Catholics in US overwhelmingly support homosexual unions [CWN]

[Rence]

Well, according to the Church’s own laws anyone baptized Catholic is Catholic. They might not be good Catholics but they’re still Catholic.

That’s true, and these people who were baptized Catholic as infants may not have chosen to be Catholic as adults. This would change the statistics dramatically. So while many practicing Catholics may complain about this poll, it’s the Catholic Church who institutes infant baptism and then obligates the person (who was not old enough to give consent) to be called Catholic…

Second, how far do we want to whittle down what is considered a “true” Catholic or acceptable enough to be called one. By the Church’s own laws simply being baptized Catholic is enough. And anyone who attends weekly is fulfilling their basic obligation as a Catholic. It might make people feel better to claim that poll results that don’t like aren’t “real” Cathoics, but we also need to face the facts that there are Catholics who meet all their obligations and still disagree with the Church on certain issues.

The fact that there is a very big difference between the Sacrament of marriage and a civil marriage must also be acknowledged. Civil marriages have absolutely nothing to do with the Sacrament of Marriage. This may be why so many Catholics disagree with the call to fight same-sex marriage: it has nothing to do with the Church, and has no impact on the Sacrament of Marriage at all. Those who get married civily and not within the Church have separated themselves from the Church, and it’s not for us to impose Catholic rules on them. You can’t force people to be Catholic or to comply with Church teachings. That’s something that people have to choose to do on their own.

And besides that, you can disagree with the Church on certain issues, but you have to follow them. What I mean is, you cannot get married to a same sex individual, or help someone to do so, while still being in communion with the Church. As a Catholic, you are required to marry in the Catholic Church or stay single (a chaste single person). But disagreeing with the teaching is not a sin in itself that will separate you from the Church.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Teaching the Faith is politics? oh! that is right, you said you are a liberal. you dont care about the faith being tought right?

Is that what you think? Do you think that only rightwingers can be orthodox Catholics? Do you think that I, my wife, and my children have not been properly catechized because our politics are liberal?

You are the one who brought politics into this discussion by mentioning liberals.

 

[rlg94086]

Actually you’d be surprised how many weekly (and even daily) mass attendees are in favor of gay marriage,.

Yes, it’s sad, but there are some very religious Catholics who are pro-choice (“personally pro-life”), pro-civil union, in favor of women in the priesthood, etc. They are in grave error, and I pray for them. I always hope that the clear teaching of the Church will eventually win them over.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Is that what you think? Do you think that only rightwingers can be orthodox Catholics? Do you think that I, my wife, and my children have not been properly catechized because our politics are liberal?

You are the one who brought politics into this discussion by mentioning liberals.

who is talking about politics? i didnt. you brough it up, not me.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

who is talking about politics? i didnt. you brough it up, not me.

I quote from your post: “until the bishops get the hint that they must teach Catholics the faith, we will continue to be put to shame by those liberals all around the world.”

Sorry, you were the one who brought up liberals.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I quote from your post: “until the bishops get the hint that they must teach Catholics the faith, we will continue to be put to shame by those liberals all around the world.”

Sorry, you were the one who brought up liberals.

I am talking about the liberals in teh Church and not some politicians.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I am talking about the liberals in teh Church and not some politicians.

It’s not conservative versus liberal - it’s heterodox versus orthodox. We must all be orthodox Catholics, and you should have said that you meant heterodox Catholics, who don’t follow all the Church teaches. Liberal or conservative have nothing to do with it.

 

[baylee]

The fact that there is a very big difference between the Sacrament of marriage and a civil marriage must also be acknowledged. Civil marriages have absolutely nothing to do with the Sacrament of Marriage. This may be why so many Catholics disagree with the call to fight same-sex marriage: it has nothing to do with the Church, and has no impact on the Sacrament of Marriage at all. Those who get married civily and not within the Church have separated themselves from the Church, and it’s not for us to impose Catholic rules on them. You can’t force people to be Catholic or to comply with Church teachings. That’s something that people have to choose to do on their own.

Good points. I would venture to guess that most Catholics who “support” gay marriage (or at least are not anti-gay marriage) are focusing on civil marriage, not religious.

 

[rlg94086]

Good points. I would venture to guess that most Catholics who “support” gay marriage (or at least are not anti-gay marriage) are focusing on civil marriage, not religious.

It makes no difference. Church teaching is clear that both are wrong.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I don’t quite agree with Rence that civil marriage has no affect on Catholics. Marriage, broadly, as an institution, is affected, in terms of its definition, since even marriage between Catholics is recognized by the secular state. But leave that aside for the minute…

Believing passionately in the Constitution & Declaration, and the right of all our citizens to be free from harrassment and persecution, I, a Catholic, “overwhelmingly support” the right of homosexuals to live at peace with each other in amorous relationships, engage in whatever sexual practices they wish with other consenting adults, as that is part of the freedom of association guaranteed by our founding documents. It should be as much a crime to harrass or persecute them for this as it would be for them to do it to heterosexuals, whether those heterosexuals are married or not. I do not think being a patriotic American requires me to support same-sex civil marriage. I do not support it, nor does the Church support it.

OTOH, I hate the politics of divisiveness which calls some Catholics “true” and others “false.” Catholics may be falsely practicing, or they may be falsely understanding, but naturally NE Priest is correct: they are Catholic by their baptismal identity, and if they’re participating in sacramental life as adults, they are apparently choosing to continue to live that identity. That doesn’t mean that their support of some issue is not misguided, though.

 

[Big_Dummy]

The survey found that 14% of Tea Party participants are white Catholics, and another 4% are Latino Catholics-- a lower percentage total than the 22% of Americans who are Catholic.

maybe I am misunderstanding the survery, it is my impression they only asked catholics involved with the “tea party”, thus this would create a sampling error.

Also, I wonder how the questions were worded because that could create bias.

In short, I never put much stock in a survey without knowing all the details.

 

[Tigg]

Yes, it’s sad, but there are some very religious Catholics who are pro-choice (“personally pro-life”), pro-civil union, in favor of women in the priesthood, etc. They are in grave error, and I pray for them. I always hope that the clear teaching of the Church will eventually win them over.

I pray also for the clerics who are spreading error and moral relativism which is attempting to destroy the faith. (May God be especially, infinitely, merciful to them.)

 

[jackangelo1]

I won’t necessarily be surprised at the weekly Mass attendees…my stepmom goes weekly but doesn’t agree with all the Church teaches.

But the daily would suprise me. I’m a weekly and daily (as often as I can with my work schedule) attendee and I do not support homosexual marriage. It would be interesting to see who they polled and where…

T

 

[Tigg]

But disagreeing with the teaching is not a sin in itself that will separate you from the Church.

WARNING: Slippery slope here! Without getting into the levels of heresy, simply defined, heresy is a sin against the first commandment. As partially defined by St. Thomas, it is one way of deviating from Christianity “by restricting belief to certain points of Christ’s doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics.”

 

[jackangelo1]

Everyone should know that liberal Pollsters and Survy takers Never would ask loaded Questions to a Faithfull Catholic, instead they go to any one of the 96 Catholic Univerities that operate homosexual Clubs ( including Notre Dame). its been said that Catholics are not to smart about their Religion? I agree! A Catholic would be Pro-life, pro-traditional Marriage, anti-homosexuality, a shining example of what God wants? There is a group called Catholics United , which are for abotion,for same-sexmarriage, for women priests,for letting priests marry? these are actually non-0catholic.

 

[estesbob]

Catholics form a relatively low percentage of participants the Tea Party movement, have similar views to most Americans on abortion, and overwhelmingly support the legal recognition of …

More…

Given over 50% of “Catholic” voted for Obama this should not surprise anyone

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Given over 50% of “Catholic” voted for Obama this should not surprise anyone

The Church counts every baptized Catholic as a Catholic. So even a pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage Catholic is still a Catholic, without quotation marks.

 

[estesbob]

The Church counts every baptized Catholic as a Catholic. So even a pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage Catholic is still a Catholic, without quotation marks.

So? Methinks you protest too much.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The Church counts every baptized Catholic as a Catholic. So even a pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage Catholic is still a Catholic, without quotation marks.

They may be Catholics just like Jews are Jews, but that doesnt mean they are being pleasing to God. that is what matters the most. And we should be concerned for their souls. It is not what you want to believe, it is to follow all that the Church teaches and defends. If one is causing scandals the whole body suffers. It is not supposed to be this way. Because of the liberalism in the Church since the last Council, Catholics seem to believe that they can pick and choose and still be ok with the Church. There is not so.

 

[estesbob]

They may be Catholics just like Jews are Jews, but that doesnt mean they are being pleasing to God. that is what matters the most. And we should be concerned for their souls. It is not what you want to believe, it is to follow all that the Church teaches and defends. If one is causing scandals the whole body suffers. It is not supposed to be this way. Because of the liberalism in the Church since the last Council, Catholics seem to believe that they can pick and choose and still be ok with the Church. There is not so.

Catholics who follow the teachings of the Church do not support homosexual marriage and did not vote for Obama. I am always at a loss as to why “Catholics” who reject the teachings of the Church get upset when this is pointed out.