them all” position. 😦
 
I wish people who talk all the time about electability would just stop and reflect on how un-American and defeatist that kind of talk is.
Was the American Revolution electable? I think not.
“Electability” is another word for media elite thought control: candidate X is an unelectable nobody, because the MSM choose to ignore him.
“Electability” means “I can’t be bothered to do what I can to persuade and encourage others to do the right thing, because that’s the job of the boob tube and the leadership of the two parties. So what if they’ve made a total mess of the country so far. We must bow to them.”
“Electability” is something party hacks and Europeans worry about, not free men and women.
:manvspc:
 
That is why I am voting for the man. He has more integrity than any politician I know. He is consistent and does not tailer each speech to the crowd.
In addition, I think he may truly be the only pol who understands banking and money. He also predicted our current economic crisis many years ago.
 
Wrong. If Catholics voted like Catholics we would have candidates (regardless of Party) that reflected Catholic principles. The lesser of two evils is ALWAYS an evil, regardless of how “lessened” it is. And if the Catholic bishops acted like Catholic bishops, there would be far more excommunicated “Catholic” politicians. I would never vote for the lesser of two evils. I would write-in the most Catholic candidate if it came to that.
You may note that I put “lesser of two evils” in quotation marks. Frankly, I do not consider the Republican candidates of which I know to be the “purveyors of evil” at all. One may be so fervent about his policy ideas that he thinks all others are promoters of “evil”, but there is really nothing inherently evil about the policy positions of any candidates I see except:
-Obama on abortion.
-Obama on homosexual marriage.
-Obama on killing viable babies even after botched abortions.
-Obama on killing viable babies in “partial birth abortion.”
-Obama on what appears (granted, we have not seen the full flower of his intent yet) to be socialism, which has been condemned by the Popes.

-Romney on abortion if his change of heart is phony.
-Paul on homosexual marriage.

If you refuse to oppose the evils of abortion and homosexual “marriage” by wasting your vote out of a sense of vanity in being “100% right”, then you are a tacit promoter of them, and as complicit with the evildoers as a person who sees an assault in progress and doesn’t even bother to call the police, particularly if your objections to those who do not clearly promote evil are “policy” positions upon which prudential judgment may legitimately be exercised.
 
It is the inability of Ron Paul supporters to see that people can actually disagree with his positions without having been misled, that make it so hard to have a rational discussion with them I’ve pretty much decided I’m going to ignore any post that has the term “neocon” in it.
What is neoconservatism, anyway? The godfather of the movement, Irving Kristol, wrote in 1996 that, “with the end of the Cold War, what we really need is an obvious ideological and threatening enemy, one worthy of our mettle, one that can unite us in opposition.” “This was a movement founded on foreign policy,” says Max Boot. Intervention, wars for democracy, and a passionate attachment to Israel are what neoconservatism is all about. Foremost among the traditional ideas true conservatives must discard are those in the Farewell Adress, Washingtons’s admonition that we stay out of foreign wars and avoid “permanent alliances” and “passionate attachments” to nations not our own.
 
Ya…I don’t think so. My confessor has already dispelled this myth.
I guess some confessors or other told the Kennedys that it was okay to promote abortion, too. Probably Pelosi found one of those as well. And Biden.
 
And one can somehow be “principled” in voting for abortion or in failing to oppose it. Nonsense.
Not nonsense.

Yes. For their own reasons, “pro-choicers” can be following principle, even if wrong.
.
Catholics may vote for any candidate opposed to abortion, even one like Ron Paul, who might not get the nomination. No Catholic need owe allegiance to the GOP. Principle counts to an honorable person.
 
And you base that on what?

Heres allI could find :
  • Iraq: combat terror on their turf, not ours. (Nov 2010)
  • Divest state funds from companies doing business in Sudan. (Feb 2007)
  • Secure freedom for oppressed people in Iraq and Afghanistan. (May 2008)
  • US should be strongest nation by insurmountable magnitude. (Nov 2010)
  • Invest in defense to prepare for unpredictable threats. (Nov 2010)
  • Unsettled policy on Guantanamo signals weakness to enemies. (Nov 2010)
  • Always maintain a robust military capability. (May 2008)
  • Deal with terrorism as a joint federal-state responsibility. (Feb 2001)
  • Include states in anti-terrorism planning. (Sep 2001)
  • Study terrorist threats against nuclear waste repositories. (Aug 2001)
That’s a whole lot of terrorism there. Not that the threat isn’t real, but in our history recall, let’s remember that fear is the perfect opportunity for the state to impose further restrictions on individual freedom.
 
You may note that I put “lesser of two evils” in quotation marks. Frankly, I do not consider the Republican candidates of which I know to be the “purveyors of evil” at all. One may be so fervent about his policy ideas that he thinks all others are promoters of “evil”, but there is really nothing inherently evil about the policy positions of any candidates I see except:
-Obama on abortion.
-Obama on homosexual marriage.
-Obama on killing viable babies even after botched abortions.
-Obama on killing viable babies in “partial birth abortion.”
-Obama on what appears (granted, we have not seen the full flower of his intent yet) to be socialism, which has been condemned by the Popes.

-Romney on abortion if his change of heart is phony.
-Paul on homosexual marriage.

If you refuse to oppose the evils of abortion and homosexual “marriage” by wasting your vote out of a sense of vanity in being “100% right”, then you are a tacit promoter of them, and as complicit with the evildoers as a person who sees an assault in progress and doesn’t even bother to call the police, particularly if your objections to those who do not clearly promote evil are “policy” positions upon which prudential judgment may legitimately be exercised.
“Pro-life” encompasses much more than abortion and euthanasia. It also includes a candidate’s foreign policy as well as their understanding of just what makes a sound economy, as well as their undertanding of and respect for and willingness to defend the Constitution. Ron Paul is the only candidate that has a voting record (rhetoric is meaningless) worthy of Catholic support. And you are 100% wrong to think that by NOT supporting the lesser of two evils or the lesser of two candidates WHEN there is a third way, that that in some way that makes me a “tacit promoter” of abortion and homosexual marriage or “complicit” with evil. What offensive logic. There can be no compromise with evil.
 
Not nonsense.

Yes. For their own reasons, “pro-choicers” can be following principle, even if wrong.
.
Catholics may vote for any candidate opposed to abortion, even one like Ron Paul, who might not get the nomination. No Catholic need owe allegiance to the GOP. Principle counts to an honorable person.
As a devoted Democrat, Rich, you would have an interest in people who oppose Obama throwing their votes away in the general election. I get that.

But you’re right in a way. Mao Tse-Tung was “principled” in his own way. So was Pol Pot. But that does not mean that simply having “principles” means that it’s objectively moral to act in accordance with them no matter what they are. You know that.

I have no problem with prolife voters backing Ron Paul in the primary, notwithstanding that I do not favor Ron Paul myself. What I do have a problem with is Catholics failing to vote against an abortion-favoring candidate like Obama when there is even a reasonably likely prolife candidate for whom they could vote in the general if Paul doesn’t get the nomination, just because their primary candidate didn’t win.

Those prolifers who throw their votes away just because their candidate doesn’t win in the primaries are just as complicit with the pro-abortion agenda as if they had voted for Obama themselves. And in some ways it’s worse because they know better, or at least have enough knowledge to know better. Some pro-abortion diehards don’t.

It’s vanity, pure and simple, that motivates such a thing.
 
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