Catholics. Is Salvation Easy Or Complicated?

[Justy90]

You mean to tell Catholics that they don’t have a relationship with God.

You are terribly mislead with your knowledge of the Catholic Church

 

[Deconi]

I was a cradle Catholic for three and a half decades and knew first hand that lack of a relationship with Christ.

Bet you’ve learned so muc through here about the faith you never knew existed or took the time to discover though!

Note: There’s nothing new! They’ve always been there; it’s just you did not look, or never asked.

 

[TheQuestioner]

That would be stretching it.

I am merely asking him/her if the person dies right after (repentance + baptism in the name of christ & receiving the Holy Ghost) but without engaging in any catholic sacraments, no knowledge of the pope nor the vatican would the person therefore end up in HELL?

From the verse in Acts, it seems very definite that the man will be SAVED…WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE OF THE CLERGY, POPE, VATICAN ETC ETC.

What does that tell us? Salvation is SIMPLE. And there is no room space for any of these ‘other’ things. Even the lack of these seem natural.

But wouldn’t those who baptize you count as clergy? The Pope being the head of Clergy and the Vatican being where the Pope resides?

You can’t baptize yourself you know. And I and everyone else has been agreeing you and saying that yes, provided he doesn’t sin in the split second before death, he will go to heaven. However, this does not imply that that is all there is to salvation. For someone who remains alive (and therefore has no subsequent excuse) if they were to sin they would need to do confession and penance. This cannot be done without clergy. And if they were to be told further about God and they denied Him (thus denying the truth, as God is truth) then they will have sinned, so now it gets a bit harder. Not only that, but they would have to go to mass weekly and receive the Body and Blood of Christ. Now, we also have the issue of getting married or not, which is in the realm God and helps to lead us to salvation. The verse you keep posting never mentions going to mass or church weekly, or praising God in worship, and yet we know we need to do these things to go to heaven (once again, should we keep living).

So yes, you could apply the situation to someone who is about to die, but when we take into account that most people aren’t about to die when they are baptized, your conclusion no longer necessarily applies. As such, you need to move beyond your simple example of a man about to die. What would apply to him may not apply to all of us. So yes, salvation is simple, though not as simple as you seem to apply it to everyone (the way in which it should only be applied to those who are immediately dying), though still, simple. However, keeping it is another story.

 

[guanophore]

Guanophore, next time try writing your answers together, its difficult to read with so many of them.

Do you mean by this you do not wish me to separate out the parts of your post to which I am responding?

You seem to be regurgitating what some people might have drilled into you cos you typed and typed and typed without explaining why these stances/views of yours are valid.

I doubt you would consider any of them as valid, since you reject the Sourcr from which they came. There has been no “drilling” however, except my own drilling into the history of the faith. It was this drilling that caused me to cease being Protestant.

I have this for you. Go read the bible. Pray for the Holy Ghost and ask Him to guide you. Cos you can be sure that if there’s anybody out there who can save you, its got to be Jesus. Yes, NOT your clergymen and NOT your bishops etc.

You have gravely misunderstood me, Mo. I am curious on what basis you assume I don’t read the bible?

I also am confused about where you got the idea I thought I could be saved by any other that Jesus. There is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved.

 

[guanophore]

Robert, u spoke so much to deny ur stand of its insuffiency only to show otherwise. if its not already clear, ur act of applying that verse only on exception cases reflects ur take of its insufficiency. That needs no excuses. And that qualifies u for heresy. Secondly, if receiving the Holy spirit is not an assurance of salvation then u must be holding a book thats not written by God. Cos God Himself claims in the bible that the spirit calls out Abba Father! And u are denying these people of their sonship! Are you then not the devil?

How does having exceptions make the verse “insufficient”? Exceptions are not “excuses”. What is the heresy?

While receiving the HS does give the assurance of salvaiton, it is not a guarantee of redemtion. The HS is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire posession of it. This will not happen if we are disqualified from the race.

God loves his adopted sons so much He will allow them to perish in the pigstye, if they refuse to repent.

 

[guanophore]

I was a cradle Catholic for three and a half decades and knew first hand that lack of a relationship with Christ.

This is testimony that you know very little of the Catholic faith. Your faith remained in the cradle.

 

[Justy90]

This is testimony that you know very little of the Catholic faith. Your faith remained in the cradle.

No, this is testimony that one such as myself who had a devout upbringing and it being sustained in the Catholic church ultimately came to know very little about the one who is called Savior, Jesus Christ in the Catholic church. It wasn’t until years later after leaving the Roman church that I began to know and understand the person of Jesus Christ.

 

[TheQuestioner]

No, this is testimony that one such as myself who had a devout upbringing and it being sustained in the Catholic church ultimately came to know very little about the one who is called Savior, Jesus Christ in the Catholic church. It wasn’t until years later after leaving the Roman church that I began to know and understand the person of Jesus Christ.

Though your concern is real…you realize that ultimately it is not the Churches fault right? Well as a whole anyway, not much can be said about individual parishes. Most of the knowledge about the person of Christ came from the Catholic Church, 1500 years of it until the protestant reformation to be exact.

 

[Justy90]

Though your concern is real…you realize that ultimately it is not the Churches fault right? Well as a whole anyway, not much can be said about individual parishes. Most of the knowledge about the person of Christ came from the Catholic Church, 1500 years of it until the protestant reformation to be exact.

It may have come through the Catholic church, but it didn’t come from it. Again, not all Christianity was derrived through Rome at any time in history.

 

[guanophore]

No, this is testimony that one such as myself who had a devout upbringing and it being sustained in the Catholic church ultimately came to know very little about the one who is called Savior, Jesus Christ in the Catholic church. It wasn’t until years later after leaving the Roman church that I began to know and understand the person of Jesus Christ.

I can certainly confirm your testimony, as I had one similar. One can practice a form of Godliness without the power thereof.

However, it is impossible to be a devout Catholic without knowing and understanding the Saviour, Jesus Christ. So, something was very lacking in in your “sustenance” don’t you think?

The Catholic Church is not “Roman”, Justy, and the fact that you were not able to receive Christ through her is not the fault of the Church. I am glad that you now have a living relationship with our saviour. Happy Jesus’ birthday!

 

[guanophore]

It may have come through the Catholic church, but it didn’t come from it. Again, not all Christianity was derrived through Rome at any time in history.

Both things are true. It is from and through the Church. However, you are also right that Christianity comes through Christ, not Rome. It is only in your imagination that Catholicism is “Roman”.

 

[Lamentabili]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Reading the above, one understands clearly that sins are forgiven and the gift of the Holy Ghost given upon** Repentance + Baptism in the name of Jesus.**

Meaning, ANYONE (eg. living alone, in desert, in mountain tops, jungles etc) ONLY needs to Repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus, and he/she will be saved upon receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Period.

This is true. At the moment of a valid Baptism that person is saved and if that person would die immediately afterwards, would go straight to Heaven.

Question: So, Where and how does the church, pope, mary etc etc come into the picture???

They come into the picture because Christ founded the Church on Peter (first Pope) and the early Christians venerated Mary and taught us to do so as well. The Church was founded to perpetuate and administer the 7 sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls. Baptism is one of those sacraments by which grace is initially infused into the soul.

The problem is that just because someone is saved at Baptism doesn’t mean they will be saved when they die. They can fall into serious sin and, if unrepentant for that sin and die, go to Hell. St. Paul makes clear in scripture that salvation can be lost. This is why Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance (forgiveness) so that one can be “saved” once again. (See John 20:22)

 

[cecilia97]

Someone very wise taught me that simple, not easy, is the opposite of complicated. The opposite of easy is difficult.

I’m finding that salvation is simple and difficult (not easy or complicated). Even Paul said he worked out his salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[Deconi]

Someone very wise taught me that simple, not easy, is the opposite of complicated. The opposite of easy is difficult.

I’m finding that salvation is simple and difficult (not easy or complicated). Even Paul said he worked out his salvation with fear and trembling.

Bullseye

 

[Justy90]

Both things are true. It is from and through the Church. However, you are also right that Christianity comes through Christ, not Rome. It is only in your imagination that Catholicism is “Roman”.

The Roman Catholic church. Your denomination.

 

[GraceDK]

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Reading the above, one understands clearly that sins are forgiven and the gift of the Holy Ghost given upon** Repentance + Baptism in the name of Jesus.**

Meaning, ANYONE (eg. living alone, in desert, in mountain tops, jungles etc) ONLY needs to Repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus, and he/she will be saved upon receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Period.

Question: So, Where and how does the church, pope, mary etc etc come into the picture???

PS. By following Acts 2:38, it seems I don’t even need to know where is the Vatican. Or does someone/some people out there want to tell us that Peter did not complete his sentence or perhaps had said the wrong thing?

.

Dear brother or sister.
Personally I dont think its easy to repent.
Do you?
Did you ever ask God to show you all the areas of your life and heart that your keep to your self like little idols… ?

As far I as I concerned Christ is our Salvation. He has paid a high price for each and every soul with His blood. Christ is our Justification, our Peace. He is the resurrection.

But many times we don’t trust Him. Many times we turn, each to our way… we complicate things, we loose our self in philosophies, in condemning our brothers, in the brackets of life, in the material things, in the flesh and its passions…
All the life is a practice of trust and humbling and learning to love like Christ loved us.

So salvation is both extremely simple and extremely complicated.
We could call life “salvation school”.

 

[GraceDK]

rovimax;6077398:

You mean to tell Catholics that they don’t have a relationship with God. I was a cradle Catholic for three and a half decades and knew first hand that lack of a relationship with Christ.

I spent 20 years in Protestantism without knowing that Jesus is as alive today as He was 2000 years ago.
However, that does not mean that there are not Spiritfilled people in Protestantism at all. It only means that God chose to bring me somewhere else and teach me to have a personal relationship with Him and read the Bible on a daily basis mainly through the inspiration of Orthodox and Catholic testimonies.

I hope you are not saying that God is hindered by the names we call ourselves, as we have all divided ourselves under His name against His will.
God is greater than your church, my friend.

Merry Christmas and Peace be with you

 

[Carlan]

Someone very wise taught me that simple, not easy, is the opposite of complicated. The opposite of easy is difficult.

I’m finding that salvation is simple and difficult (not easy or complicated). Even Paul said he worked out his salvation with fear and trembling.

yes, I like that, Thanks Cecilia.Carlan

 

[cecilia97]

Bullseye

My first official CAF bullseye. Thanks, Deconi!

 

[Deconi]

My first official CAF bullseye. Thanks, Deconi!

A pleasure!

Robyn Hood is In Da House!?!

All the other ‘efforts’ are good and most just peppered the target…until you stepped up…with unassuming and ‘simple’ words!..one shot !!..and WON the tourney!

Simple really