Let us look at 2Sam12 v 13 again:
13 David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die.
You said:"]Yes, he does admit his sin"!
Richard, this is what is done at the sacrament of confession, admittance of guilt. When sins are orally accounted for to the priest, it is an admittance of guilt.
Even though the sacrament has not been instituted here, you can clearly see the forerunner of the sacrament.
And when Nathan says the absolution, there is another element of the sacrament, the absolution. There is the forerunner, the prophet Nathan, and today, the priest announces the words of absolution.
Nathan uses his little story to show David that he had sinned before
God. Verse 13 shows that the story works, David sees his sin and Nathan recognising that David gets it and has genuine repentance merely acknowledges that God accepts this repentance. As He would anyone who sincerely comes to Him.
Nope. As I showed you, Psalm 51 was written after David admits his sin to Nathan, after he had confessed and the absolution by Nathan. So David is not confessing in Psalm 51, he had already done that.
Let’s take a look at all of Psalm 51
Psalm 51
1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness:according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. 2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
If you read this Psalm and still hold to this statement “So David is not confessing in Psalm 51, he had already done that” To paraphrase Isaiah There is noone so blind as those who will not see. The whole point of the Psalm is confession. and a plea for mercy, not from Nathan, but from God.
No, Richard. The sacrifice is “8Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams…”. The OT prefigurement of Christ is the Lamb, as in the events of Passover. Christ has never been referred to as a bull or ram.
All of the animal burnt offerings were types for the sacrifice of Christ.
This just shows your misunderstanding of the sacrament of confession. It is still God forgiving the sins in the sacrament, but acts through the priest. It is similar to God’s command to Job, and what Nathan does when he absolves David. All are acting under God’s command. And it is as God wills it and we obey as He commands.
Actually pablope this shows your misunderstanding of your own “sacrament”
This from the seventh session of the Council of Trent cannon 11
CANON XI.-If any one saith, that, in ministers, when they effect, and confer the sacraments, there is not required the intention at least of doing what the Church does; let him be anathema.
According to the council of Trent in order for the sacrament of confession or any sacrament to be valid there must be the INTENTION OF THE MINISTER. So If the intention of the minister is not there it really doesn’t matter if he pronounces the absolution words the penitant is still in his sins. So apparently it isn’t Jesus who gives absolution in this Catholic rite but the priest.
You want me to call the pope holy father, but I won’t, it is not proper! There is no scripture giving man the authority to call anyone, let alone the pope a name reserved for our Heavenly Father. Jesus addresses God as such in John 17:11. And you don’t hear Jesus telling His disciples to call any one man Holy Father, because Jesus knows there is only one. If it were meant for us to address our pastors and leaders by that title, then we all would!
And I have been cursed and lambasted by catholic friends and co-workers before I joined this forum for not addressing the pope as holy father. No disrespect, he just isn’t that to me; he is the leader of the catholic church, so “sir,” would be an appropriate greeting!