Catholics...For Your Advise.

[ralphinal]

Ralphinal,

I am getting somewhere with you, but nowhere with the others.

If you observe carefully, you will notice that there are certain things kept secret from even Jesus. Jesus once said…nobody knows, only the Father, and Jesus said Just as my Father sent me, I send you. Notice that unless the Father sents, nobody can come to Jesus.

This is the differentiating factor between what you believe and what I believe.

JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.. He was NOT the Father. The Bible says this very clearly…He was the SON.

I have already shown you that the Bible itself declared that Jesus was a conception of the Holy Ghost. NOwhere did it attribute it to Mary, and Mary herself declared herself a maid/servant of God.

It is ONLY the CATHOLICS themselves who insist on deitifying her.

.

Let’s look at this line by line.

First, things were withheld from Jesus. To my memory, the only one was the exact time of the end. That is fitting as it is NOT the Redeemer’s job to end the world, only to save it. The Creator is the one who says “It is over” just like He said “Let there be light.” If you can list anything else that Jesus said that he did not know, I would appreciate it.

Second, we both agree that Jesus is the Son of God. Now, do you understand that he is also the Second Person of the Trinity? Does that mean, to you, that Jesus IS God?

Third, what does how Jesus was conceived have to do with the point that Mary is his Mother? Either she IS his mother or she is not. Either Jesus IS God or he is not. If Jesus IS God, Mary is the Mother of God. That does not mean that she predates him. It means that she is the Mother of the Word Made Flesh. Christ has his Divinity from his Father and his humanity from his Mother, but he is still God.

Finally, Catholics have never deified Mary.

 

[Anna_Scott]

From my knowledge of Protestantism and The Friends, all have agreed that teaching is essential, for how else can one learn. All acknowledge that the Bible is “the Daughter of the Catholic Church”, although they may not agree with the Catholic Canon. Also, I wouldn’t use the term “whacked out” for The Friends. They are Christians, but a bit different. There are no sermons at their “meetings”, but each member may get up and speak of religious matters when they feel that they are inspired. And rest assured, I have too much repect for Protestants to ever consider mosacked as one. Sorry to say that he is too far out of the ball park to be one.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Thank you! :clapping:

It is difficult to determine the source of Mosacked’s beliefs. They are certainly not from any mainstream Protestant Church that I am aware of.

Anna

 

[jmcrae]

You know…

1 - That God has no beginning, yet you made Him a mother.

She did for him what mothers do for their children - she gave him her DNA for his flesh, and she bore him in her womb for nine months until he was born. She also suckled him at her breast, washed him, clothed him, fed him, and raised him up, educating him and giving him a profession, so that he could make his way in this world.

She lacked nothing that a mother does for her children. No mother “creates” her child -God creates all children.

2 - That Jesus told everyone to go to straight to Him, yet you put between Him and mankind bishops.

Those Bishops were appointed by the lawful successors of the Apostles.

3 - That the Holy Ghost is the anointment and counselor, yet you put human teachers to corrupt teachings.

No one can learn anything, without a teacher. Read the Book of Proverbs.

4 - That Jesus taught His disciples to love one another and to serve one another, yet you constructed hierarchical systems to bestow authority one over the other and claim these to be spiritual.

Read I Corinthians 12.

5 - That there is no truth in the succession of church leadership because Jesus Himself is the Head.

It is because Jesus is the Head, that there is a Body. The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ. Read I Corinthians 12.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Thank you! :clapping:

It is difficult to determine the source of Mosacked’s beliefs. They are certainly not from any mainstream Protestant Church that I am aware of.

Anna

i think he is using baptists websites.

 

[wanner47]

i think he is using baptists websites.

Given his denial of the Trinity and his adherence to what seems to be his own translation of Scripture, I’m thinking some sort of Oneness Pentecostal or some brand of JW.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Also, I wouldn’t use the term “whacked out” for The Friends. They are Christians, but a bit different. There are no sermons at their “meetings”, but each member may get up and speak of religious matters when they feel that they are inspired.

Good post.

For the record, I was trying to think where this guy might be coming from. I thought possibly Friends since they are the only Protestants I know of that do not have messages at their meetings.

But then I remembered the Friends that post here (like Publisher) are not wacky (even though we disagree on moral theology) as this poster is. That is why I know that this poster is not one of them. So I have absolutely no idea where he is coming from. Maybe if he could provide that info it would be helpful to you all (who apparantly like :banghead::banghead

I may have been unclear in saying that. Publisher, I was not trying to say Friends are wacky. In fact I was trying to say the opposite.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Ana, Has Mosaccked not been banned yet…Are all the Mod. sleeping

I don’t think that irrationality is grounds for banning here but maybe I am wrong.

Concerning thinking rationally, here is my one contribution to this thread.

There is a property in mathematics, I admit I forgot the name of it but they teach this in 6th grade math if not earlier.

If (A=B) AND (B=C) then (A=C). Sounds logical, correct.

So.

If Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God…then

By the above property Mary is the mother of God.

To deny this, one of the three is true
(a) You don’t believe Mary is the mother of Jesus
(b) You don’t believe Jesus is God
(c) You can not think logically and rationally per 6th grade math.

A and B are heretical positions. So I hope that what we are dealing with here is C.

 

[Javl]

I don’t think that irrationality is grounds for banning here but maybe I am wrong.

Concerning thinking rationally, here is my one contribution to this thread.

There is a property in mathematics, I admit I forgot the name of it but they teach this in 6th grade math if not earlier.

If (A=B) AND (B=C) then (A=C). Sounds logical, correct.

So.

If Mary is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God…then

By the above property Mary is the mother of God.

To deny this, one of the three is true
(a) You don’t believe Mary is the mother of Jesus
(b) You don’t believe Jesus is God
(c) You can not think logically and rationally per 6th grade math.

A and B are heretical positions. So I hope that what we are dealing with here is C.

I believe that he is proselytizing. He is trying to spread his brand of Christianity, much like Charles Taze Russel, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith, etc. Read his posts on this and other threads. He is just as confrontational and will not listen. He insists that we are all in error and he alone knows and has the “truth”. If He is proselytizing, then he should be banned.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[wisdomseeker]

I believe that he is proselytizing. He is trying to spread his brand of Christianity, much like Charles Taze Russel, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith, etc. Read his posts on this and other threads. He is just as confrontational and will not listen. He insists that we are all in error and he alone knows and has the “truth”. If He is proselytizing, then he should be banned.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

no, we need him to stay. we will keep hitting him with the Truth until he gets it.

 

[ralphinal]

I believe that he is proselytizing. He is trying to spread his brand of Christianity, much like Charles Taze Russel, Mary Baker Eddy, Joseph Smith, etc. Read his posts on this and other threads. He is just as confrontational and will not listen. He insists that we are all in error and he alone knows and has the “truth”. If He is proselytizing, then he should be banned.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I am not sure that he is. I think that he means well and is trying to save us. Sure, he would love us to come to his side, but I think us leaving Rome would be a start for him

no, we need him to stay. we will keep hitting him with the Truth until he gets it.

No. We need to pray that he be open to the Truth. None of us can convert anyone. All we can do is try to plant a seed that the Spirit will work on

 

[ralphinal]

I wonder if the phrase was “John the Baptist, Cousin of God” we would be having the same trouble

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

You are anointed by God and you need to be taught by men???

The Lord sent his Apostles, who were men, by the way, to go into the world and preach the Gospel and to “TEACH them to carry out everything I have commended you.” Mt. 28:20. Not a very good reader, are you?

Just listen to yourself. You are saying that you are attending kindergarten after attending convocation.

Why not listen to yourself? By your activity here you show clearly you have yet to attend kindergarten. Hubris is a dangerous trait in some people. In you it’s a joke.

Either you are deceiving yourself, or these people who are teaching you must be God in disguise.

Care to tell us how you come to that absurd conclusion?

…the conclusion we are therefore forced to undertake is that you must be delusional.

There is definitely someone delusional here. As others have suggested, you might consider taking a good, hard look at yourself. What I see is bigoted ugliness squared. Is that what you intend?

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.. He was NOT the Father. The Bible says this very clearly…He was the SON.

As long as we’re quoting Scripture here, let’s quote some more. “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father; anyone who has seen the Father has seen me.”

I am in the Father and the Father is in me."

“Before time began, I AM.”

“In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.”

Citations omitted. Emphasis mine. Now, Mo, what about ‘…the Word was God.’ don’t you understand? You say you read the Bible? Give it up. You reading the Bible is a hopeless waste of time. A monkey would get more out of it than you. Pray. Fervently. Do penance. Do self-flagellation and if that doesn’t work, try self-immolation. It’s a killer.

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

It is difficult to determine the source of Mosacked’s beliefs. They are certainly not from any mainstream Protestant Church that I am aware of./QUOTE]
There are thousands of people like Mo, I’m afraid. They are popes of their own beliefs, wholly invented by them. Each reads essentially the same Bible and each comes away with a different conclusion, all the while claiming the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It’s the logical end to the heresy of Martin Luther, who saw it happening and lamented it before he died.

 

[Javl]

Anna Scott;6013121:

It is difficult to determine the source of Mosacked’s beliefs. They are certainly not from any mainstream Protestant Church that I am aware of./QUOTE]
There are thousands of people like Mo, I’m afraid. They are popes of their own beliefs, wholly invented by them. Each reads essentially the same Bible and each comes away with a different conclusion, all the while claiming the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It’s the logical end to the heresy of Martin Luther, who saw it happening and lamented it before he died.

Each one claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit into truth. If that is so then how come tthere is so much confusion? The Holy Spirit is God and God is not the author of confusion. Are they then truly guided by the Holy Spirit?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Mosacked]

As long as we’re quoting Scripture here, let’s quote some more. “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father; anyone who has seen the Father has seen me.”

I am in the Father and the Father is in me."

“Before time began, I AM.”

“In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.”

Citations omitted. Emphasis mine. Now, Mo, what about ‘…the Word was God.’ don’t you understand? You say you read the Bible? Give it up. You reading the Bible is a hopeless waste of time. A monkey would get more out of it than you. Pray. Fervently. Do penance. Do self-flagellation and if that doesn’t work, try self-immolation. It’s a killer.

And you choose to ignore what the Bible says over what you wish to interpret.

The Bible said Jesus was the SON of God. The Bible never said Jesus was the Father. The Bible merely said Jesus was IN the Father and the Father was in Him.

If I say, that your body odour is on me and my odour is in you…does that mean I am you? And if I say if you have smelt me, you have smelt Ferde, does that mean I am you? And if I say your smell is the same as mine does it mean I am you? NO. I AM NOT YOU.

GOD IS A SPIRIT. IF THE SPIRIT OF GOD RESTS UPON ME AND INSPIRES ME TO TELL YOU ‘FERDE, WHEN YOU SPEAK TO ME, YOU SPEAKETH TO GOD’, DOES THAT MEAN I AM GOD??? **NO!
**

The problem with Catholics is they deitify that which should be humbled (eg. Mary) and they humble that which should be exalted (Jesus).
.

 

[Mosacked]

You are the blasphemer!
When Elizabeth calls Mary “the mother of my Lord”, she calls Mary “Theotokos!” Remember who “the Lord” is?

And what about the Apostle Thomas, who exclaims “Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου” = “My Lord and my God”?

And I could keep at this all day, taking you through the Gospels and the rest of the NT, pointing out where Jesus is glorified as God. The fact that Jesus is God is indisputable!

(it is ALSO indisputable that Jesus is God the Son, not God the Father, cf. Athanasium)

Answer now: Is Jesus God?
If your answer is “no” then you have anathematized yourself, and placed yourself outside of not only the RC church, but outside of Christendom itself.
If your answer is “yes”, then you must also admit that since Mary is the mother of Jesus, then she is also the mother of God! To deny that Mary is Theotokos is to deny the divinity of Christ

Jesus is God - Agree
Jesus is not God the Father - Agree
Mary is NOT the mother of God - Agree

• Mary did NOT give birth to divinity…the divinity was conceived BY THE HOLY GHOST. Mary was MERELY A VESSEL…A HUMBLE SERVANT OF GOD.

If God can be compared to a human, then we humans must be compared to apes because we are of a MUCH lower class. As I said before, if a human doctor puts a human foetus is one of us monkeys, it doesn’t make the monkeys the mother of humans. God has no mother since He IS THE BEGINNING. To say it otherwise is blasphemy.
.

 

[Mosacked]

No Jharek, the problem is this. And I cannot think of any other possible analogy to show you the great difference between humans and the glorious and holy God.

There was a group of monkeys in the jungle that was targetted by a renowned physician for laboratory work on human pregnancy in monkeys. One of them, a uniquely obedient and quiet one was chosen and she was impregnated through test-tubes to carry a human foetus. When the baby was born, all the surrounding monkeys worshipped that female monkey as the mother of humans.

Which really is not totally wrong, because she did carry that human foetus. cos if any monkey appears to question the council of monkeys they will surely scream back “BUT SHE DID GIVE BIRTH TO A HUMAN!” Now…if only monkey could speak human language and tell the doctor. 'SO…EH…WE ARE THE PARENTS OF HUMANITY!..and since you left your book behind during your lab work we decided to teach our people what we want them to know and tell them that the book of humans came from us monkeys.

As for you, we will talk to you through our female monkey and have designated our monkey chief to represent you as vicar.

…and THAT’S REALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING!!!
.

 

[LutheranDK]

Mary is NOT the mother of God - Agree

DISAGREE!
By denying that Mary is “Theotokos”, you deny that Jesus is “Theos”! It really is that simple.

• Mary did NOT give birth to divinity…the divinity was conceived BY THE HOLY GHOST. Mary was MERELY A VESSEL…A HUMBLE SERVANT OF GOD.

God has no mother since He IS THE BEGINNING. To say it otherwise is blasphemy.
.

God the Father has no mother. God the Son does - the second Person of the Holy Trinity has a mother because of the fact that he is HUMAN!
Jesus is 100% God and 100% Human.

By saying that Jesus is not God, it is **you **who blaspheme - not us.

 

[Mosacked]

Jharek, it sounds offensive because you’re right in the middle of it, and not because I gave a wrong answer.

In my example, please note that the female monkey never dared call herself the mother of humans, instead she openly declared herself a servant. It is only the community of surrounding monkeys who INSIST on elevating her to call her the mother of humans.

.