Catholics...For Your Advise.

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Mosacked said:
Javl;6041824:
Javl, with all due respect… I already gave you the example of the surrogate monkey with the human foetus.

Now, if the human physician could speak monkey language and tells the female monkey ’ therefore also that being which shall be born of thee shall be called the son of human.’ would the human speaker then be in error? No.

But is the monkey therefore the mother of the human? And hence all monkeys call her the Mother Of Human???

What do you think???
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Mosacked, with all due respect, that is a very poor example to use. To me it is tantamount to blasphemy. Your understanding of the Virgin Birth of Jesus and for Mary, Jesus’ mother, to be the Mother of God is irrational and makes no sense whatsoever. When the Gospels were written, those that wrote them knew exactly what they were writing. They stated that Jesus is divine and that Mary is His Mother, and as such she is the Mother of God, the Son. I don’t remember offhand the word used in Aramaic, but it translates Theotokos—“God Bearer”. Luke wrote his Gospel in Koine Greek and he used that word to describe Mary. According to you, all the translators and scholars who have used the term God Bearer, or Mother of God. are wrong and do not know what they are talking about. I say this to you in all charity, please give up your ideas and learn the Truth.
I will pray for you.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
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Anna_Scott said:
Did Mosacked say he was a Christadelphian? Somehow I missed that.

Anna
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No he didn’t. It was just a guess. From what I know of Christadelphians, he is too far off base to be one. Even they don’t go as far as he has ( and they go off base pretty far ).

Len

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Anna_Scott said:
Did Mosacked say he was a Christadelphian? Somehow I missed that.

Anna
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This is what they believe ,you tell me if it is a cult

What Christadelphians Believe
The Christadelphians, “Brothers and Sisters in Christ”, are a body of Bible believing people, who aim to live by faith in Jesus Christ, according to the teaching of his followers from the first century AD, finding their instruction in a wholly inspired Bible. Central to Christadelphian belief is that Christ will one day return to the Earth to establish the Kingdom of God and grant eternal life to his people - those who have tried to follow him and God.

What Christadelphians Believe gives an introduction to each of the key areas of Christadelphian belief. Although you may disagree with some of the points made here you will see that all Christadelphian beliefs are firmly rooted in the Bible.

The fundamental Christadelphian beliefs are:

The Bible is God’s word and the only message from him. It is without error, except for copying and translation errors. (2 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:1. See also: The Bible, Why I Believe the Bible, and Alleged Biblical Errors.)
There is only one God - the Father. The Holy Spirit is God’s power. (John 17:3, Luke 1:35, Deuteronomy 6:4. See also God, Jesus and the Crucifixion, and The Trinity.)
Jesus is the Son of God, and also the son of a human being, his mother Mary, so making him Son of Man. Jesus was tempted just like us because of this. But Jesus was not just a great man, he was the Son of the Most High God, and was perfect. (Luke 1:30-31, John 3:18.See also God, Jesus and the Crucifixion, and The Trinity)
Man is mortal, having no existence when dead. (Psalm 6:5, Isaiah 38:18, Acts 2:29,34)
By living a sinless life, ending with his sacrificial death by crucifixion, Jesus has opened the way of salvation from death. (Hebrews 4:15, 1 Corinthians 5:7, 1 Corinthians15: 20-23, Galatians 3:27-29)
Belief and baptism are essential steps to salvation. (Mark 16:16. See also Baptism and Salvation.)
God raised Jesus from death. Jesus is currently in Heaven, on God’s right hand. He will one day return. (Acts 10:40, Romans 8:34, Acts 1:11)
When Jesus returns, he will raise his “sleeping” followers from death and grant immortality to the faithful who have tried to live by God’s precepts. (1 Corinthians 15:20-22)
His followers will help him to rule, bringing justice, righteousness and peace to the whole world - the Kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 15:23-26)
 
Bill_Pick said:
This is what they believe ,you tell me if it is a cult

What Christadelphians Believe
The Christadelphians, “Brothers and Sisters in Christ”, are a body of Bible believing people, who aim to live by faith in Jesus Christ, according to the teaching of his followers from the first century AD, finding their instruction in a wholly inspired Bible. Central to Christadelphian belief is that Christ will one day return to the Earth to establish the Kingdom of God and grant eternal life to his people - those who have tried to follow him and God.

What Christadelphians Believe gives an introduction to each of the key areas of Christadelphian belief. Although you may disagree with some of the points made here you will see that all Christadelphian beliefs are firmly rooted in the Bible.

The fundamental Christadelphian beliefs are:

The Bible is God’s word and the only message from him. It is without error, except for copying and translation errors. (2 Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 1:1. See also: The Bible, Why I Believe the Bible, and Alleged Biblical Errors.)
There is only one God - the Father. The Holy Spirit is God’s power. (John 17:3, Luke 1:35, Deuteronomy 6:4. See also God, Jesus and the Crucifixion, and The Trinity.)
Jesus is the Son of God, and also the son of a human being, his mother Mary, so making him Son of Man. Jesus was tempted just like us because of this. But Jesus was not just a great man, he was the Son of the Most High God, and was perfect. (Luke 1:30-31, John 3:18.See also God, Jesus and the Crucifixion, and The Trinity)
Man is mortal, having no existence when dead. (Psalm 6:5, Isaiah 38:18, Acts 2:29,34)
By living a sinless life, ending with his sacrificial death by crucifixion, Jesus has opened the way of salvation from death. (Hebrews 4:15, 1 Corinthians 5:7, 1 Corinthians15: 20-23, Galatians 3:27-29)
Belief and baptism are essential steps to salvation. (Mark 16:16. See also Baptism and Salvation.)
God raised Jesus from death. Jesus is currently in Heaven, on God’s right hand. He will one day return. (Acts 10:40, Romans 8:34, Acts 1:11)
When Jesus returns, he will raise his “sleeping” followers from death and grant immortality to the faithful who have tried to live by God’s precepts. (1 Corinthians 15:20-22)
His followers will help him to rule, bringing justice, righteousness and peace to the whole world - the Kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 15:23-26)
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I’m a little confused. I thought Mosacked is arguing that Mary is not the Mother of Jesus-that she is only a surrogate. Does that fit the Christadelphian beliefs?
 
Anna_Scott said:
I’m a little confused. I thought Mosacked is arguing that Mary is not the Mother of Jesus-that she is only a surrogate. Does that fit the Christadelphian beliefs?
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No. The Christadelphians accept that she is the mother of Jesus, but NOT the Mother of God. This they deny. I think they deny it only because they do not understand the definition.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Javl said:
No. The Christadelphians accept that she is the mother of Jesus, but NOT the Mother of God. This they deny. I think they deny it only because they do not understand the definition.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
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I think that they deny the Divinity of Christ.

Mosacked seems to be having trouble with the idea that Jesus had a True Human Nature. He sees flesh as having sin. Since Christ had no sin, he could not have had flesh from his mother. Basically, Jesus was created in Mary as Adam was created in Eden.
 
ralphinal said:
I think that they deny the Divinity of Christ.

Mosacked seems to be having trouble with the idea that Jesus had a True Human Nature. He sees flesh as having sin. Since Christ had no sin, he could not have had flesh from his mother. Basically, Jesus was created in Mary as Adam was created in Eden.
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Ralph,

I do not deny the divinity of Christ.

But I deny the divinity of Mary, and I deny that she is the mother of God.

Its just that simple. And I do not have a trouble with Jesus having a True Human Nature.

.
 
Mosacked said:
Ralph,

I do not deny the divinity of Christ.

But I deny the divinity of Mary, and I deny that she is the mother of God.

Its just that simple. And I do not have a trouble with Jesus having a True Human Nature.

.
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Catholics deny the divinity of Mary, too. 🤷

If she’s not the mother of God, then Jesus is not God, either. It’s that simple.
 
wanner47 said:
Catholics deny the divinity of Mary, too. 🤷

If she’s not the mother of God, then Jesus is not God, either. It’s that simple.
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By calling her the mother of God, you claim her divinity. It’s that simple.

Like I already said, just because I put a human foetus into a chimpanzee to perform a lab test doesn’t make that chimp the mother of humans.

GOD IS A SPIRIT. Jesus is God because of the Spirit in Him. The conception of Jesus was the work of the Holy Ghost. If Mary had a part in it, she would have been stoned for adultery.

.
 
The point is, Mary was merely a humble vessel used by God, and who called herself a SLAVE of God who requires the same salvation grace from God that everyone else requires. The ONLY way to reach God is JESUS, and the ONLY way to know JESUS is through the promised counselor - the Holy Ghost.

NOT Mary
NOT the Pope
NOT your teachers.

.
 
Mosacked said:
The point is, Mary was merely a humble vessel used by God, and who called herself a SLAVE of God who requires the same salvation grace from God that everyone else requires. The ONLY way to reach God is JESUS, and the ONLY way to know JESUS is through the promised counselor - the Holy Ghost.

NOT Mary
NOT the Pope
NOT your teachers.

.
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Let me make this simple for you. THIS is what we believe. We believe Mary is the MOTHER OF GOD in the sense that she carried in her womb a DIVINE PERSON. JESUS CHRIST GOD IN THE FLESH. 2 JOHN 7, JOHN 1;14

There is no easier way to explain it! Again as usual your problem is with the Trinity.
 
Mosacked said:
By calling her the mother of God, you claim her divinity. It’s that simple.

Like I already said, just because I put a human foetus into a chimpanzee to perform a lab test doesn’t make that chimp the mother of humans.

GOD IS A SPIRIT. Jesus is God because of the Spirit in Him. The conception of Jesus was the work of the Holy Ghost. If Mary had a part in it, she would have been stoned for adultery.

.
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Mary was fully human, not divine. God used the Immaculate Conception to make her a pure, perfect mother for His Son. Notice that in Scripture, the Angel Gabriel tells Mary that she will CONCEIVE, not just bear, a son. How could Mary conceive Jesus if she was nothing more than his carrier? Elizabeth also calls her the “mother of my Lord.” Why would she say this if it were not true?

Why do you believe Mary must be divine to be the mother of God?

You’re right, Mary could have been stoned for adultery. That’s why Joseph was planning to quietly divorce her before the angel told him not to.
 
Mosacked said:
The point is, Mary was merely a humble vessel used by God, and who called herself a SLAVE of God who requires the same salvation grace from God that everyone else requires. The ONLY way to reach God is JESUS, and the ONLY way to know JESUS is through the promised counselor - the Holy Ghost.

NOT Mary
NOT the Pope
NOT your teachers.

.
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Why get the Pope in to your mess.
 
If I may interject. Your usage of the word slave was rather astonishing to me. You may refuse to call Mary a slave if you wish. She did however not go as far as to claim that. On the contrary…
I usually do not use modern translations and I hope that you can forgive this lapsus. It’s just that I consider this translation in this specific point to be well done:

Luke 1:38 (NASB)
And Mary said, “Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.”

The word actually used is to be translated “slave”, more specifically “female slave” (as the English language lacks gender specifications in most cases).
The word that is used is precisely this one: δούλη
“εἶπεν δὲ Μαριάμ Ἰδού, ἡ δούλη κυρίου· γένοιτό μοι κατὰ τὸ ῥῆμά σου”
(There are quite a few ambiguous terms that may mean servant. “δοῦλος” and all words that stem from this word is not one of these.)
It is not ambiguous… Mary called herself a slave of the Lord and more than one Greek Translation agree on this… actually all that I found agree on this… Just that the translators seem to be reluctant to call Mary or any of us slaves.

May our Lord, Saviour and Master Jesus Christ be with you.

In Him,
Janet
 
No offense I hope, just trying to make Catholics ‘see’ how some of us think.
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1 – If the Sacraments themselves can save, doesn’t that mean that if a deviously evil man were to also partake of the Holy Communion, he would join you in your heaven? (please don’t reply and say he wouldn’t attend because even the evil Pharisees went for baptism at the Jordan river)
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Mosack, If a protestant must be baptized (a sacrament - outward sign of an inward grace) - to have eternal life, "doesn’t that mean that if a deviously evil man were also to [be baptized in your church] - he would join you in your heaven?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
2 – If Mary was the mother of God, just because she gave birth to Jesus who is God, doesn’t that mean that if you put the foetus of humans into the body of a monkey, then that monkey would be the mother of humans? (no offense, but it’s the closest analogy I can think of).
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All protestants agree that the blessed mother Mary was/is the mother of God (theotokos, meaning God bearer or Mother of God"). If Jesus is your brother, as per sacred scripture, and Mary is the mother of your brother, Jesus, then Mary is also your mother, spiritually speaking.
3 – If the Catholic church is above scripture like what some people here say to explain why they do not follow certain scriptural teachings, wouldn’t that be refuting what God taught? So, is God the master or the disciple?
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Show me in the on-line Catechism of the CC where it states that The CC is above scripture?

85…This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.” CCC

The CC is the servant and rightful interpreter of scripture, or perhaps your church leaders or you personally, carried along by the holy spirit, (2 Peter 1:21) - are the rightful interpreter of scripture? Is that the case?

Let’s assume that the following passages were not said to the CC, which, no doubt, is what you already believe, anyway.Which church in the world today is comprised of men who spoke/speak from God as they were/are carried along by the Holy Spirit?

Which church in the world today, was there on the day of Pentecost when a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting, and saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them, and were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them?

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

*When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them. *
 
Mosacked said:
By calling her the mother of God, you claim her divinity. It’s that simple.

Like I already said, just because I put a human foetus into a chimpanzee to perform a lab test doesn’t make that chimp the mother of humans.

GOD IS A SPIRIT. Jesus is God because of the Spirit in Him. The conception of Jesus was the work of the Holy Ghost. If Mary had a part in it, she would have been stoned for adultery.

.
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Can you please clarify something re: the bolded part? Are you implying that Jesus was not at all human? A human placed in a chimpanzee, to use your analogy, would not ever become a chimpanzee. By analogy, anything not already human placed in a human womb would never be human. I have nothing to add to others’ responses, but I would like you to clarify your position, and then I will go quietly back to reading this thread.
 
Mosacked said:
By calling her the mother of God, you claim her divinity. It’s that simple.

So, calling Mary the mother of God is the same as calling Mary, God? So silly! :confused:
Like I already said, just because I put a human foetus into a chimpanzee to perform a lab test doesn’t make that chimp the mother of humans.
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wanner47 said:
Mary was fully human, not divine. God used the Immaculate Conception to make her a pure, perfect mother for His Son. Notice that in Scripture, the Angel Gabriel tells Mary that she will CONCEIVE, not just bear, a son. How could Mary conceive Jesus if she was nothing more than his carrier? Elizabeth also calls her the “mother of my Lord.” Why would she say this if it were not true?

Why do you believe Mary must be divine to be the mother of God?

You’re right, Mary could have been stoned for adultery. That’s why Joseph was planning to quietly divorce her before the angel told him not to.
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Here is another point to consider. Now think about it Mary at the moment of her conception choose to give herself to God. Now The angel said you will conceive a child. Now if someone told me that, I would think great when I get married I will conceive a Child from my husband. But Mary KNEW what was asked of her and . Why else would she answer but I have not been with a man. Mary knew that she was going to remain true to God. So she knew by her promise she would never have relations with ANY Man. Back to another way we know that Mary was promised to God and God only. If not she would have assumed the Angel meant that when she was married she would do it the natural way with a Man!
 
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