Catholics have confession, what do Protestants have if they sin?

[JonNC]

You should ask protestants yourself! The difference is that protestant believers will say that they accept the ‘authority’ of the Bible as the all sufficient revelation of what is necessary for salvation and going to Christ directly without the intervention of a priest is unnecessary. Of course that may sound an over-simplification but there are marked differences in Catholic and Protestant theology

It should not need to be explained but surely the answer lies in the difference between Catholic and Protestant theology. The priest is a stumbling block to gaining direct access to Christ so they rely and protested historically on the ‘authority’ of the Bible itself. So, they appeal to the mercy and forgiveness of God from Holy Scripture, and they can make a good case for it. In other words, the Bible gives its own assurance. Here are some examples, which should also be consoling to Catholics!

God Bless You
Winstone - London

Hi Winstone. God’s blessing with you also.

Just narrowing the “protestant” brush stroke, here.
This, from the Apology of the Augsburg Confession.

2] For we also retain confession, especially on account of the absolution, as being the word of God which, by divine authority, the power of the keys pronounces upon individuals. 3] Therefore it would be wicked to remove private absolution from the Church. 4] Neither do they understand what the remission of sins or the power of the keys is, if there are any who despise private absolution. 5] But in reference to the enumeration of offenses in confession, we have said above that we hold that it is not 6] necessary by divine right. For the objection, made by some, that a judge ought to investigate a case before he pronounces upon it, pertains in no way to this subject; because the ministry of absolution is favor or grace, it is not a legal process, or law. [For God is the Judge, who has committed to the apostles, not the office of judges, but the administration of grace, namely, to acquit those who desire, etc.] Therefore ministers in the Church have the command to remit sin; they have not the command to investigate secret 8] sins. And indeed, they absolve from those that we do not remember; for which reason absolution, which is the voice of the Gospel remitting sins and consoling consciences, does not require judicial examination.

Jon

 

[Nicea325]

Hi Winstone. God’s blessing with you also.

Just narrowing the “protestant” brush stroke, here.
This, from the Apology of the Augsburg Confession.

Jon

Blessings Jon my brother in Christ. How are you? Hope you and your loved ones are doing well? May the graces of God protect you.

God Bless

 

[Brywan]

Back in the day when I was an evangelical Christian—

I believed that confessing my sins privately to God was enough and that if I had wronged someone, I needed to make restitution if necessary–(but how much restitution is necessary?) I remember a little exercise I was taught to do–write out all your sins (to God) and then write I John 1:9 across the list “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Then I tore up the list. I was taught to believe that all my sins–past, present, future are already forgiven because of Christ’s death on the cross–“confessing” meant “to agree with God”
–to agree with God that I had sinned and to agree that my sins were already forgiven…

 

[1beleevr]

One more TIME:

The priest is merely **an instrument **of GOD. As an analogy, think of GOD as the Supreme Healer, the Master Surgeon. He will remove the cancer of sin from the soul, while using one of His priests as the scalpel.Hhhmmmmmmmmm!

H-m-m-m-m-m-m-! I don’t believe He needs priests to be His scalpel; He has always been quite capable of performing exceptional surgery!

 

[1beleevr]

Hello Boys - can I get into the act: Whether a man uses the services of a priest according to his tradition or a man goes to God direct through Christ Jesus according to his belief in scripture (both being in good faith), couldn’t possibly the merits of the Cross apply to both? To me it’s a question of the individual’s faith which determined him to seek forgiveness, and the desire to verbalise it to God via a priest or to God via Jesus Christ, according to that persons tradition or understanding of the subject of confession and repentance. Love ya! Winstone - London

This is actually a very good post! I like how you address both “sides”, and mention one’s faith, as the driving force behind seeking confession and forgiveness!

 

[1beleevr]

One more TIME:

The priest is merely **an instrument **of GOD. As an analogy, think of GOD as the Supreme Healer, the Master Surgeon. He will remove the cancer of sin from the soul, while using one of His priests as the scalpel.Hhhmmmmmmmmm!

If you think about it, we are ALL instruments of God, sharing our faith and the Good News of the Gospel! Matthew 28:19-20:thumbsup:

 

[1beleevr]

Yes. And I disagree with you in what you call Christlike. Our priests have the power to forgive sins in Jesus’ name, according to the Great Commission. Therefore, doing what the apostles started, seems to be pretty Christlike.

As for tangible vs. ingangible. Yes, it is exclusive. Those who receive the true Sacrament of Confession through the priest receive a tangible grace from God. THose who don’t must trust an intangible “feeling.”

Yours is as intangible as ours! You see, you cannot cite an example of the Apostles forgiving sin in the Bible, nor can you tell me how you know you are forgiven!

 

[1beleevr]

They don’t receive forgiveness - at least not with any certainty. Protestants believe that they’re already saved; but, in that context, prayer doesn’t even make sense. They argue otherwise, of course (though I’m not even sure what or why they’d confess anything in prayer, since they believe in faith-alone salvation). Also, as everyone agrees: Protestants can and do sin; all of them. So how on earth are they “already saved”? Nothing impure will enter into heaven! We require God’s forgiveness for every sin we commit, and forgiveness can only be given (with certainty) through the Church Jesus Christ established on earth. Prayer “outside” the Church can so easily be to a false idol - that was my regular past experience, and one of the reasons why there’s so much division between Protestant denominations. Forget Paul’s teaching of being of “one mind” in Protestantism; just expect to be complacent in thought and action, and conceited in attitude as to being one of God’s “elect”. In a word: No forgiveness for Protestants, because they don’t require it since they hold to sola fide; and even if they felt they did need to confess, who exactly are they praying to? Luther’s god? Their own imaginary idol?

And some of us believe that salvation is a life long process; a journey though this dark world. We believe that accepting Christ as our Saviour, and giving our lives to Him, is just the beginning! And, surprise, catholics sin too; otherwise they wouldn’t have to go to confession weekly! And I can’t speak for all noncatholics, but I pray and confess to the One True God, through Jesus, my Lord and King!

 

[pablope]

Yours is as intangible as ours! You see, you cannot cite an example of the Apostles forgiving sin in the Bible, nor can you tell me how you know you are forgiven!

I have already cited the example of Job and David to you. Especially David’s example, which contains oral admission and absolution and penance.

Well, then how do you know you are forgiven? Do you pronounce absolution to yourself?

And the further question…is pronouncing absolution to yourself Biblical? Is this what God wanted? Or is it what you believe it should be versus what Jesus instituted?

Why not enlighten us with your infallible determination of how Jesus instituted confession?

 

[1beleevr]

I have already cited the example of Job and David to you. Especially David’s example, which contains oral admission and absolution and penance.

Well, then how do you know you are forgiven? Do you pronounce absolution to yourself?

And the further question…is pronouncing absolution to yourself Biblical? Is this what God wanted? Or is it what you believe it should be versus what Jesus instituted?

Why not enlighten us with your infallible determination of how Jesus instituted confession?

My, aren’t we charitable?(not)! But, you have cherry picked just a few examples; David wasn’t always with Nathan when he cried out to the Lord, now was he? And believe you know, there is a profound difference in your life, it is very humbling! So, how do catholics know they are forgiven?

 

[pablope]

My, aren’t we charitable?(not)!

Uncharitable? Where am I uncharitable with my questions to you? Or they are uncharitable because you do not want to answer them?

But, you have cherry picked just a few examples;

 

[PastorVW]

Wow this is a VERY long thread. Almost like we all are sinners

As an ordained minister in a Wesleyan denomination - who has a deep respect for my Catholic brothers and sisters - I thought I would put my own two cents in.

What do we have? First, the assurance of the Word *“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9 (NIV) * Secord we have the assurance of the Spirit. I hope that Catholics would also have these assurances.

That said, we Evangelicals need to recognize that the Word tells us:* “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” James 5:16 NIV *Furthermore, there are times when we need to hear someone we respect in Christ reassure us that we are indeed forgiven. I do not know of a single Evangelical Pastor who has not had a member of his congregation come to him (or sometimes her - but that’s a whole other topic) in confession. When that happens, and we are as sure as we can be of the believer’s sincerity, we provide assurance of forgiveness based on the promises of God’s word. I would almost always pray with the person. Sometimes I would help them see that acts of repentance and restitution were needed - but most of the time, they knew what they need to do. They just needed to hear from another believer that they were forgiven.

So there it is. IMHO we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. While I do not see confession as a Sacrament, or even something limited to the ordained, I do see it as a Biblical command and ministry. As uncomfortable as we might be about “looking Catholic”, the Holy Spirit doesn’t let us off the hook

 

[PJM]

=LemonAndLime;7924058]This may be a simple question but it’s puzzled me recently.

If I was to commit a serious sin, I can go to confession to seek, and receive, forgiveness. But what do Protestants do in such an occasion, if anything at all? How can they be assured of God’s forgiveness for their sins?

Note - I’m not specifically looking for answers from Protestants themselves, but that would be interesting.

WELCOME HOME!’’

The most common thing I hear is “to recite the sinners prayer” an INNOVATION caused by broadcast medias limited time constraints. IT has NO effect at all. And certainly should not permit anyone to feel secure in the forgiveness of sin.

PROTESTANTS who HAVE NO OPPORTUNITY to know the truth; WHICH excludes all on this Forum; can make a PERFECT act of contrition; BEGGING God’s mercy and that combined with SINCERE contrition, with a firm desire to NOT sin in the same manner again; MIGHT be acceptable to God.?

The thing is ; it MUST BE “perfect”. And one can never know with certainity that it is

That friends is why Christ Himself instituted the Catholic Sacrament of Confession… the only way to know for certain one’s sins ARE forgiven.

This sacrament is a completation of OT practice of God using priest and is now Perfected because it provides GRACE.

John 20:19-23.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Winstone]

But wasn’t the majority of that money going to repairing and building churches? That wouldn’t be a bad thing; money for a holy cause would be a good work based on good will, yes? And, even if it were for selfish causes, no one said that there aren’t bad people within the Church; everyone knows that Alexander VI was a bad pope, for example… but that doesn’t mean the Living Church itself is bad. Know what I mean?

No, I don’t know what you mean. The ‘‘sale’’ of indulgences in the history of the Catholic church has been a blight on the Church - the Roman Catholic Church - for centuries. Gathering time off purgatory. How can you justify the erection of monuments to man’s glory and not God’s when the ‘‘living stones’’ of the temple, Christ’s Church was being and has been neglected. One human being is worth more than all of the great temples built by man. The Shepherd would leave the 99 and seek out the 1. The author of ‘‘The Prophet’’ Kahlil Gibran couldn’t have put it more succinctly:

‘‘Oh Jesus, they have built these churches for the sake of their own glory, and embellished them with silk and melted gold. . . . They left the bodies of Thy chosen poor wrapped in tattered raiment in the cold night. . . . They filled the sky with the smoke of burning candles and incense and left the bodies of Thy faithful worshipers empty of bread. . . . They raised their voices with hymns of praise, but deafened themselves to the cry and moan of the widows and orphans. Come again, Oh Living Jesus, and drive the vendors of Thy faith from Thy sacred temple, for they have turned it into a dark cave where vipers of hypocrisy and falsehood crawl and abound.’’

Kahlil Gibran (1883 - 1931)

No, as I understand it: Romans 7:14-25 is about being in a state of mortal sin. When we confess, we’re absolved from mortal sin by Jesus Christ. Also, consider 1 John 1:8-10 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Agreed: Protestants would agree totally with that by just appealing to John 3 - 16.

This makes no sense from a Protestant point of view; this is not simply a one-time act (as some say, quoting Romans 10:9 out of context), because there isn’t a single person on earth who has ceased from all sinning. No one is just “saved” once and for all.

Disagree: " In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." Ephesians 1:13-14

There is no need to ask God to save us every time we sin. This would be like saying He did not do it the first time. Salvation comes by confessing Christ. We accept by faith that He did and we know He did because we now have the Spirit of God living in us. We know this because we begin to see our sin and the need to weed behaviors and attitudes from our lives. This is known as the sanctification process.

You are muddling Salvation with the process of sanctification brother.

I didn’t mean to offend anyone (and if I did, I apologize), but it’s probably inevitable in theological debates. I only recently left Protestantism for the Catholic Church (actually, a return-to); which has opened my eyes and my heart. It’s answered many spiritual and intellectual issues for me, and, for the first time in memory (and most importantly of all) has allowed me to actually feel the presence of the Holy Spirit. So yes: naturally, I am going to warn against what I believe are the false promises of my former “faith”. But ridicule? I hope I’m not doing that. Likewise, you’re free to counter any of my statements at any time.

You didn’t offend me and it is wonderful that you have returned to the Catholic Faith but I do get peeved by the misrepresentation of our ‘‘separated brethren’’ just as I do when our ‘‘separated brethren’’ misrepresent the Catholic Church. You speak the way you do concerning ‘‘false promises’’ because you have changed your position from a theological perspective and have your conviction of the truth of our Faith based on the Majesterium of the Church and the infallibility of the pope. Protestants do not share this position and can give a good argument for their position based on the Bible.

The flame of the Holy Spiriti fill your heart now and always. God Bless, Winstone - London

God bless you too.

 

[Nicea325]

H-m-m-m-m-m-m-! I don’t believe He needs priests to be His scalpel; He has always been quite capable of performing exceptional surgery!

1beleevrfFirst of all, by all means as your brother in Christ, I am not saying God has not or will not forgive you,if you do not confess to a priest. I am NO ONE to say such a thing. And yes, one is free to go directly to God even as Catholics. I just want to clarify that I am not trying to disrespect your faith or religious traditions. If I have then I owe you an apology.

Peace

 

[1beleevr]

1beleevr;7966105:

My, aren’t we charitable?(not)!

Uncharitable? Where am I uncharitable with my questions to you? Or they are uncharitable because you do not want to answer them?

cherry picked? As opposed to you cherry picking and stringing verses out of context?

As I pointed out to Richard, the examples have the elements of the sacrament of confession are are good examples as the sacrament’s forerunner.

You seemed to have ignored or have failed to gasp 2Sam12 v 13. David is absolved by Nathan. If you have not read the rest of the chapter, then you will see that God exacts a heavy penance from David-the death of his son from Bathseba. This is what David is crying about-that his son be spared. Not for forgiveness, he had already been absolved.

An



This question has not been answered to you? Just go from the very start of the thread. I forgot the post numbers, but it has been answered.

So how about it…how do you know you have been forgiven? Do you pronounce absolution to yourself?

And the further question…is pronouncing absolution to yourself Biblical? Is this what God wanted? Or is it what you believe it should be versus what Jesus instituted?

Why not enlighten us with your infallible determination of how Jesus instituted confession?

Knowing you’re forgiven, is not easy to put into words whereby the human brain can comprehend; but you know there is a change, undeniably! But I was wondering how catholics know they’re forgiven? Is by virtue of being catholic, do you feel euphoric, like I do, or what? Also, try to explain Psalms 32:5-6 to me, using your magical catholic lenses! And was David absolved of ALL of his sins through Nathan! Don’t you believe that Nathan just delivered God’s messages to David?

 

[pablope]

Why don’t you go through this thread and I hope it will help you understand what goes through in the sacrament, and ask questions if you still have:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=566815

I would also suggest a book…Lord Have Mercy by Scott Hahn if you want to dwell further. It examines the sacrament from the OT to the NT, how it was practiced by early Christianity to today.

Also, try to explain Psalms 32:5-6 to me, using your magical catholic lenses!

I may look at this later, time permitting. Suggestion, when you cite a passage, it would help if you post the passage too, especially if it is short.

And was David absolved of ALL of his sins through Nathan! Don’t you believe that Nathan just delivered God’s messages to David?

David confessed only one sin to Nathan-his sin with Bathseba, and this is the one that Nathan only absolved.

3 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” And Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has [a]taken away your sin; you shall not die.

Keep in mind, when God uses intermediaries always…Nathan being an instrument of God. God absolved David through Nathan, same as in the sacrament of confession, the same element as in the passage through Job.

I think you may want to know “Why”? I think the reason is answered in Scott Hahn’s book.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by DElias

Wouldn’t that mean as well that you could confess your sins to, say, me?

REPLY: [QUOT]E=PeterGStanley;

Yes I suppose I could but unfortunately everyone would know what my sins were because you could spread what I said to everybody - your not bound to a vow not to reveal to the world my sins - I prefer a priest who has taken a vow not to reveal what I have confessed.Also I am not confessing to the priest I am confessing my sins to god - the priest is a witness who also offers me absolution .

***My dear FRIENDS in Christ;

ALL PRIEST TAKE A VOW OF SLIENCE*

You’re BOTH have incomplete and proper understanding.

The Sacrament of Confession was Instituted by Christ Himself in person who as GOD expects EVERYONE to take advantage of it,

1. Christ using Preist as INTERCESSORS for the forgivreness of sins is NOT NEW. It dates BACK to the time of Moses and His brother [and his brothers son’s.[/COLOR]

**Lev.4: 26 **" so the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin, and he shall be forgiven. ** 35 ** and the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be forgiven".

**2 This pratice of using priest for forgiveness of sins is HIGHLY signifiant:

Because it points out that PRIEST are to continue to have an active role in the forgiveness of our sins

Iit points out that it IS going through a priest AND NOT going directly to God that is the manner demanded and APPROVED BY GOD.

1. This practice of using priest is completed and perfected in the New Testament COMMANDS of Jesus Christ [GOD himself].

Matt.16: 19 “I Jesus] will give have now given to you Peter and my CC] you the keys of the kingdom of heaven all and complete access to who get’s to heaven and what IS NECESSARY to do so] , and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” [Bind and loosing is not only forgivess of sins BUT ALSO COMPLETE, total and free Governance of My Church.]

John 20: 21-22 "Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you.***

As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." ***[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit”.

With these WORDS OF Jesus/ God; the very Powers and AUTHORITY of Jesus, BOTH God AND man are TRANSFURED to His CC!

John 20:23 " ***John.20

[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." *** ONLY, ONLY the CC has the God commanded powers to REMIT sins in and THROUGH GOD.

***The Role God has given and commanded the CC to have include:

1. Determine if the pentinent is SINCERLY sorry for the sins
2. Council them on how with GOD’S HELP avoid this sin in the future
3. Determine if the person has a “FIRM PURPOSE OF AMENDMENT” meaning willing to alter there life to avoid this sin in the future
4. If the Priest AND ONLY IF THE PRIEST finds sufficient “contrition [sorrow] and amendment” [desire NOT to sin again; then and only then [ABOUT 99% of the time] will the priest AUTHORIZE God [who WILL ONLY DO SO IF REQUESTED BY HIS PRIEST] actually forgive youe sins. If the priest grants absolution God in GRAVELY obligated to forgive your sisn. [Mt. 16:19; Jn.20:15-19]

---

***The idea that anyone can choose WITHOUT the MOST serious consequences to Ignore God’s WAy, Christ DIRECT COMMAND and either confess to one’s friend or to God directly is in DENIAL OF GOD AND WHAT GOD DEMANDS!

Be prepared to pay the consequences of such foolishiness.

Know that you’re putting your souls at GRAVE RISK.***

**FROM THE Catholic Catechism:
1484 **“Individual, integral confession and absolution remain the only ordinary way for the faithful to reconcile themselves with God and the Church, unless physical or moral impossibility excuses from this kind of confession.” There are profound reasons for this. Christ is at work in each of the sacraments. He personally addresses every sinner: “My son, your sins are forgiven.” He is the physician tending each one of the sick who need him to cure them.

1424 It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a “confession” - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.

***It is called the sacrament of forgiveness, since by the priest’s sacramental absolution God grants the penitent “pardon and peace.” ***

It is called the sacrament of Reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: “Be reconciled to God.” He who lives by God’s merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord’s call: "

1497 Individual and integral confession of grave sins followed by absolution remains the only ordinary means of reconciliation with God and with the Church.

**1486 **The forgiveness of sins committed after Baptism is conferred by a particular sacrament called the sacrament of conversion, confession, penance, or reconciliation.

1491 The sacrament of Penance is a whole consisting in three actions of the penitent and the priest’s absolution. The penitent’s acts are repentance, confession or disclosure of sins to the priest, and the intention to make reparation and do works of reparation.

For the SAKE of you’re POSSIBLE salvation; PLEASE take Christ at His WORDS seriously!**

 

[Mark_David]

How can you justify the erection of monuments to man’s glory and not God’s when the ‘‘living stones’’ of the temple, Christ’s Church was being and has been neglected.

Depends on what you mean by being “neglected”. The more holy churches that all peoples have access to, the better - it’s that simple. God gets all the glory - many Protestants would agree with that. When we acknowledge that, and come to his Temple, we share in that glory.

As for the invisible Church (believers in general) - yes, I’m sure the “Roman Catholic Church” has been thoroughly guilty of not providing enough food and shelter for people over the years (amongst other things). Nevertheless, as I stated before: That doesn’t mean that the Catholic Church itself (separated from the sins of individual men) is at fault. It is still Christ’s Church, the one He established here on earth - and nothing can change that. No institution is perfect, but only the Catholic Church was founded on and by Jesus Christ. Also simple to understand.

There is no need to ask God to save us every time we sin.

Then why does Ephesians 4:30 warn us: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God: whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption. Yes, we are “sealed”, but why the warning? Doesn’t sound like “eternal security” to me. 1 Corinthians 10:12 - Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. How can we ever be truly sure of our Salvation and our hearts without the Church (the Catholic Church) Christ established on earth?

This would be like saying He did not do it the first time. Salvation comes by confessing Christ.

Yes, He did it the first time - but salvation can be lost. How can a Protestant be sure that they’re saved to begin with? This is why Christ established His One Church on earth, to make us certain that we are saved, are being saved, and will be saved. Being a Protestant (at least for me) was a very lonely, unfruitful road. “Feeling” like you’re saved isn’t enough; it needs external assurance, and works.

 

[1beleevr]

I would also suggest a book…Lord Have Mercy by Scott Hahn if you want to dwell further. It examines the sacrament from the OT to the NT, how it was practiced by early Christianity to today.

I may look at this later, time permitting. Suggestion, when you cite a passage, it would help if you post the passage too, especially if it is short.

David confessed only one sin to Nathan-his sin with Bathseba, and this is the one that Nathan only absolved.

Keep in mind, when God uses intermediaries always…Nathan being an instrument of God. God absolved David through Nathan, same as in the sacrament of confession, the same element as in the passage through Job.

I think you may want to know “Why”? I think the reason is answered in Scott Hahn’s book.

The thing that makes your argument weak, is not enough examples of men or women of God in the Old Testament and New Testament, having their sins forgiven through another. You cited only two examples, both shaky at best! Do you have any about Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph?