Catholics for Ron Paul Coalition

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In practical application, no. Not really. I mean, yes, they are “constitutionalists”, but the Senate Democrats will never let another one on. Look what they did to Alito. And the Republicans just let Sotomeyor and Kagan through with barely a fight. So, I say again, what’s the difference?
I can understand your frustration. Perhaps a GOP president would have an easier time getting constitutionalists on the bench we had a GOP senate. As for the Republicans not fighting Sotomeyor and Kagan, I think the Democrats had a filibuster proof majority didn’t they? What could the GOP have done to prevent their approval?

Ishii
 
Then you agree with Blackmun’s majority opinion in Roe v Wade. As does Scalia…the supposed prolife hero. And this is the most crucial part of the decision…the part that opened the door to the slaughter…hardly fair to unborn persons.
No, that is not the crucial part of the decision, not even close. No serious constitutional scholar or judge thinks that the 14th Amendment was meant to protect the unborn. The argument raised by the state of Texas in Roe v. Wade was part of a strategy that is often used in court, namely to raise every possible defense to a legal action. The argument that an unborn child is a “person” within the meaning of the 14th Amendment was a weak argument that was nonetheless raised in the hopes of appealing to one or two of the Justices.

The most crucial part of the opinion, and the part that has serious constitutional difficulties, is where the Court finds a right to privacy in the 14th Amendment, so that no State can pass laws that completely prohibit abortions. This “Substantive Due Process” is the most crucial part because many of the more laughably incoherent decisions by the Court in the past half century have been based on this theory, and it is the theory upon which the Court bases its holding in Roe. Blackmun was very wrong when he used this theory to justify his holding, but he was absolutely correct when he said that the unborn were not persons within the meaning of the 14th Amendment.

The best argument against Blackmun’s reasoning is that Substantive Due Process, that is, the “finding” of rights such as the right to an abortion in the Constitution, when it is not actually written there, betrays the original meaning of the Constitution and is thus creative projection of one’s own personal views onto the text of the Constitution.
The best defense of the 14th Amendment against what you are saying is the text itself…no exceptions are listed to “any person”.
I understand that argument, but it is flawed. At the time that the 14th Amendment was adopted, it was not believed that the fetus was necessarily a person. There was actually a substantial tradition in the common law that made a distinction between a fetus that was not yet “alive” and one that was and thus was able to gain more rights:

“It is undisputed that, at common law, abortion performed before “quickening” – the first recognizable movement of the fetus in utero, appearing usually from the 16th to the 18th week of pregnancy – was not an indictable offense. The absence of a common law crime for pre-quickening abortion appears to have developed from a confluence of earlier philosophical, theological, and civil and canon law concepts of when life begins. These disciplines variously approached the question in terms of the point at which the embryo or fetus became “formed” or recognizably human, or in terms of when a “person” came into being, that is, infused with a “soul” or “animated.” A loose consensus evolved in early English law that these events occurred at some point between conception and live birth.”
Unprovable assertion. The unborn were long protected by most states until those laws were challenged by Roe. The lack of Constitutional challenge to state abortion laws (until Roe) is stronger evidence of the opposite. And as I’ve said, Texas, in Roe, claimed their statute was required by the 14th Amendment.
Actually it was not until 1821 that Connecticut passed the first law that made abortion of a “live” child a crime. It was not until 1860 that Connecticut made abortion of a child that was “not alive” (that is, before the 16th week) a crime. Before 1821, States relied on the common law under which abortion before the 16th-18th week was not even a crime. It really was not until after the Civil War that legislation began to replace the common law in most states, so that by the 1950s you have laws in most states that banned abortions.
Did anyone raise chickens and eggs back then? Jefferson said in the Declaration that all men are created equal. He didn’t say born equal. But it was clear scientifically when Roe was decided. And they pretended it wasn’t.
It does not matter whether or not it was clear scientifically at the time of Roe v. Wade when personhood actually begings. What does matter is what was believed when the 14th Amendment was adopted. When the people invested with the political authority to change the Constitution wrote the 14th Amendment, they did not mean “persons” to include the unborn. I wish it were different. However, such is not the case, and a correct reading of the Constitution will recognize that fact.
 
Just wondered how you reconcile the “50 years ago” part of your response, to the “ever since” part of the poster’s remarks?
Good catch. I should have said that Republicans of today are different than Republicans before Reagan (namely, Presidents Ford and Nixon could be classified as pro-choice). If you look at the justices that have been appointed since Reagan:

102 Sandra O’Connor (Reagan)
103 Antonin Scalia (Reagan)
104 Anthony Kennedy (Reagan)
105 David Souter (Bush, G. H. W.)
106 Clarence Thomas (Bush, G. H. W.)
107 Ruth Bader Ginsburg (Clinton)
108 Stephen Breyer (Clinon)
109 John G. Roberts† (Bush, G. W.)
110 Samuel Alito (Bush, G. W.)
111 Sonia Sotomayor (Obama)
112 Elena Kagan (Obama)

You see that 100% of the Justices appointed by Democrat presidents have been solid votes to uphold Roe v. Wade. Meanwhile, about 57% of Republican nominees have been solid pro-life votes, and Kennedy has actually voted with the pro-life block a few times to uphold some abortion restrictions (as did O’Connor in Casey). Furthermore it seems that Republican presidents have gotten better with time when it comes to appointing pro-life justices.
 
Thank you for your concern, but your omission of part of my quote (see below) specifically addresses the topic of the thread, Catholics for Ron Paul Coalition, and was in direct response to concerns another poster brought up. I am Catholic and I am for Ron Paul. As a Catholic, I want to make sure I am in line with Church teachings, and depend on fellow Catholics for guidance since there are so many resources out there, and I cannot look them all up myself.

If you read through you’ll see some have brought up that Ron may not run as a third party candidate, and I am seeking advice and resources on a situation that I may decide to write him in as a choice in the general election if I don’t find another candidate I can be comfortable in supporting.

I just got in from a 16 hour shift (got off early because I have two days of continuing education to complete over the next two days, which is required for the paramedic course that starts on Monday). I’ll check in as I can to see what people have come up with. Thanks for understanding and prayers for the upcoming course would be greatly appreciated.
Again, the USCCB has issued a Voter Guide in evaluating candidates: The USCCB Faithful Citizen Voter Guide We are not supposed to research for a Cardinal or anyone for The Viewpoint we like. That is not honest evaluation. And We should not vote One Issue, ignoring other “Inherent Evils”. That is the Church Teaching.
  • And we need to take our personal spins out: that “Socialism” or “Capitalism” are inherently evil. The Church has Never said eithr is. Only Communism and Fascism were. The Popes and Church say any Extreme is evil, if damaging.
    The problem is when we think Our attitude is normal, not extreme.
 
Thank you for your concern, but your omission of part of my quote (see below) specifically addresses the topic of the thread, Catholics for Ron Paul Coalition, and was in direct response to concerns another poster brought up. I am Catholic and I am for Ron Paul. As a Catholic, I want to make sure I am in line with Church teachings, and depend on fellow Catholics for guidance since there are so many resources out there, and I cannot look them all up myself.

If you read through you’ll see some have brought up that Ron may not run as a third party candidate, and I am seeking advice and resources on a situation that I may decide to write him in as a choice in the general election if I don’t find another candidate I can be comfortable in supporting.

I just got in from a 16 hour shift (got off early because I have two days of continuing education to complete over the next two days, which is required for the paramedic course that starts on Monday). I’ll check in as I can to see what people have come up with. Thanks for understanding and prayers for the upcoming course would be greatly appreciated.
  • God Bless you for your intense work and study, Sir.
Again, the USCCB has issued a Voter Guide in evaluating candidates: The USCCB Faithful Citizen Voter Guide We are not supposed to research for a Cardinal or anyone for The Viewpoint we like. That is not honest evaluation. And We should not vote One Issue, ignoring other “Inherent Evils”. That is the Church Teaching.
  • And we need to take our personal spins out: that “Socialism” or “Capitalism” are inherently evil. The Church has Never said either is. Only Communism and Fascism were. (They were extreme Left and Right; we lived under each) The Popes and Church say any Extreme is evil, if damaging.
    The problem is when we think Our attitude is normal, not extreme.
 
Cardinal Ratzinger was correct in articulating Church doctrine which is not “totally against” capital punishment.
The Catholic Church, Every country except 6 of ‘200’ and all USA Bishops are Totally against Capital Punishment, which is punishing by Death. Only a few backward countries have captial punishment, as do some of our states.
 
Ummm, no, I mean it. I look at Bush and Obama and I don’t see alot of difference.
There is Massive Opposites in basic Policies: Bush Focused on ending Balaced Budgets to Enrich the richest 5%, Increased Military Spending by 50% Like Reagan, began a policy of War; focused on cutting People Programs like Education, Send USA Jobs and companies to other Nations, with Taxpayer subsidies to do so, etc., etc. We are not a One Issue Society or Faith.
 
That’s not accurate. A bishop’s conference does not constitute a mini-magisterium.
“No episcopal conference, as such, has a teaching mission: its documents have no weight of their own save that of the consent given to them by the individual bishops.”
  • Cardinal Ratzinger
    And bishop’s conferences aren’t necessarily in agreement with the Vatican. The WInnipeg Statement is an example of that.
Perhaps you do not understand The Church’s Area Bishop’s Conferences, to carry out and enact Church Policy, based on Area concerns and cultures: The Canadian Bishops Conference, the USCCB, The South American Bishops Conference, etc., etc. They localize the Magesterium/Vatican Policies. Regional Bishop’s Conferences must get approval by The Vatican on their policies and actions like the Revised Mass wording pending, initiated by the Vatican/Magesterium.
Remember the Area 'Bishops conferences' of the First Century and later.
 
The Winnipeg Statement was worldwide controversial since the beginning, was tuned down in a few years, and was Reversed in 2008 by the Canadian Bishops Conference to comply with The Vatican.
 
There is Massive Opposites in basic Policies: Bush Focused on ending Balaced Budgets to Enrich the richest 5%, Increased Military Spending by 50% Like Reagan, began a policy of War; focused on cutting People Programs like Education, Send USA Jobs and companies to other Nations, with Taxpayer subsidies to do so, etc., etc. We are not a One Issue Society or Faith.
Ummmm, Truman began a policy of war (namely undeclared ones). Every president since has followed his lead. Its all in keeping with the Keynesian model that war makes a country prosperous. Reagan did not believe that a federal department of education brought any added value for the tax money spent. He was right. The DoE has been an enormous federal taxpayer boondoogle that statistically has made education in America worse. Bush amplified it with his ridiculous “No Child Left Behind”. Obama doubled down on his spending policies AND his war mongering. So, in effect, Obama is Bush III, plus all the abortion stuff. At least Bush had budgets to sign. Obama hasn’t signed one yet.
 
I always hold out hope that the diehard Ron Paul supporters will respond to reason more than diehard liberal catholic supporters of Obama. After participating in this thread, I am not so sure that’s the case.

Ishii
I always hope that Catholic GOP diehards vote more in line with the entire teachings of the Catholic Church. I’m not sure that’s possible.
 
The Catholic Church, Every country except 6 of ‘200’ and all USA Bishops are Totally against Capital Punishment, which is punishing by Death. Only a few backward countries have captial punishment, as do some of our states.
You’ll want to fire off a complaint letter to the Vatican demanding they rewrite the section on capital punishment in the Catechism of the Catholic Church because it doesn’t have an absolute prohibition against capital punishment.
 
The Winnipeg Statement was worldwide controversial since the beginning, was tuned down in a few years, and was Reversed in 2008 by the Canadian Bishops Conference to comply with The Vatican.
The Winnipeg Statement has never been retracted.
 
  • God Bless you for your intense work and study, Sir.
Again, the USCCB has issued a Voter Guide in evaluating candidates: The USCCB Faithful Citizen Voter Guide We are not supposed to research for a Cardinal or anyone for The Viewpoint we like. That is not honest evaluation. And We should not vote One Issue, ignoring other “Inherent Evils”. That is the Church Teaching.
  • And we need to take our personal spins out: that “Socialism” or “Capitalism” are inherently evil. The Church has Never said either is. Only Communism and Fascism were. (They were extreme Left and Right; we lived under each) The Popes and Church say any Extreme is evil, if damaging.
    Code:
                                                                                                                       The problem is  when  we think  Our  attitude is  normal,  not  extreme.
RERUM NOVARUM
“Hence, it is clear that the main tenet of socialism, community of goods, must be utterly rejected, since it only injures those whom it would seem meant to benefit, is directly contrary to the natural rights of mankind, and would introduce confusion and disorder into the commonweal.”
QUADRAGESIMO ANNO
“117. But what if Socialism has really been so tempered and modified as to the class struggle and private ownership that there is in it no longer anything to be censured on these points? Has it thereby renounced its contradictory nature to the Christian religion? This is the question that holds many minds in suspense. And numerous are the Catholics who, although they clearly understand that Christian principles can never be abandoned or diminished seem to turn their eyes to the Holy See and earnestly beseech Us to decide whether this form of Socialism has so far recovered from false doctrines that it can be accepted without the sacrifice of any Christian principle and in a certain sense be baptized. That We, in keeping with Our fatherly solicitude, may answer their petitions, We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth.”
 
I always hope that Catholic GOP diehards vote more in line with the entire teachings of the Catholic Church. I’m not sure that’s possible.

Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) speaks the truth - in full accord with the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” which is from the Magisterium.

I hope DEM diehards vote more in line with the entire teachings of the Catholic Church. Abortion is condemned in the CCC,
so are homosexual acts.
There is no “JUSTICE” nor “SOCIAL JUSTICE” for the approx. 1 MILLION babies who are murdered each year in the USA.

The USCCB is not the Magisterium. Nor are their liberal/progressive Staff and Committee members.

Murdering approximately 1 MILLION innocent babies each year in the USA, and exporting abortion by linking it to foreign aid is an abomination.
So is supporting Souls going to Hell - gay marriage.

There is nothing proportionate in the USA at this time in history to the MURDER of 1 million innocent babies each year.
 
There are two groups that are rabid in their support of voting for Ron Paul regardless of whether he gets the nomination or not. Ron Paul supporters and Obama supporters.
I think there are three, bob…you’ve left out those who still believe in constitutional government and the original premises upon which the country was founded. Which leaves out most of the good 'ole boy Repubs who have betrayed their conservative base for neo-conservatism.
 
👍
You have more courage than I - I keep hinting at this, but have never had the nerve to actually say it!
I would not say that it takes courage to say it… It is a stament that shows such profound ignorance of the Amercian Politicial system that it makes one wonder if literacy tests should be reinsituted.
 
Send USA Jobs and companies to other Nations, with Taxpayer subsidies to do so, etc., etc. We are not a One Issue Society or Faith.
You are aware that it was Clinton who gave China “most favored nation” trading status, aren’t you?
 
  • God Bless you for your intense work and study, Sir.
Again, the USCCB has issued a Voter Guide in evaluating candidates: The USCCB Faithful Citizen Voter Guide We are not supposed to research for a Cardinal or anyone for The Viewpoint we like. That is not honest evaluation. And We should not vote One Issue, ignoring other “Inherent Evils”. That is the Church Teaching.
  • And we need to take our personal spins out: that “Socialism” or “Capitalism” are inherently evil. The Church has Never said either is. Only Communism and Fascism were. (They were extreme Left and Right; we lived under each) The Popes and Church say any Extreme is evil, if damaging.
The problem is when we think Our attitude is normal, not extreme.
Revarum Novarum specifically condemend socialism,.

The USCCB be has no authority whatsoever over Catholics and does not speak for the Church. That is not my opinion-that is the teachings of the Catholic Church. In addition, one must be engaging in what Archbishop Chaput calls " moral and verbal gymnastics that should qualify as an Olympic event. " to read Faithful Citizenship and come to the conclusion that a candidate’s policies on war, the death penalty, taxation, health care, funding of social programs, etc. either individually or in combination mitigate their support of abortion.

.
 
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