Catholics in US overwhelmingly support homosexual unions [CWN]

[larkin31]

nccbuscc.org/laity/marriage/samesexfaqs.shtml

true

but why did you skip the part on charity of spirit and making sure that one’s heart is not hardened toward gays? The topic here has been “compassion” concerning suicide.

Why will no Catholic here simply state overt compassion for these suicides? Why do you have to keep making this political or about gay marriage or anything other than the “compassion” which I am asking about?

Is there something about “compassion” that you are afraid of or incapable of?

 

[Elizabeth502]

The highest form of charity was just once again announced at today’s EWTN Daily Mass: guiding toward salvation those who have gone off-track.

Also (post 349), racial origins, physical challenges, and sexual expression are all different categories.

 

[rlg94086]

true

but why did you skip the part on charity of spirit and making sure that one’s heart is not hardened toward gays? The topic here has been “compassion” concerning suicide.

Why will no Catholic here simply state overt compassion for these suicides? Why do you have to keep making this political or about gay marriage or anything other than the “compassion” which I am asking about?

Is there something about “compassion” that you are afraid of or incapable of?

No…the topic is “Catholics in US overwhelmingly support homosexual unions.” I responded to StTommyMore’s post about submitting to the authority of the bishops by posting their statements regarding the topic of the thread.

I support Catholic teaching on the matter, including compassion for any sinner. You are asking a strange question, since supporting homosexual unions (topic of the thread) is not a sign of compassion. I have compassion for anyone dealing with a disordered desire and those who commit suicide.

 

[CMatt25]

true

but why did you skip the part on charity of spirit and making sure that one’s heart is not hardened toward gays? The topic here has been “compassion” concerning suicide.

Why will no Catholic here simply state overt compassion for these suicides? Why do you have to keep making this political or about gay marriage or anything other than the “compassion” which I am asking about?

Is there something about “compassion” that you are afraid of or incapable of?

Larkin, I haven’t followed this thread to date but if no Catholic here has simply stated it, as a Catholic according to Church teaching and a bishop, allow me to be the first.

As a believer in a Creator I say it shouldn’t be all that difficult to be capable of showing compassion towards God’s children, our fellow brothers and sisters born upon His earth.

Matt 7:12 and Luke 6:31.

But of course “compassion towards others as we desire compassion” encompasses many religions and is found among agnostics like yourself and atheists as well. Peace be with you Larkin.

 

[larkin31]

…I have compassion for anyone dealing with a disordered desire and those who commit suicide.

Thank you for answering the question. And for getting in some dogma, too.

 

[larkin31]

Larkin, I haven’t followed this thread to date but if no Catholic here has simply stated it, as a Catholic according to Church teaching and a bishop, allow me to be the first.

As a believer in a Creator I say it shouldn’t be all that difficult to be capable of showing compassion towards God’s children, our fellow brothers and sisters born upon His earth.

Matt 7:12 and Luke 6:31.

But of course “compassion towards others as we desire compassion” encompasses many religions and is found among agnostics like yourself and atheists as well. Peace be with you Larkin.

Peace to you, also. Thank you.

 

[larkin31]

Also to conclude my lecture… Those of you who wish to show compasion for homosexuals -don’t expect to gain an understanding from those who don’t.

We cannot impose our passions onto others.

Does God impose His will onto us? Of course not… etc, etc, etc.

rlg,

Here is what prompted me to ask all the questions about “compassion.” I fully know what the thread title is.

“Compassion” is a frequent Christian topic. I remember it spoken of in homilies many many times. seems relevant when talking about the suicides of ANY person, no? And perhaps especially of the young?

Despie only two Catholics here stating that they have compassion toward gay suicides, my sense is that many many other Catholics across the country would much more easily state this compassion, and indeed–according to the thread topic survey–also have much greater support of homosexual unions than is expressed here. The first is about charity of spirit; the latter is about politics and law. I understand being opposed to the latter; I DO NOT understand lacking the former.

 

[rlg94086]

rlg,

Here is what prompted me to ask all the questions about “compassion.” I fully know what the thread title is.

“Compassion” is a frequent Christian topic. I remember it spoken of in homilies many many times. seems relevant when talking about the suicides of ANY person, no? And perhaps especially of the young?

Despie only two Catholics here stating that they have compassion toward gay suicides, my sense is that many many other Catholics across the country would much more easily state this compassion, and indeed–according to the thread topic survey–also have much greater support of homosexual unions than is expressed here. The first is about charity of spirit; the latter is about politics and law. I understand being opposed to the latter; I DO NOT understand lacking the former.

And, that is what caused you to lash out at me? There was no reason for you to assume that I was skipping “the part on charity of spirit and making sure that one’s heart is not hardened toward gays” or that there is “something about “compassion” that * afraid of or incapable of.”

It makes no sense. I have a lot of compassion for people who struggle with disordered desires of all type, whether it be gambling, masturbation, alcohol, drugs, sex with minors or homosexuality. When someone has a overwhelming desire for sinful acts, it is not a simple thing to deal with. They need to be supported in their struggle.

The real problem is when people don’t struggle because everyone around them tells them that their disordered desire is completely okay. In fact, such an attitude by others is the least compassionate.*

 

[CMatt25]

Despie only two Catholics here stating that they have compassion toward gay suicides, my sense is that many many other Catholics across the country would much more easily state this compassion, and indeed–according to the thread topic survey–also have much greater support of homosexual unions than is expressed here.

Larkin, indeed you have good sense on this I think and according to the survey it indeed would appear so.

 

[rlg94086]

Larkin, indeed you have good sense on this I think and according to the survey it indeed would appear so.

The survey just shows that misplaced or false compassion (i.e. condoning/supporting disordered desire because they don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings) is rampant. It doesn’t show the amount of true compassion for the individual struggling with disordered desires.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The real problem is when people don’t struggle because everyone around them tells them that their disordered desire is completely okay. In fact, such an attitude by others is the least compassionate.

Bingo. And it’s an even worse problem when “those people around them” (saying it’s perfectly okay) are Catholic priests delivering homilies to that effect at Sunday Masses.

For the sake of charity towards all us sinners sitting in the pews, it’s important to make the appropriate distinctions explicit. To pretend something different, for the purposes of popularity within your parish or diocese, or because of social pressures exerted by the wider community, is not charity.

 

[larkin31]

The survey just shows that misplaced or false compassion (i.e. condoning/supporting disordered desire because they don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings) is rampant. It doesn’t show the amount of true compassion for the individual struggling with disordered desires.

Which part of compassion over gay teen suicide is “false”?

 

[larkin31]

And, that is what caused you to lash out at me? There was no reason for you to assume that I was skipping “the part on charity of spirit and making sure that one’s heart is not hardened toward gays” or that there is “something about “compassion” that * afraid of or incapable of.”…*

I asked you if you ignored it because you did not quote it nor even refer to it. Which you continue to neglect to do. What else am I supposed to think? That you have read and agree with it but just don’t feel like quoting it or referrring to it cuz, oh, I dunno, I can’t think of a logical reason…?..

 

[rlg94086]

Which part of compassion over gay teen suicide is “false”?

Where did I mention “gay teen suicide?”

 

[larkin31]

I am having trouble finding that letter.

Here is a different one, calling for “compassion” for those suffering with HIV/AIDS:

II. A Call to Compassion

1. Compassion and Human Dignity

Compassion is much more than sympathy. It involves an experience of intimacy by which one participates in another’s life. The Latin word misericordia expresses the basic idea: The compassionate person has a heart for those in misery. This is not simply the desire to be kind. The truly compassionate individual works at his or her own cost for the others’ real good, helping to rescue them from danger as well as alleviate their suffering.

1. The Ministry of Jesus

We learn compassion’s meaning from the model of Jesus. His ministry contains many examples. He gives sight to the blind (Matthew 20:30-34; Mark 10:46-52; Luke 18:35-43) and makes the crippled walk (Matthew 9:2-7; Mark 2:3-5; Luke 5:18-24); he touches and heals lepers (Matthew 8:3; Mark 1:41; Luke 5:13); he shares a meal with people considered legally impure (Matthew 26:6; 9:10; 11:11; Mark 2:15-16; Luke 5:30); he shames the judges of the adulterous woman and forgives her sin (John 8:1.10). With compassion, Jesus breaks through the barriers of sickness and sinfulness in order to encounter and heal the afflicted.

He tells us to do as he did, for “Whatever you did for the least brothers of mine, you did for me” (Matthew 25:40). We need to bear in mind his warning on this matter.

When the Son of Man comes in his glory . . . all nations will be assembled before him … Then he will say to those on his left, “Depart from me, you accursed … For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me … What you did not do for one of these least ones you did not do for me.” And these will go off to eternal punishment (Matthew 25:31-32, 41-46).

1. The Good Samaritan

The story of the Good Samaritan presents the call to compassion in concrete terms (Luke 10:30-37). Pope John Paul graphically demonstrated its meaning when in 1987 he embraced a young boy with AIDS at Mission Dolores Basilica in San Francisco. This was a way of saying that in each case AIDS has a human face, a unique personal history. The Holy Father verbalized that message on Christmas Day 1988, in his “Urbi et Orbi” blessing. “I think of them all, and to all of them I say, ‘Do not lose hope.’” And he added that those with AIDS are “called to face the challenge not only of their sickness but also the mistrust of a fearful society that instinctively turns away from them.” On May 4, 1989, he returned to this subject, declaring in a homily in Lusaka that the Church “proclaims a message of hope to those of you who suffer . . . to the sick and dying, especially those with AIDS and those who lack medical care.”(17)

In his apostolic letter On the Christian Meaning of Human Sufering (1984), (18) Pope John Paul calls each of us to imitate the Good Samaritan: “Man owes to suffering that unselfish love which stirs in his heart and actions. The person who is a ‘neighbor’ cannot indifferently pass by the suffering of another.” (19)

In his 1987 visit to Mission Dolores Basilica, Pope John Paul spoke of the meaning of compassion-again, in the specific context of AIDS.

[T]he love of God is so great that it goes beyond the limits of human language, beyond the grasp of artistic expression, beyond human understanding. And yet it is concretely embodied in God’s son, Jesus Christ, and in his Body the Church … God loves you all, without distinction, without limit. He loves those of you who are elderly, who feel the burden of the years. He loves those of you who are sick, those who are suffering from AIDS and from AIDS-Related Complex. He loves the relatives and friends of the sick and those who care for them. He loves us all with an unconditional and everlasting love.(20)

Persons with AIDS are not distant, unfamiliar people, the objects of our mingled pity and aversion. We must keep them present to our consciousness, as individuals and a community, and embrace them with unconditional love. The Gospel demands reverence for life in all circumstances. Compassion–love–toward persons infected with HIV is the only authentic gospel response.

this is from here: usccb.org/sdwp/international/ctoresp.shtml#2

I’ll keep looking for the other letter from the USCCB…

 

[larkin31]

Where did I mention “gay teen suicide?”

You did not. I just did. Do you have “compassion” for it, or not? I am simply following up the topic with a very specific case, trying to see where/when you you will simply be unequivocal. Maybe not in any suicide case? Not in the case of the boy jumping off the NY bridge? You don’t have to answer if you don’t feel like it.

 

[rlg94086]

I asked you if you ignored it because you did not quote it nor even refer to it. Which you continue to neglect to do. What else am I supposed to think? That you have read and agree with it but just don’t feel like quoting it or referrring to it cuz, oh, I dunno, I can’t think of a logical reason…?..

I’m “neglecting” to do it? What is wrong with you? Just because I didn’t quote everything the bishops have taught doesn’t mean I don’t agree with it. I didn’t know I had to quote it. Was there a post where you demanded I quote it?

 

[rlg94086]

You did not. I just did. Do you have “compassion” for it, or not? I am simply following up the topic with a very specific case, trying to see where/when you you will simply be unequivocal. Maybe not in any suicide case? Not in the case of the boy jumping off the NY bridge? You don’t have to answer if you don’t feel like it.

Of course I do…what would make you think I don’t?

Have you stopped beating your wife? You don’t have to answer if you don’t feel like it.

 

[larkin31]

Here it is: the beginning of the letter on Ministry to Homosexuals:

All people are created in the image and likeness of God and thus possess an innate human dignity that must be acknowledged and respected.1

In keeping with this conviction, the Church teaches that persons with a homosexual
inclination “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.”2 We recognize that these persons have been, and often continue to be, objects of scorn, hatred, and even violence in some sectors of our society. Sometimes this hatred is manifested clearly; other times, it is masked and gives rise to more disguised forms of hatred. “It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.”3

Those who would minister in the name of the Church must in no way contribute to such
injustice. They should prayerfully examine their own hearts in order to discern any thoughts or feelings that might stand in need of purification. Those who minister are also called to growth in holiness. In fact, the work of spreading the Good News involves an ever-increasing love for those to whom one is ministering by calling them to the truth of Jesus Christ.4

from here: usccb.org/doctrine/Ministry.pdf

That call to “compassion” and charity and love is pretty clear in both the Catholic statements I have quoted. None of this means that Catholics should consider homosexuality anything but a sin. No one here claims that these do. I am simply questioning the direct claims, under the guise of being Catholic, that “compassion” is not called for.

It clearly IS.

I imagine that the RCC also wants priests and laypersons to be compassionate toward the depressed and toward those contemplating suicide. Am I correct?

 

[larkin31]

Notice that even the word “accepted” is used.