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fhansen
Guest
All faiths require that one subjugate themselves to their doctrines-whether the authority comes from a holy book or a teaching authority within a church, etc. What need would we have for religion unless we thought it had more to offer us then have to offer on our own? In Catholicism, however, one is expected to freely submit to that obedience because they’ve come to agree, for themselves, with those doctrines rather than because they’ve been coerced to.
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Trishie
Guest
Hi 
As in Lecio Divino and in any bible study group, or in preparation as readers on Sunday, we read the scripture several times, then reflect prayerfully, after which we share the insights we gain in whatever the Holy Spirit inspires. There are no indoctrination classes for the biblein the Catholic Church! We do know that scriptures are understood according to doctrine and truth, but we have freedom to read scripture whenever we choose and to understand the truth we read there.
I noticed your link, “mary worship”. You know, I hope, that never are we permitted to worship Mary . She is a wonderful faith-filled woman who was chosen and accepted to be mother of our Redeemer, but she is loved, as Jesus would expect us to love His mother. Cherished as mother, but never worshipped. To worship her would be heresy.
God bless you
As in Lecio Divino and in any bible study group, or in preparation as readers on Sunday, we read the scripture several times, then reflect prayerfully, after which we share the insights we gain in whatever the Holy Spirit inspires. There are no indoctrination classes for the biblein the Catholic Church! We do know that scriptures are understood according to doctrine and truth, but we have freedom to read scripture whenever we choose and to understand the truth we read there.
I noticed your link, “mary worship”. You know, I hope, that never are we permitted to worship Mary . She is a wonderful faith-filled woman who was chosen and accepted to be mother of our Redeemer, but she is loved, as Jesus would expect us to love His mother. Cherished as mother, but never worshipped. To worship her would be heresy.
God bless you
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brkn1
Guest
This free submission in Roman Catholicism, however, does also come with some fine print:
If anyone says otherwise to (such and such doctrine)…Let him be anathema (accursed).
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fhansen
Guest
**I believe it was used more in the sense of “shunned”, which is exactly what faiths often do anyway to someone who obstinately refuses to believe their teachings. That language and attitude comes from a different historical era, however, and nobody I know cares less if disbelief carries with it an anathema, but the idea still remains that the Catholic Church knows her teachings to have been revealed by God and as such to be worth cherishing and protecting because of their value for the whole human race.
**
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Chancellare
Guest
Catholics use the same standard Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) to know what the Church teaches, not what non-catholics say Catholics are doing nor what ex-catholics say Catholics are doing.
On the matters of Bible interpretation, we know the following:
III. THE INTERPRETATION OF THE HERITAGE OF FAITH
The heritage of faith entrusted to the whole of the Church
84 The apostles entrusted the “Sacred deposit” of the faith (the depositum fidei),45 contained in Sacred Scripture and Tradition, to the whole of the Church. "By adhering to [this heritage] the entire holy people, united to its pastors, remains always faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. So, in maintaining, practicing and professing the faith that has been handed on, there should be a remarkable harmony between the bishops and the faithful."46
The Magisterium of the Church
85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48
87 Mindful of Christ’s words to his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me”,49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms…
scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a2.htm
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MariaG
Guest
If anyone preach to you a gospel besides what you have received, let him be anathema: (Galatians 1:9).
When the Church declares doctrine, she truly believs that it is gospel truth and warns people just as Paul did as to the consequences of altering that truth.
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06convert
Guest
Well first things first…
- A website that is dedicated to undermining the doctrine of the Catholic Church automatically looses credibiltiy for me.
- We don’t worship Mary. We pray to her and ask for her intervention. So from the onset of this website “Mary Worship?” the person who wrote it has no clue.
- If we leave Biblical interpreation up to the feelings of whomever reads it you get mass confusion and many different interpretations. This is the reason that there are hundreds of different churches teaching hundreds of different interpreatations of the Bible in the world. The Catholic Church was the first Church, everything else is an offshoot.
- The Bible can mean whatever you want it to mean if you take it out of context.
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Chancellare
Guest
There’s a good chance that the person named Mary Ann Collins, alledgedly an ex-nun, does not exist in real life:
speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=1799
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bpbasilphx
Guest
According to the official teaching of the Catholic Church, Catholic men and women are not allowed to believe what they read in the Bible without checking it out with the Catholic Church. They are required to find out how the bishops of the Church interpret a passage and they are to accept what the bishops teach as if it came from Jesus Christ Himself. They are not allowed to use their own judgment or follow their own conscience. They are required to believe whatever the bishops teach without questioning it
When I was a Baptist (before I got saved) they prided themselves on the right of every believer to interpret scripture for himself–but woe betide you if your interpretation was differnt from those around you!
When I was a Baptist (before I got saved) they prided themselves on the right of every believer to interpret scripture for himself–but woe betide you if your interpretation was differnt from those around you!
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brkn1
Guest
The problem is that a declared doctrine changes the Gospel, if it did not exist before.
An example of this would be: Pius IX’s Immaculate Conception dogma which includes: “There is no salvation to those who do not believe this dogma.”
Recent RCC popes confirmed that doctrine with the anniversary celebrations.
Paul never taught such salvation nonsense, so that verse applies to the RCC for its alteration of the simple Gospel.
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michaelcollins
Guest
Oh be gosh, would you be in trouble if your interpretation was not the same as the preacher’s or if you focus on God’s love and forgiveness not on Hell, don’t dare become one of those prosperity protestants who fail to yell and scream hell and fire but discuss God wanting good for you and pointing out how often God had fufilled his promises to his people.
Yes, it is the same in every religion, they may say the big differance is the RCC requires you to adhere to its interpretation while enlightened protestants allow each to be touched by the holy spirit, until as you point out that touching is diferent than the views of the majority.
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michaelcollins
Guest
Sorry but the problem is both what you believe and what I believe is different and where is the authority for any belief you hold?
When the question is posed to most protestants they respond that there authority comes from their reading of the bible, the problem is then the many, many diferent interpretations of scriptures that are held by protestants, and why is a particular individual qualified by education, history or expierence to tell anyone else what they should believe?
It goes even further to your bible, the KJV is that that was published by an english king to meet his wants, under his authority and the only reason he was not RCC was-divorce.
I hope historical truths do not go beyond the simplistic nature of those non-catholics posting here. The KJV excluded books from the bible that had been included for 1500+yrs because they supposedly undermined the king, a strong reason in my opinion to edit your scripture (i hope sarcasim is noted).
I have lost patience with those of you noncatholics who have come to this forum not for answers or an understnading of my religion but to either try and convert or to without historical accuracy, knowledge or understanding tell me what I or my church believe.
My patience is especially thin because, I was raised a protestant and as a result became agnostic, one step away from becoming an athiest when the church restored my faith and my salvation, and because my God through prayer including the annointing of the sick saved my life when I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and after the above my tumors by the power of prayer and the grace of Christ became miracuously benign.
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kage_ar
Guest
Give you a dollar if you can back up these accusations with one OFFICIAL CATHOLIC document (I’ll even give ya a hint, www.vatican.va).
po18guy
Well-known member
Well, it would not then be actual submission, correct? This is to combat heresy, not out of heavy-handedness or human ego. It stems from Christ’s own words to “deny” yourself. Following Christ comes at a cost, so it is entirely consistent that remaining in His Church also has a cost associated with it. But, consider the reward, not the cost. It is the pearl of great price. Eternal life - who cares how much it costs?
po18guy
Well-known member
The claims of that site are very old, very worn out, very false and very much based on ignorance of the Catholic Church. Mary worship? PLEASE look in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm and see if you can find any such reference. You will not. You will, however, find “veneration” of all Saints (including Mary), which is NOT to be confused with worship. The Catechism states: God alone shall we worship (CCC 2095-2105).
The Catholic Church has not interpreted every sentence in the bible, nor will it. It allows the Lord to speak to each heart through scripture, but maintains a framework of authority to teach and correct the errant soul.
When addressing attacks on the Catholic Church, it is useful to ask only two questions:
- Does the Holy Spirit unite?
- Does the demon divide?
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brkn1
Guest
Maybe your patience is worn thin, because you can not deny that your church says that you must also believe in the “Immaculate Conception” of Mary for salvation. You know that this doctrine has a serious opposition even in the RCC itself by its early church members. It is a new gospel, not something ever spoken about by Paul or Scripture.
So what if I try to point out what I see as error in your RCC beliefs, If you were so sure of the truth of your own RCC beliefs, you would not get so upset.
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mark_a
Guest
What you say here is true, but it takes a while to come to realize and accept what the Church teaches. Getting upset is ok when it leads one to investigate anything declared by anyone to be truth.
Teachings such as the IC are difficult and really require faith to believe.
But remember that the same Church that brings the difficult truth of the IC also teaches the difficult truth about contraception. How many “churches” out there are calling the IC a lie and turning a blind eye to the evil of contraception?
There are scads of them.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
I DONT THINK THAT MARY ANN COLLINS IS A REAL PERSON AND CATHLOICS DO NOT WORSHIP MARY,SO SHE DOES NOT HAVE HER FACTS RIGHT TO START WITH I THINK THIS IS FROM THE JACK CHICK TAPES,HAPPY NEW YEAR
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pismopal
Guest
A Catholic is not free to make his own doctrine or articles of faith but the Magisterium and teaching authority do not have an interpretation of every verse in the OT and NT ( nor should they). A Catholic is free to read and interpret what he reads until what he thinks he reads conflicts with Catholic Church doctrine. At the point where you begin not adhering to doctrine then you should make a decision. If you don’t want to be a Catholic you can start your own “church” or join up with the tens of thousands of designer churchs out there. Personally…when I recite the creed at mass I am very comfortable with every word and when I read the Bible or hear it read at mass ( every mass for you that are wondering ) I don’t hear anything that conflicts with Catholic doctrine. Two thousand years is a little late to do a “looky here what I found.” 
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