Catholics for Ron Paul Coalition

[MMolloy]

You are of course entitled to hold this opinion, but people need to be aware that what you’re expressing is just an opinion and does not reflect the teachings of the church. Unless the Church specifically declares a war unjust, which no one contends is the case with Afghanistan or Iraq, .the decision as to whether support a war is up to this prudential judgment of the individual Catholic. . Even if a Catholic were to determine that a war was, in their opinion, unjust that would not give them a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-abortion candidate who opposed the war.

Since Obama is as big of a warmonger as Bush… what is the point of implying that anyone is trying to rationalize voting for a “pro-abortion candidate who opposed the war”?

 

[MMolloy]

Ron Paul is not the most pro-life candidate running for the Republican nomination. . Several of the other candidates are every bit as pro-life as he is. His foreign-policy positions and the domestic policies he suggests are far outside the mainstream and are rejected by the overwhelming majorities of Americans on both sides of the aisle. . However that is just my opinion and a Catholic can in good conscience support Ron Paul for president.

Once Ron Paul loses the nomination, his supporters will have the options of either supporting the pro-life Republican nominee, the most pro-abortion president in history or sitting out the election either by not voting for writing an a nonviable candidates name … The third option is , in my opinion, just as egregious as voting for Barack Obama, . But again, that is my opinion, not the teaching of the Church.

. I will tell you that after the election is over, I will care little for the opinion of those who did not vote or wasted their vote on a nonviable candidate. . I prefer the opinions of people who made the tough decisions and voted for the best option for solving the problems of the country, not those who sat on the sidelines and want to then throw stones at everybody

If it is your opinion that there are other candidates who are just as Pro-Life as Dr. Paul… Please list the candidates who have sponsored more pro-life legislation than Dr. Paul!

To continually state as fact, that which you CAN NOT know is a LIE… please desist from further deceit!

 

[MMolloy]

If Republicans had backed Ron Paul over John McCain in 2008 you would never have had Obama. By backing an “electable” conservative over a true conservative in the primaries, Catholics compromised and gambled with the life issue and got Obama in return. The ironic thing about this “lesser of two evils” argument that is used by Catholics to justify voting for “electable” conservatives over true conservatives is that it actually has the potential to hurt the pro-life position in the general election. This trend will continue. Prediction: in a general election between Obama and Romney/Perry/Bachmann, Obama wins; in a general election between Obama and Ron Paul, Ron Paul wins.

 

[MMolloy]

So nominating a canidate eho has never been able to garner moe than single digit support would have been the key to Republicsns winning the whitehouse in 2008.!!!

Ron Paul received double digit support in New Mexico, South Dakota, Idaho, Oregon, Pennsylvania (my home state where I was elected a delegate to the RNC), Kansas, Washington, North Dakota, Montana, Minnesota, Alaska, Maine, Nevada and Iowa in 2008!
cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/candidates/#302

Please stop spreading your incorrect recollections of past events as facts!

 

[MMolloy]

I agree. Ron Paul speaks from his heart and, I think, truly believes what he says. I commend him for it. I don’t have to agree with him to admire a politician that says what he believes regardless of the consequences. As I said before, he and his supporters should wear it as a badge of courage. The other fact is that his ideas and policy positions have little support beyond his small cadreof supporters. Their lack of popularity have nothing to do with a widespread ignorance, conspiracy nor mass hypnosis. They’re just simply not acceptable. They and he have been weighed and measured and found utterly lacking.

I’ve heard the same kind of baseless rhetoric from many a Pro-Abortion supporter.

 

[MMolloy]

He’ll still be getting my vote. Then, when Romney, Obama, or Perry are president in a couple years and continue the big government spending, ignoring the problems with the fed, foreign wars, social security, medicare, nothing new gets done on abortion, I will come back and say “I told you so. You wasted your vote on a guy who made promises he had no intention of keeping.”

Bingo!

I guess all the Paul haters will assuage their complicity in sacrificing another 4-6 million unborn on the ‘Altar of Pragmatism’ by saying “At least we didn’t get Obama in there again… He might have killed those children TWICE”

 

[MMolloy]

Ron Paul makes the case that the Iraq War Violates the Just War Doctrine. Is he correct?

Where does he make this case?

 

[MMolloy]

In my opinion no. However from the standpoint of the Catholic Church that determination is left up to the Prudential judgment of the individual Catholic.

. I think those who claim this war is unjust do not realize that if that is true every single Catholic who fought in these wars is guilty of mortal sin and will suffer eternal hellfire unless they repent and go to confession. I seriously doubt those making this claim are confronting Iraq war veterans and informing them of how imperiled their souls are. The claim that the war is unjust is invariably made by those trying to use it to buttress their political opinions.

So You’re saying that every German Soldier who fought under Hitler was guilty of mortal sin? Would you care to provide any Pope or Cardinal who would corroborate this dubious assertion?

 

[MMolloy]

Iraq was not a preemptive strike. Iraq was firing upon US warplanes several times a week and was in violation of the cease-fire agreement that ended hostilities from the first war. Even given these provocations the United States laid down conditions that if met would have The United States resuming hostilities.

Since the conditions imposed, sanctions and embargoes, are acts of war… what exactly is your point? If the US had invaded Haiti and the international Community led by China came and kicked us out and then imposed no-fly zones over the east and west coast… you’d be damned certain Americans would be firing at those plane imposing those no-fly zones (occupying our country).

 

[MMolloy]

There are a number of posters here who maintain that they will vote 3rd party - either writing in Ron Paul or voting for another candidate with no chance to win because they just can’t bring themselves to vote for the big bad GOP. Ron Paul may have announced that he will not run as a 3rd party, but that won’t necessarily stop die hard true-believin’ Ron Paul voters from writing him in or voting for some other kook. I also note that politicians have been known to change their minds. But I would be surprised to see Ron Paul run as a 3rd party as he’s getting a bit long in the tooth - he’ll turn 78 in 2012.

Ishii

Do you ever reply without trying to insult Dr. Paul, why do you hate him with such a passion?
As far as the age question, he replied on his Birthday yesterday “I’ve offered to ride a bicycle for 20 miles in Houston when the temperature is 100° and the humidity is 100% and I will go 20 miles with them and then we’ll decide who’s the youngest.” ronpaul.com/2011-08-20/ron-paul-76-challenges-status-quo-to-20-mile-bike-race-in-houston-heat/

 

[MMolloy]

While Ron Paul did well in the Iowa straw poll, and I admire the loyalty of his supporters, Ron Paul won’t be the nominee of the Republican party in 2012. I would bet a steak dinner on that.

Ishii

You have money to throw away… or do you consider McDs a Steak Dinner?

 

[MMolloy]

I am a bit tired of the old “moral equivalency argument” that has raised its ugly face on this thread. The idea that all countries are equal and the U.S. has no right to discourage any other country from developing and deploying nuclear weapons is absurd. Do you not see the difference between a country like the U.S. and Iran in terms of their value of human rights? Doesn’t it make sense to discourage in any way possible countries like North Korea or Iran from getting nuclear weapons? Ultimately there is a limit as to what we can do, but it seems to me a no-brainer to try to discourage in every way we can certain countries from getting nuclear weapons. One criteria I would use would be whether or not a country starves its own people or actively supports terrorism around the world. I would hope we’d do what we could to limit evil regimes like those from aquiring nuclear weapons.

Ishii

So you want to commit acts of War against Iran because you can’t sleep at night because ‘Media Induced’ Islamophobia keeps you looking under your bed for ‘terrists’ or are you just looking the world over for Monsters to slay?

 

[MMolloy]

The political reality is that come fall of 2012 there will be Obama and a GOP nominee. The nominee will not be Ron Paul but a Republican candidate who will likely try to curb spending, and nominate constructionist justices to the supreme court. Who will vote for?

Ishii

The Political Reality will be that come the fall of 2012 the race will be Obama vs Dr. Paul

 

[AntalKalnoky]

Really? Are you familiar with this quote: “No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and a true socialist.” from Pius XI? Are you aware that the problem with capitalism is the actions of individual capitalists working within the capitalist system? The problem with socialism is the socialist system itself. The Church does not condemn capitalism as such, but recognizes that there must be some restraints put on the capitalist system. The Church does not treat socialism in the same way and for good reason:

It is because socialists have elevated the material side of man over the spiritual side and made the production of goods the organizing principle of society. Socialism is condemned because it never abandoned its roots in a materialistic philosophy, ultimately grounded in atheism. And as long as it remains really socialism it will always have that cast to its principles. Incidentally, this is why European socialist parties have so often jettisoned their distinctive economic programs, but do not abandon their hostility to the Church, to protection of unborn life, to Christian marriage, and so on. The atheism and anti-Chrisitian ideology that lies behind all true socialism remains, even when socialist politicians have embraced many of the exploitive economic practices of capitalism.

I recommend that you read the whole article…mind you, I’m not sold on distributism, but I think the author explains the encylical of Pius xi very well.

distributistreview.com/mag/2010/11/a-distributist-looks-at-capitalism-and-socialism/

Ishii

Are you not familiar with What the classic Rerum Novarum found Wanting Most, and what it attacked most? Rerum Novarum found *The Greatest Problem was the incredible Poverty and abuse Of the Working Class *as well as Totally Rejecting communism and extreme socialism and extreme capitalism. Forgot the Pre-Worker laws of Child Labor, Monopoly Capitalism, No safety laws? Know that Railroad “Brakemen” of that time had Very short Life Expectancy? Child Coal miners Instead of School? What was The Problem in Each of theses? Major Capital force(es), as Rerum Novarum and Several Encyclicals Since have Taught. “Socialism” has never been Categorically denied; it is a universal system of unified efforts to solve problems, like the Progressive Tax System is Supposed to be; but Not anymore in the U.S.A.

• Can you provide The Source of Pope Piu XI’s quote you site? Did you note his Qualifying his complaint on “True” socialism, not socialism per se?
  

                                                                                                                    Your  Link  is One  Person's opinion,  not  unbiased;   good  as  any one-person's opinions  are.                                                                                                                 I'm the same kind  of  Capitalism  Supporter  as Hughey  Long  Was, paraphrasing:  'I'm  all for them,  long  as they  Pays them Taxes,  and their   workers.'  He  might  have    added  'and  supported their    Widows Kids'.   (Before  SSA,  survivors))

 

[AntalKalnoky]

ishii, have not noticed it is not indivudual capital behavior, but the basic Motivations and attitudes and behaviour of the System, Rejecting Social Action, Social Values, and Christ’s teachings? There have been Several Major Papal Encyclicals, including by Pope Benedict last, on the Major almost inherent evils of Massive Wealth power.

• Those who Follow Chist are the ideal capitalists, such as the Founder of Dominoes Pizza. Know of Him, and letting his Children earn their own Wealth after College, instead of giving their wealth to their Children as 75% of American Wealth is Inherited, as GW Bush did, not Earning it?
  

                                                                                                                    I know several businessmen  who  Value their  Employees  as Number One, even if Not  Religious; It Is the Ideal Business Plan. I can Name  Big  and Small.  One of the  Most  respected  Big   Supermarket  Chains is Very  ideally Catholic  methodology,  and  has  Very Major  extra  Labor Force, instead of  laying off for  Electronic Checkout  (with Zero  Self Checkout  capability; if   checkout  short,  a  Manager  does the  Checkouts!.   They  are Highly Profitable  Also!  And   among the   Very Top  Rated  in Customer  Satisfaction And Business Operations!.   Few know the  Owners  are Catholic, Living the Faith, in detail,  in Business.                                                                                               Scuse my  Germanic Culture    Domineering  capitalizations; it's   all Cultural   And Catholic  Truth  Domineering,  with respect to  all.      :hey_bud::knight1::angel1:

 

[Homefries1313]

1holycatholic: You make some good points on Just War. Would you then say that Nation Building is trying to increase the sphere of influence? When it became clear that there were no WMDs in Iraq and after Saddam was captured, wouldn’t it then have been correct for the US to leave, according to the Just War Doctrine?

 

[gilliam]

Looks like Juan Cole is now behind what NATO is doing in Libya. I guess that makes him a nation builder too. juancole.com/2011/08/the-great-tripoli-uprising.html

 

[Seamus_L]

Ron Paul made some interesting comments yesterday that appeared to be off the cuff regarding detention camps within the USA. In an answer to a question whether H.R. 645 (The National Emergency Centers Establishment Act) could lead to Americans being incarcerated in detention camps during a time of martial law. Paul quickly responded by saying that Yeah, that’s their goal, they’re setting up the stage for violence in this country, no doubt about it,"
I look at that and say, this is not a teenage blogger who's read a few books posting his thoughts online, but rather a highly respected long time congressman, presidential candidate and constitutional authority.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Ron Paul made some interesting comments yesterday that appeared to be off the cuff regarding detention camps within the USA. In an answer to a question whether H.R. 645 (The National Emergency Centers Establishment Act) could lead to Americans being incarcerated in detention camps during a time of martial law. Paul quickly responded by saying that Yeah, that’s their goal, they’re setting up the stage for violence in this country, no doubt about it,"

                             I  look at that and say, this is not a teenage blogger  who's read a few books  posting his thoughts online, but rather a highly respected long time congressman, presidential candidate and constitutional authority.

Who has been in Congress for 30 years and knows a thing or two about what the government does behind closed doors.

 

[gilliam]

Ron Paul made some interesting comments yesterday that appeared to be off the cuff regarding detention camps within the USA. In an answer to a question whether H.R. 645 (The National Emergency Centers Establishment Act) could lead to Americans being incarcerated in detention camps during a time of martial law. Paul quickly responded by saying that Yeah, that’s their goal, they’re setting up the stage for violence in this country, no doubt about it,"

Very weird statement by Paul