Catholics...For Your Advise.

[humblelurker]

Mosacked said:

Humblelurker, I was not able to answer your question because some people here think I might have been overly convincing with my answers and in order to stop me in my tracks they had my account suspended for many days.

I don’t believe you have been overly convincing at all. In fact there have been posts that you have never answered all of the questions or didn’t fully understand what was being said. In fact you ignored my post # 151, and your response in post #169 that was suppose to answer my post # 155 either missed the point of my entire post or didn’t address everything in my entire post. In fact your response saying,

That divine and holy spirit came from heaven, NOT from Mary.

Clealy shows that you didn’t understand me at all, and not just me but many of us here (protestant and catholic alike).

Furthermore you didn’t answer all of my questions in post #155, but in your own way you did answer in the fact that you apparently have not done your homework in early Christian history.

I suggest you reread all of the posts in this thread. Don’t just hear what we say but prayerfully listen to us. You have been answered.

Mosacked said:

…some people here think I might have been overly convincing with my answers…

AND

But catholics insist on listening to human teachers who do not even possess the Holy Ghost to lead them.

Having spent most of my childhood and adolescent life like a second class citizen these statements seem to me to be filled with arrogance and a judgmental attitude. I hope this is not the case because such presuppositions sometimes come with ignorance and hate. I pray this is not the case.

Having read this thread I am convinced that you don’t want answers. So I will pray for you and leave you in the hands of God.

May God bless you and be with you.

 

[nsper7]

Mosacked, if you don’t like our answers and don’t like our devotion to Mother Mary and the Church that Our Lord founded and died for…well, you’re not going to convince us your man-made junk theology (which even many Protestants here disagree with: another wonderful example of Protestant unity right there), then, as the old saying goes: don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[Deconi]

The body of flesh that Jesus had was not a result of a woman+man union. It was made through the power of the Spirit. If it was not it would have possessed original sin, and a sinful body cannot house/host the Holy Spirit of God. Also that body would not be suitable for use as a perfect sacrifice. The body of Jesus is wholly human, but that does not imply that Mary conceived Jesus, instead the Bible declares that the conception of Jesus was the work of the Holy Spirit. So, yes, it is normal human flesh, but it is not with sin. Because flesh from a woman+man union inherits original sin. Remember, all man has sin. And THAT INCLUDES MARY.

The bible says NONE IS RIGHTEOUS.

If Jesus was merely a replica of Mary’s flesh or a resultant of her flesh (which is sinful), then there would have been no use for the Holy Ghost. If she had been sinless, then it might as well been Mary who is to be crucified on the cross as the perfect sacrifice.

.

Mos, the problem we see with your views is that ‘your’ God is limited by your understanding. If you cannot understand what He can do, therefore, he cannot do it!

Secondly, your views are confined to Scriptures. If it is not is Scriptures, then it cannot be true! You should now know what Catholics think of Sola Scriptura, and if not, read around the threads. While you do, examine the version of Bible you’re using. It sounds like you have a few books missing.

Lastly, your idea is that God USED Mary as a cocoon, only! You seem to think that God, who proclaims to be Good, used a human being as just a carcass and then discard them! If that is so, what is the point of a faith in a being that may be doing the same thing to you and us and may discard us when He is finished?!

It is clear you have questions about The Book you read. But most of the issues you have cited were shared by many during the infancy of Christianity! Judaism, for instance, reject Christ over similar thought; that God CANNOT do what THEY cannot comprehend given their understanding up to the arrival of Christ. So they ran back to Scriptures (only) and came up with the view that God NEVER said the Messiah would be a God-Man; therefore, this one is not The One!

READ!

 

[PJM]

Humblelurker, I was not able to answer your question because some people here think I might have been overly convincing with my answers and in order to stop me in my tracks they had my account suspended for many days.

Anyway, I don’t recall not answering your question, please re-post them and try to be brief.

As for my stand. I only have this to say which has never been challenged.

1 - Mary herself called herself a slave of God in the book of Luke. But catholics elevate her to the status of ‘Mother of God’. As I have already pointed out, Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus who is God, but that does not make her the mother of God. God IS A SPIRIT. That divine and holy spirit came from heaven, NOT from Mary. Mary was merely a humble vessel. To call Mary as the Mother of God is BLASPHEMY.

2 - Jesus already said ‘No man goes to the Father EXCEPT through me’ and He also said the COUNSELOR will teach us Himself unto all things. But catholics insist on listening to human teachers who do not even possess the Holy Ghost to lead them.

My dear friend in Christ,

***posted below are the Latin Vulgate and KJB verses of Luke ch. 1

Vulgate:*** And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

KJB… ******And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

You will note my friend that BOTH afffirm that Jeus is the Son of God, and the Son of Mary.

**Therefore Jesus who is true man and true God, possessing BOTH His Godly Nature and a Fully human nature, like us in al ways but sin.

In that Jesus was, is and continues to be the God +man, and Mary is His Mother, Mary thus is Mother of Jesus who too is God, and thus is factually the “Mother of God!” Amen!

So friend, it is NOT we Catholics, but the Bible which we hold [2 Tim.3:16, again in both bibles], to be the complete and infallible true teachings of God making the claim and statinf thee fact.**

***Catholic neither teach nor believe Mary to be our Redeemer. Salvation is through Christ alone.

Mary does play a role in salvation, but is of, from and through the merits of Christ *and in accord with God’s Divine Will. By herself she is just a [God] PERFECTED human being.

Indeed God is a Spirit. Are you saying Jesus is NOT GOD:shrug: And are you aware freind that God Created us in His Nature [Gen. 1:26-29]? Humanity is blessed with a mind, intellect and freewill; all SPIRITUAL THINGS.

Are you suggesting that God can’t do this

Love and prayers, and we are glad to have you back.**
Pat

 

[Javl]

Mosacked;6038090:

Humblelurker, I was not able to answer your question because some people here think I might have been overly convincing with my answers and in order to stop me in my tracks they had my account suspended for many days.

Anyway, I don’t recall not answering your question, please re-post them and try to be brief.

As for my stand. I only have this to say which has never been challenged.

1 - Mary herself called herself a slave of God in the book of Luke. But catholics elevate her to the status of ‘Mother of God’. As I have already pointed out, Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus who is God, but that does not make her the mother of God. God IS A SPIRIT. That divine and holy spirit came from heaven, NOT from Mary. Mary was merely a humble vessel. To call Mary as the Mother of God is BLASPHEMY.

2 - Jesus already said ‘No man goes to the Father EXCEPT through me’ and He also said the COUNSELOR will teach us Himself unto all things. But catholics insist on listening to human teachers who do not even possess the Holy Ghost to lead them.

My dear friend in Christ,

***posted below are the Latin Vulgate and KJB verses of Luke ch. 1

Vulgate:*** And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

KJB… ******And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

You will note my friend that BOTH afffirm that Jeus is the Son of God, and the Son of Mary.

Therefore Jesus who is true man and true God, possessing BOTH His Godly Nature and a Fully human nature, like us in al ways but sin.

In that Jesus was, is and continues to be the God +man, and Mary is His Mother, Mary thus is Mother of Jesus who too is God, and thus is factually the “Mother of God!” Amen!

So friend, it is NOT we Catholics, but the Bible which we hold [2 Tim.3:16, again in both bibles], to be the complete and infallible true teachings of God making the claim and statinf thee fact.

***Catholic neither teach nor believe Mary to be our Redeemer. Salvation is through Christ alone.

Mary does play a role in salvation, but is of, from and through the merits of Christ ***and in accord with God’s Divine Will. By herself she is just a [God] PERFECTED human being.

Indeed God is a Spirit. Are you saying Jesus is NOT GOD:shrug: And are you aware freind that God Created us in His Nature [Gen. 1:26-29]? Humanity is blessed with a mind, intellect and freewill; all SPIRITUAL THINGS.

Are you suggesting that God can’t do this

Love and prayers, and we are glad to have you back.

Pat

Mosacked:

By reading some of the astounding and erroneous statements you have made in your posts on this thread, I would like to paraphrase what a forum member ( Tomster ) told you on a post in another thread " I don’t know where you got your degree in theology, but if I were you I would go and ask for my money back".

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Bill_Pick]

PJM;6041344:

Mosacked:

By reading some of the astounding and erroneous statements you have made in your posts on this thread, I would like to paraphrase what a forum member ( Tomster ) told you on a post in another thread " I don’t know where you got your degree in theology, but if I were you I would go and ask for my money back".

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem
,Amen on getting your money back,and three days was not fair it needs to be a month,so you may leard something and stop with all your ignorance

 

[Mosacked]

Alright.

So, you deny that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit but instead say that he was created within Mary by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Is that right?

And, if NONE are righteous, please explain this list…

Joseph in Matthew 1:19,
Simeon in Luke 2:25
Abel in Hebrews 11:4.
Noah in Genesis 6:9,
Cornelius in Acts 10:22,
Lot in 2 Peter 2:7
David in First Kings 3:6.
Rahab in James 2:25.

Noah, Daniel, and Job, in Ezekiel 14:12 “even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness,” declares the Sovereign Lord.

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness (Verse 3, Chapter 4 of the book of Romans.). It says, “The statement it was credited to him was not written only for Abraham’s sake, but also for our sake, to which it will be credited, those who believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead” in 4:23-24.

So, either Paul is contradicting the rest of the Bible, including himself, OR what you are saying is not what he is saying. Notice that in some of the verses, it is God himself who calls them Righteous

Ralph, you answered this question yourself " Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness"

Similarly, in the book of Romans 3 it declares that NO ONE is righteous…it then goes on to say in book 4 …[Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares righteous the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness.]

Now, how did all these people became righteous? FAITH. According to book 4 and your quote, they were deemed righteous because of their FAITH. NOT because they were without sin but because of their faith. This is a very important understanding.

Remember what the Bible says when it said Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man (Adam), and death through sin, in this way death spread to all men, because all sinned.

The bible says it very clearly that because Adam sinned, therefore ALL men sinned. Now, is Mary a descendant of Adam? Of course she is! So, does she have sin? You should know the answer for this.

.

 

[Mosacked]

PJM;6041344:

Mosacked:

By reading some of the astounding and erroneous statements you have made in your posts on this thread, I would like to paraphrase what a forum member ( Tomster ) told you on a post in another thread " I don’t know where you got your degree in theology, but if I were you I would go and ask for my money back".

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Javl, with all due respect… I already gave you the example of the surrogate monkey with the human foetus.

Now, if the human physician could speak monkey language and tells the female monkey ’ therefore also that being which shall be born of thee shall be called the son of human.’ would the human speaker then be in error? No.

But is the monkey therefore the mother of the human? And hence all monkeys call her the Mother Of Human???

What do you think???

 

[Mosacked]

What is ridiculous is that you are poorly equipped in Scripture. If Jesus had sinned you and everyone of us would end up in the fires of Hell.

Did David come before Jesus or Jesus before David?

What did David say about Jesus? Can you quote for me?

.

 

[Mosacked]

Jharek, if that concept does not sink into you or you think it is totally absurd, there’s noway we can have a discussion because my opinions are incredibly unbelievable to you.

By that it just means your mind is already CLOSED to whatever I may say.

.

.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Mosacked;6038090:

Humblelurker, I was not able to answer your question because some people here think I might have been overly convincing with my answers and in order to stop me in my tracks they had my account suspended for many days.

Anyway, I don’t recall not answering your question, please re-post them and try to be brief.

As for my stand. I only have this to say which has never been challenged.

1 - Mary herself called herself a slave of God in the book of Luke. But catholics elevate her to the status of ‘Mother of God’. As I have already pointed out, Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus who is God, but that does not make her the mother of God. God IS A SPIRIT. That divine and holy spirit came from heaven, NOT from Mary. Mary was merely a humble vessel. To call Mary as the Mother of God is BLASPHEMY.

2 - Jesus already said ‘No man goes to the Father EXCEPT through me’ and He also said the COUNSELOR will teach us Himself unto all things. But catholics insist on listening to human teachers who do not even possess the Holy Ghost to lead them.

My dear friend in Christ,

***posted below are the Latin Vulgate and KJB verses of Luke ch. 1

Vulgate:*** And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

KJB… ******And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

You will note my friend that BOTH afffirm that Jeus is the Son of God, and the Son of Mary.

Therefore Jesus who is true man and true God, possessing BOTH His Godly Nature and a Fully human nature, like us in al ways but sin.

In that Jesus was, is and continues to be the God +man, and Mary is His Mother, Mary thus is Mother of Jesus who too is God, and thus is factually the “Mother of God!” Amen!

So friend, it is NOT we Catholics, but the Bible which we hold [2 Tim.3:16, again in both bibles], to be the complete and infallible true teachings of God making the claim and statinf thee fact.

***Catholic neither teach nor believe Mary to be our Redeemer. Salvation is through Christ alone.

Mary does play a role in salvation, but is of, from and through the merits of Christ ***and in accord with God’s Divine Will. By herself she is just a [God] PERFECTED human being.

Indeed God is a Spirit. Are you saying Jesus is NOT GOD:shrug: And are you aware freind that God Created us in His Nature [Gen. 1:26-29]? Humanity is blessed with a mind, intellect and freewill; all SPIRITUAL THINGS.

Are you suggesting that God can’t do this

Love and prayers, and we are glad to have you back.

Pat

Mos, This stantment is just not true your acct has not been touch as of today 12/12/2009 so why do you think you must lie to make your self feel good-------------

Humblelurker,::"" I was not able to answer your question because some people here think I might have been overly convincing with my answers and in order to stop me in my tracks they had my account suspended for many days""

 

[Mosacked]

Say it anyway you want. Your mind is closed.

.

 

[Mosacked]

You reject that which is explained.
You reject that she is put into an example.

What do you not reject? Lies?

If someone compares me to an animal… I would start to think WHY the analogy is given. NOT insult the person for comparing cos he/she would have given me a better understanding of WHY the analogy was given in the 1st place.

• Proverbs 12:15 A fool’s way is right in his own eyes, but whoever listens to counsel is wise.

.

 

[Mosacked]

I’m not praising myself. Only God. Even Mary calls herself a slave of God.

I am not attempting to bring anybody into disrepute…I am only showing you your folly of calling the human Mary as the Mother of the Omnipotent ALPHA and OMEGA - YAHWEH.

Luke 1:38 “I am the Lord’s slave,” said Mary. “May it be done to me according to your word.”

.

 

[Bill_Pick]

PJM;6041344:

Mos, This stantment is just not true your acct has not been touch as of today 12/12/2009 so why do you think you must lie to make your self feel good-------------
Mosacked;6038090:

Humblelurker,::"" I was not able to answer your question because some people here think I might have been overly convincing with my answers and in order to stop me in my tracks they had my account suspended for many days""

How long does it take to banned some people from this board,this person need to be report and not just not three days

 

[Anna_Scott]

(name removed by moderator),

Mosacked’s posts are offensive to many Protestants, myself included. His claims deny the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament and the words of the New Testament. Nothing anyone says to him makes any difference. He antagonizes and refuses to answer inconvenient questions.

He never answered the following post:

Who has said that the “Divine part” of Jesus came from Mary? Jesus was conceived through the Holy Spirit. No one on this Thread is claiming otherwise.

Who has deified Mary? Catholics have clearly stated they do not deify or worship Mary.

No one is claiming that Mary was the “producer” of that which came from heaven.

Your claim that Mary was a “surrogate,” denies both the Prophecies of the OT, and the very words of the NT. There is no Scripture that claims Mary was a surrogate–so you are re-writing the N.T. for your own purposes. You are altering Holy Scripture–very dangerous.

The O.T. contains many prophecies regarding the coming of Christ–notice He would come as a descendant of David, according to the flesh, a son of David’s body. Jesus as “fully man” was a descendant through the line of David, as foretold by prophecy.

**2 Samuel 7: **12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

Psalm 132: 11 The LORD swore to David a sure oath from which he will not turn back: “One of the sons of your body I will set on your throne. . .”

Jesus was descended from David “according to the flesh.”

Romans 1:
1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,

Jesus came as God incarnate, the Word became flesh.

John 1 (ESV): 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 ( John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Jesus was “born of a woman, born under the law.”

Galatians 4: 4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,

To deny that Mary is the Mother of Jesus, is to deny that Jesus came in the flesh, as a descendant of David.

Your denial has serious ramifications, extending to the crucifixion of Christ and His atonement of our sins through the sacrifice of His body and blood.

You malign the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus, the mother of God Incarnate.

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph, you answered this question yourself " Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness"

Similarly, in the book of Romans 3 it declares that NO ONE is righteous…it then goes on to say in book 4 …[Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares righteous the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness.]

Now, how did all these people became righteous? FAITH. According to book 4 and your quote, they were deemed righteous because of their FAITH. NOT because they were without sin but because of their faith. This is a very important understanding.

Remember what the Bible says when it said Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man (Adam), and death through sin, in this way death spread to all men, because all sinned.

The bible says it very clearly that because Adam sinned, therefore ALL men sinned. Now, is Mary a descendant of Adam? Of course she is! So, does she have sin? You should know the answer for this.

.

Did Mary have faith?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Please remember this person is a christadeianianns, and belong to a cult

 

[Bill_Pick]

Jharek, Sorry To big a wrod for me to spell I,lL stay with JW. I can spell it. But that is my #2 error in 35 years and thats not bad

 

[Anna_Scott]

Please remember this person is a christadeianianns, and belong to a cult

Did Mosacked say he was a Christadelphian? Somehow I missed that.

Anna