Catholics in US overwhelmingly support homosexual unions [CWN]

[larkin31]

Correct. The pride is not in being homosexual though. It is in being human; made in the likeness of God. I’ve never understood identifying oneself by their sexual inclination, especially a disordered inclination. There are people whose trial is compulsive masturbation. They don’t choose to be compulsive masturbators, but that doesnt make their inclination or behavior something to celebrate. These people also have great talents and gifts, but you don’t see a lot of compulsive masturbator pride parades.

That’s because no one sees these as equivalents. Not even the RCC. Do you?

 

[CradleCath]

Correct. The pride is not in being homosexual though. It is in being human; made in the likeness of God. I’ve never understood identifying oneself by their sexual inclination, especially a disordered inclination. There are people whose trial is compulsive masturbation. They don’t choose to be compulsive masturbators, but that doesnt make their inclination or behavior something to celebrate. These people also have great talents and gifts, but you don’t see a lot of compulsive masturbator pride parades.

Nor do I see adulterers or thieves or any of our brothers & sisters in sin…marching to make me accept their sin as “normal, just different.”
Nor have I seen schools that encourage the acceptance of polygamy,
exhibitionism, sexual sadism, etc.

There was no hate in Laymen’s post, Carl, simply fatigue. Many of us are tired of having the agenda to call a sin against Natural Law…a normal act …shoved in our face.

There was a time when homosexual partners called their relationships… “The love that dare not speak its name.” Now, they will not be quiet for a minute.

I, too, have realized that no matter the logical reasons given…that homosexual practices bring disease of body, soul & mind, that they are a misuse of our sexual organs, that they brought great pain to many Catholic boys & much shame to the Church, etc,ETC… I will not change anyone’s beliefs about this. So, I just ask that gays do what they’re going to do, accept my prayers for their souls & quit asking me for more.

 

[rlg94086]

That’s because no one sees these as equivalents. Not even the RCC. Do you?

Yes, I do. And, I would challenge you to show me where the Church considers a compulsive masturbator to be different in nature to a person with same-sex attraction (aka homosexual). Both have disordered sexual desire. Both are called to chastity, as we all are.

 

[larkin31]

Nor do I see adulterers or thieves or any of our brothers & sisters in sin…marching to make me accept their sin as “normal, just different.”
Nor have I seen schools that encourage the acceptance of polygamy,
exhibitionism, sexual sadism, etc.

There was no hate in Laymen’s post, Carl, simply fatigue. Many of us are tired of having the agenda to call a sin against Natural Law…a normal act …shoved in our face.

There was a time when homosexual partners called their relationships… “The love that dare not speak its name.” Now, they will not be quiet for a minute.

I, too, have realized that no matter the logical reasons given…that homosexual practices bring disease of body, soul & mind, that they are a misuse of our sexual organs, that they brought great pain to many Catholic boys & much shame to the Church, etc,ETC… I will not change anyone’s beliefs about this. So, I just ask that gays do what they’re going to do, accept my prayers for their souls & quit asking me for more.

In law and politics and justice, as Martin Luther King, Jr., said: “Justice delayed is justice denied.” You should not ask people not to seek what they think is rightfully their’s.

 

[larkin31]

Actually he is absolutely correct. As we have seen in this thread and as we see in all homosexual fthreads homosexual apologists rarely want to discuss homosexuality itself.

Bull. Let’s talk about ANY aspect. Be my guest.

They always try to quickly steer the discussion towards how those who affirm church teaching on homosexuality are at the best lacking in charity and compassion, at worse are bigots.

Bull. We do not “always” do this. I was not even the one who raised the point. You can thank your fellow Catholic poster for stating FIRST that Catholics should not give compassion toward suicides of gays. Your myopia is breathtaking (and don’t go claiming that we “always resort quickly to claims of myopia” )

What else could one draw ,for instance, from your comment “it’s an attempt to ask for better thinking”? Better thinking than what?

Better than argument from this idea called “Natural Law”.

We are continually told we lack compassion but are never told just exactly what that compassion should entail. Personnly I will stick with what the church teaches and not with those who support homosexuality but don’t want to admit it tell us.

I quoted what the RCC teaches. So we are in agreement here. If you don’t know what the USCCB means by compassion and acceptance, and if you don’t know what the RCC means by treating AIDS patients with love and compassion and charity of spirit, then ask your priest. As the letter from the USCCB states, we must all examine our hearts to cleanse them of a lack of the love for fellow man or hardness of heart. If you don’t know what this means, seek guidance in your parish.

 

[estesbob]

Bull. Let’s talk about ANY aspect. Be my guest.

Bull. We do not “always” do this. I was not even the one who raised the point. You can thank your fellow Catholic poster for stating FIRST that Catholics should not give compassion toward suicides of gays. Your myopia is breathtaking (and don’t go claiming that we “always resort quickly to claims of myopia” )

Better than argument from this idea called “Natural Law”.

I quoted what the RCC teaches. So we are in agreement here. If you don’t know what the USCCB means by compassion and acceptance, and if you don’t know what the RCC means by treating AIDS patients with love and compassion and charity of spirit, then ask your priest. As the letter from the USCCB states, we must all examine our hearts to cleanse them of a lack of the love for fellow man or hardness of heart. If you don’t know what this means, seek guidance in your parish.

There you go again. Can you tell us what your definition of compassion is?. You keep waving the bishops comments around like the sword Excalibur but have yet to tell us what your interpretation of what compassion is. To be quite honest I don’t put a whole lot of stock in a non-believer lecturing Catholics on what it is our church teaches.

 

[larkin31]

There you go again. Can you tell us what your definition of compassion is?. You keep waving the bishops comments around like the sword Excalibur but have yet to tell us what your interpretation of what compassion is. To be quite honest I don’t put a whole lot of stock in a non-believer lecturing Catholics on what it is our church teaches.

Then don’t listen. You’re just being surly and smug because I quoted the RCC to the contrary of that poster.

But who cares. I am agnostic. Heck if I can read.

 

[rlg94086]

Yes, I do. And, I would challenge you to show me where the Church considers a compulsive masturbator to be different in nature to a person with same-sex attraction (aka homosexual). Both have disordered sexual desire. Both are called to chastity, as we all are.

Bump.

 

[estesbob]

Then don’t listen. You’re just being surly and smug because I quoted the RCC to the contrary of that poster.

But who cares. I am agnostic. Heck if I can read.

You cut n pasted something you dont understand, Still waiting for your definition of compassion for those who engage in homosexual behavior

 

[Tigg]

If you don’t know what the USCCB means by compassion and acceptance, and if you don’t know what the RCC means by treating AIDS patients with love and compassion and charity of spirit, then ask your priest. As the letter from the USCCB states, we must all examine our hearts to cleanse them of a lack of the love for fellow man or hardness of heart. If you don’t know what this means, seek guidance in your parish.

Oh confusion…confusion…and on top of that judgment for those, who in zeal and true love, would defend the faith.

We “get” the bishops letter and know full well that ridicule and rejection wounds the human spirit. I cannot imagine that a faith-filled Catholic, authentically living the sacramental life would knowingly and intentionally be so cruel. But you need to be careful with that “acceptance” thing and realize when the bishops are admonishing us to love the gay person it is because we are all nothing less than the work of God Himself which includes both body and soul. Extending moral clarity and admonishing the sinner is an act of spiritual love.

How many times can the same thing be said in different terms? Whether you believe it or not, speaking the Truth is the only truly compassionate response to one in error and confusion. Transcendent love goes beyond an emotion and truly seeks the best for another.

 

[larkin31]

Extending moral clarity and admonishing the sinner is an act of spiritual love.

Rarely.

And I don’t remember Jesus ever asking that we do this toward each other.

 

[StTommyMore]

Rarely.

And I don’t remember Jesus ever asking that we do this toward each other.

I already pointed this teaching out…Matthew 18:15.

 

[Sunflake9]

How very sad! To not even know what they are turning their back on.

 

[estesbob]

Rarely.

And I don’t remember Jesus ever asking that we do this toward each other.

"If your brother sins ,**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23741b”)] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

 

[larkin31]

"If your brother sins ,**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23741b”)] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Here is the whole thing:

15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 18 "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. 19 “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”

I take this to be more about wrongs committed against others and trying to redress them with witnesses. I don’t see anything about admonishment, nor about sexual sin, certainly. The prior passage is about lost sheep; this one is not.

 

[larkin31]

Shall we list all the places where Jesus instructs people NOT to be too harsh or critical or judgmental toward others, but rather to love and extend one’s heart to them? They are easier to find. Several times more easy.

 

[rlg94086]

"If your brother sins ,**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23741b”)] go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Here is the whole thing:

I take this to be more about wrongs committed against others and trying to redress them with witnesses. I don’t see anything about admonishment, nor about sexual sin, certainly. The prior passage is about lost sheep; this one is not.

Blindness

 

[Layman]

I was referring directly to the hate-filled rhetoric of the previous poster, who failed draw a distinction between the homosexual person and homosexual acts.

That’s another aspect of political correctness: that anyone who critictises homosexuality and its promotion is a ‘hater’.

I think it’s called congnitive dissonance. You introduce two conflicting ideas into someone’s mind

1. That homsexual acts are depraved
2. That despising these and those who promote them is bigotry.

To resolve the tension, the person, who thinks of themselves as ‘nice’, eases the tension by accepting proposition 2) above.

Like who wants to be a bigot, right? And thus the trick is done.

Fascinating, really, how our generation now happily promotes things our ancestors would have thought depraved. And feels pious in doing so!

 

[StTommyMore]

That’s another aspect of political correctness: that anyone who critictises homosexuality and its promotion is a ‘hater’.

I think it’s called congnitive dissonance. You introduce two conflicting ideas into someone’s mind

1. That homsexual acts are depraved
2. That despising these and those who promote them is bigotry.

To resolve the tension, the person, who thinks of themselves as ‘nice’, eases the tension by accepting proposition 2) above.

Like who wants to be a bigot, right? And thus the trick is done.

Fascinating, really, how our generation now happily promotes things our ancestors would have thought depraved. And feels pious in doing so!

I, without exception, am opposed to homosexual activity. However, there is a difference between the person and the act. The act is to be condemned, and the person is to be helped and loved. You would be wise to review the Gospel reading from this past Sunday.

 

[larkin31]

Shall we list all the places where Jesus instructs people NOT to be too harsh or critical or judgmental toward others, but rather to love and extend one’s heart to them? They are easier to find. Several times more easy.

yes?