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Bill_Pick
Guest
Do Muslim go to hellIn the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif
Thanks
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distracted
Guest
frankly, my experiences tell me that maybe more Catholics end up there than non-Catholics… (maybe!)
i know that sounds awful but it seems to me that Catholics, generally speaking, have this tendency to… complicate things more than necessary… Long story what all i mean… but
well, Jesus’ words in this one matter are very clear: he says to Love God and love our neighbors as ourselves…
true, not many Protestants do this very well either… and now that i think about it, Catholics ARE more charitable/caring than Protestants…(i speak of the ones i know…).
I guess i don’t hang around many protestants … forgot how they can be… (don’t believe in expiating sins so… well, if they are “covered” why should they bother being… say Scrupulous…
… but in any case, all i can really do is speak for myself and i have found that i often complicate Christianity… instead of just picking up the cross and carrying it and letting all those things i worry about… well, go to God…
in any case, there are a lot of bad Catholics around…
@ least 54% anyhow…
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ralphinal
Guest
Yes, but he could clue us in now and then.hmmm… i think God is testing me by giving me priests who… well… let’s just say they are focused on other things…
more important things??
God knows…
I am blessed with clergy who preach confession and the Real Presence.
And with EWTN right down the road, all is good.
P
PJM
Guest
And that was what, a thousand years ago?I read that in the Past , certificates to ensure people about going to heaven were sold by Popes ? If Church does not send people to hell , why the sale of ticket to heaven ??
Friend you assume that because Popes too are human, and yes their have been a few
that have not lived what they preached, that somehow that distorts our claim of being: One, Holy, Catholic and Apolostolic.
**
It does no such thing.** The Church is Holy because She is Founded by Jesus Himself, and our Blessed Lord gives personal assurance of Her (His Church) ever-lasting Holiness.
Having said this, not one of them EVER, make a offical Proclamation on matters of the Catholic faith (not its practice… doctrine and dogma) on either Our Faith or on Morals.
This assurance is due to the Merits of Christ Himself.
Sadly, not all Catholics live up to what She Teaches, and stands for!
Do all Muslims?
Love and prayers friend,
P
Peter_J
Guest
Good point, Deum_quaerens. I guess if we really want to be precise with our language, we shouldn’t speak of Orthodox and Protestants as being “outside of the Catholic Church”, but rather “not in full communion with the one unique subsistence of the Catholic Church”. (That is kind of a mouthful though, isn’t it?
)
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Deum_quaerens
Guest
Do you truly find that “not in full communion with the one unique subsistence of the Catholic Church” is more precise than “outside of the Catholic Church”? Sorry, but this “degrees of communion” language is a Conciliar innovation with no roots in Tradition, and one that only serves to blur the lines. Orthodox and Protestants are outside of the Church, and rather than refer to them as such, you would go with “not in full communion with the one unique subsistence of the Catholic Church”?Good point, Deum_quaerens. I guess if we really want to be precise with our language, we shouldn’t speak of Orthodox and Protestants as being “outside of the Catholic Church”, but rather “not in full communion with the one unique subsistence of the Catholic Church”. (That is kind of a mouthful though, isn’t it?
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KC91
Guest
Freemasonry, which funds and manipulates extreme Protestant sects in their ‘divide and conquer’ strategy against all forms of Christianity.
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happilycatholic
Guest
Hi Humble in doubt!there is no hell … so no one goes there. That’s the good news. The bad news is our only hope for eternal life is either a time machine or medical science.
I see you are former catholic. I’m sorry you are not practicing.
You know, being “nothing” is still a choice. Why not choose to be “something”. Why not choose your destiny in a positive way?
There is a hell and it is as spectacular as Heaven. It is more than you can imagine and for all eternity. Worst of all it is the total absence of God. You can’t know what that’s like because God is always with us. Even when we walk away from God, he’s still there with us. You’ve never known life without God.
As wonderful and beautiful as Heaven is, so hell is grievous and hideous.
The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit are with you even if you don’t acknowledge it.
Peace Be With You,
HC
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josie_L
Guest
Deum quaerens, I believe Protestants and Orthodox are refered to has separated bretheren not heretics. And this change I believe was affirmed at Vatican II. So, yes Peter is right in stating that they are part of the Church (spiritually) but not in full communion, that is, they do not adhere to the revealed truth she imparts (You should be able to find the answers in your CCC).Do you truly find that “not in full communion with the one unique subsistence of the Catholic Church” is more precise than “outside of the Catholic Church”? Sorry, but this “degrees of communion” language is a Conciliar innovation with no roots in Tradition, and one that only serves to blur the lines. Orthodox and Protestants are outside of the Church, and rather than refer to them as such, you would go with “not in full communion with the one unique subsistence of the Catholic Church”?
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Deum_quaerens
Guest
They are not part of the Church: schism (eg, Orthodoxy), heresy (eg, Protestantism) and apostasy are “such as of [their] own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church” (Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi).
As St Cyprian († 258) wrote: “There is one Church and one see, founded by the Lord’s voice on Peter. No other altar can be set up, no new priesthood made, except the one altar and one priesthood. Whoever gathers elsewhere scatters.”
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josie_L
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I am certain Deum quaerens that they are now refered to as separated bretheren. Why do you not refer to the CCC?
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chosen_people
Guest
Now after learning on this forum that as a Jew I am going to Hell (an interesting concept since the pagan based Catholic concept of Hell does not exist in monotheistic Judaism) I now discover that there is a chance we may continue these discussions in the afterlife
As for Fr Leonard Feeney, if spreading hate and lies about Jews and being a rabid anti-Semite guarantees you a place below he certainly earned it. I am enclosing for your reading pleasure
a link to Point magazine which he edited. I apologize for the website source but given the nature of the material it is certainly apt.aryanunion.org/point/index.html
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josie_L
Guest
Chosen people, Fr. Feeney divested himself of these views upon his return to the CC. So, he may have held these views at one point in time but it was before and during his excommunication.Now after learning on this forum that as a Jew I am going to Hell (an interesting concept since the pagan based Catholic concept of Hell does not exist in monotheistic Judaism) I now discover that there is a chance we may continue these discussions in the afterlife
As for Fr Leonard Feeney, if spreading hate and lies about Jews and being a rabid anti-Semite guarantees you a place below he certainly earned it. I am enclosing for your reading pleasure
aryanunion.org/point/index.html
As for the concept of Hell being pagan-based (and not practiced by Monotheistic Judaism). don’t know what you mean here? Can you define Gehanna for me, and what is the difference between Gehanna and Sheol?
And just for the record the CC does not state that Jews go to hell, you only have to read our cathechism to understand this.
P.S. We are monotheistic too!
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juliamajor
Guest
Catholics,Protestants, Jews, muslims,-mankind in general are all capable of going to hell.If you look at the "Last Judgment " in the Capella Sistina you’ll see a whole variety of folks in hell and a lot of them religious. That is an artistic expression by Michaelangelo( he put people he didn’t like in hell). That is sort of what people are doing here. Putting folks they don’t like in the netherworld. Thank goodness God is more expansive and doesn’t think like men! ( and I notice nobody ever thinks that they themselves are going there!).A great danger.
If Scripture shows us anything is that God is the final arbiter. What we think and believe can only go so far. God chooses who He chooses and the seemingly least worthy among us may get to heaven before folks who think they have an express ticket. In Job God gives a lecture on not limiting God and the folly of humans believing that somehow they can understand Him! How foolish. What happens to a human at the instant of death is unknown to us and between God and His Creation. To Step in place of God and to say with certainty that God will do such and such because I believe it ,is arrogance indeed.Jonah is a perfect example of a human thinking that he knows better and that God should stick"to the rules"God is beyond all the limitations we would put on Him-if he had limitations He wouldn’t be God. I think that it is a need in humans to think that they are superior to their neighbor- so they don’t really to be honest with themselves.A neat little trick that all humans indulge in.so political ,religious,cultural, ethnic identity, etc,becomes our hiding place for our lack of righteousness- we can get o so comfy thinking that we have it all sewn up if we are such and such, if we believe such and such, if we do such and such.When the truth is that is really not up to us, or what we think, or who we think we are( when in reality you can really be fooling yourself) but only up to God.
God is expansive as love is, not small and narrow like us-we shouldn’t need or want God to be like us.
If Scripture shows us anything is that God is the final arbiter. What we think and believe can only go so far. God chooses who He chooses and the seemingly least worthy among us may get to heaven before folks who think they have an express ticket. In Job God gives a lecture on not limiting God and the folly of humans believing that somehow they can understand Him! How foolish. What happens to a human at the instant of death is unknown to us and between God and His Creation. To Step in place of God and to say with certainty that God will do such and such because I believe it ,is arrogance indeed.Jonah is a perfect example of a human thinking that he knows better and that God should stick"to the rules"God is beyond all the limitations we would put on Him-if he had limitations He wouldn’t be God. I think that it is a need in humans to think that they are superior to their neighbor- so they don’t really to be honest with themselves.A neat little trick that all humans indulge in.so political ,religious,cultural, ethnic identity, etc,becomes our hiding place for our lack of righteousness- we can get o so comfy thinking that we have it all sewn up if we are such and such, if we believe such and such, if we do such and such.When the truth is that is really not up to us, or what we think, or who we think we are( when in reality you can really be fooling yourself) but only up to God.
God is expansive as love is, not small and narrow like us-we shouldn’t need or want God to be like us.
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PJM
Guest
**Great care is to be taken when sharing our RC Faith.
The above post is while “the singular TRUTH” is nevertheless VERY MISLEADING as it is worded.**
The Church Council if Florence took place in 1438 and 1439. Before the Protestant Revolutation of the very late 1500’s!
The Catecheism of the RCC teaches:
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."
All Catholic teaching on Matters of faith and or Morals, is, and shall always be the TRUTH.
That is not to prohibit The Church gaining a more full understanding.
The quoted POST ABOVE states “that all Salvation is through the catholic Church.”
Remove the “period” and you have today’s fuller understanding.
All Salvation is in some mysterious manner through the Catholic Church. One nedd not be a Catholic to be “saved!” However this not apply to those who have left the Catholic Church.
**Because Christ Founded OnLY One Church (The Catholic Church), Christ gave our Pope "**the key’s to the Kingdom of Heaven "(Mt. 16:19), threrfore all Salvation must be, and is through common Chrsitian Beliefs tied to the RCC!
Also as a FYI… the post above mine states "that the Catholic Church does not teach that 'Jews go th hell ’ "
The Jewish Nation and people are no more exempt from Hell and or Heaven, than are any other group. But clearly there are Jews who by their own life choices, send themselves to hell and others by wiser choices permit God to grant them eternal salvation.
Amen!
Love and prayers,
J
juliamajor
Guest
this is the sad result (in my humble opinion) of religious zealotry (and I say this with the utmost respect). Why would anyone charge another with being some sort of heretic for an intangible, unprovable, myth? Why would anyone hate another person because of a religion?
I could see if we were all illiterate members of some third world tribe with no access to information; but we’re modern westerners? I’m sorry if my views are offensive … but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the reasoning for this hatred (when it’s certainly not what Christ preached).
The Catholics will always say they are the only true church of Christ, which of course is a great insult to Protestants, who will counter than Catholics are quasi-pagan because they venerate Mary and Saints, use icons in worship, so on and so forth. Yet it seems to me this is acting contrary to Christ.
If you know its offensive to tell another person your church (which believes essentially the same thing as your opponents church) is better than their church, then why would you say it? Of course Catholics will say it’s their duty to tell the truth (and protestants will say the same sort of thing).
If Catholics were to say any person who has faith in Christ is chosen by your god (which is what your bible states); and protestants state the same thing … then it would seem that you’re all in the same body (the body of Christ). Yet this will never be good enough for you … what fun would it be if you had nothing to argue over right???
I mean … man I can’t really say what I think of this whole thing because I doubt I could phrase it in a respectful way. Suffice it to say it seems very childish to me & a big waste of time. I can behave myself without mythology (though it might be fun to read)???
This is why politicians should be atheists … you guys need people who are guided by reason and logic to moderate this sort of behavior
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Bill_Pick
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What is this thread about I was thinking it was about ,some thing about Cathloics going to hell…or did I miss the point of the question.
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happilycatholic
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Conversations evolve. It appears you missed the point of the post I as replying to.
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Soutane
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Please reread my post.
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Deum_quaerens
Guest
Here, how about I refer to the Catechism of Trent, which was the official catechism of the Catholic Church for more than four centuries?
“Heretics and schismatics are excluded from the Church, because they have separated from her and belong to her only as deserters belong to the army from which they have deserted.” (Creed, article IX)
As I have made clear, Fr Feeney did not upon reconciliation recant the exclusivist understanding of the dogma that there is no salvation outside of the Church, and his followers, in full communion with Rome, continue to preach it.
“In our discussions with the Congregation [for the Doctrine of the Faith] it seemed rather clear that proponents of a strict interpretation of the doctrine [that there is no salvation outside of the Church] should be given the same latitude for teaching and discussion as those who would hold more liberal views.” (Fr Lawrence A. Deery, Vicar for Canonical Affairs and Judicial Vicar of the Diocese of Worcester, 1988)
But our dogma does.
And? Protestants are heretics, ergo they are concerned by the statement.
But whereas the declaration made at the Council of Florence is infallible, the CCC is not.
Sorry, but that is false.
The dogmatic teaching of the Catholic Church, which flows from Scripture, is clear.
“If any one abide not in me,” said Our Lord (John xv, 6), “he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up, and cast him into the fire, and he burneth.” What is it to abide in Him? It is to belong to the Church (Colossians i, 24; Ephesians v, 23).
“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define [infallible declaration] that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam, 1302)
The Catholic Church “firmly believes, professes and preaches [infallible declaration] that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives” (Council of Florence, sess. XI, 1442).
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