Which have largely gone unanswered, or poorly answered, by Christians.
After 60 years after being found, the Dead Sea Scrolls have been well available.
Perhaps for the premises of certain movements of Judaism, but I highly doubt any such differences, would be inconvenient for Judaism itself.
The majority of Jews are secular. That is why they do not reject Zionism. If you talk to any truly religious, orthodox Jews, they will, for the most part, reject secularist Zionism.
All this sounds like the kind of misdirection effort that a Mason would come up with to me.
???
Are you aware of traditional Christian interpretations of this issue, which differ with the one you have expressed?
I am fully aware . And , sadly, some of our “tradional Christian interpretations” were developed through a "Christ killers’ lens , replacement theology, and without accounting for and forgetting all the judiac foundations from which our faith comes.
Really now? Not only was the covenant fulfilled in the Catholic Church, not only is Judaism not a valid religion any more (no offense to Jews, especially those who hate and despise Zionism) but God’s promise that this land belongs to the Jews is not valid any more. He gave them the land of Israel in the Old Testament because they were His chosen people back then. Catholics are His chosen people now. Jesus never told the Jews to keep their land. Hell, if you think Jesus would tell the Jews to drive Arabs and gentiles out because they don’t 'belong on ‘their land’ means that Jesus was racist fascist whose aim was to spread worldly power.
. Really, they’re anti-semitic, they hate their own race’s guts.A guilty dog always barks first.
many Catholics still do not grasp the full implications of this statement, and the fact that among God’s irrevocable gifts to the Jewish people, the gift of the land of Israel occupies pride of place.
Amen, brother. I, and everyone else here, can see that love when you advocate putting all the “Zionists in a bottle and throwing it in the ocean.” Truly, I can think of no better way to “spread the faith” and “be united with people in the love of God and Mary” than by using that kind of language. You’re a wonderful ambassador for Catholicism.
but in fact, his antisemitic (or anti-zionist, if he prefers) supersessionist and triumphalistic attitude is a perfect example of the attitude that has kept Jews OUT of the Church for 2,000 years.
Yes, the Satmar Orthodox sect of Judaism and certain other Orthodox Jews, who form the Neturai Karta movement against Zionism, do not support an Israeli state due to its formation by people instead of according to G-d’s Messianic prophecy. However, you’re correct that the vast majority of Orthodox Jews (Traditional, Modern, Hasidic Haredi, and non-Hasidic Haredi) do support both Israel and Zionism, even though the Zionist movement is largely secular. Also, certain Reform Jews consider it ultra-liberal and chic to oppose Zionism. I’m a Reform Jew AND a supporter of the State of Israel.
Thank you for the information. I’m partial to the Jewish faith due to its use of tradition, and history (which I see as analogous to Catholicism), but I support Israel for secular reasons.
Oh yes, the Karaite Jews. I know something about them but never met any. They are, as you say, sola Scriptura. That translates to no lighting of Sabbath candles or affixing of miniature Torah scrolls (mezuzahs) on doorposts, including other practices not found in Scripture. I would guess they’re opposed to Zionism as well.
In my opinion, based on my understanding and research Israel of today exists as a result of Dispensationalist, Evangelical Protestants and the United Nations. There is a need for the existence of the state of Israel that fuels the Evangelical propagation of beliefs and their understanding of Prophecy.Hello to all,
Fascinating discussion. I see that quite a broad range of positions have already been presented, from the classical “the Church is Israel” supersessionist position to various philo-zionist positions.
As director of Catholics for Israel I could not resist throwing in my two cents.
The topic of Zionism is moving more and more to the forefront of theological discussions as the relationship between the Jewish people and Land of Israel increasingly becomes an unavoidable theological “hot potato.”
When Nostra Aetate 4 quotes St. Paul saying that
many Catholics still do not grasp the full implications of this statement, and the fact that among God’s irrevocable gifts to the Jewish people, the gift of the land of Israel occupies pride of place.
Often, remnant Catholic resistance to Zionism and to God’s action in the history of His chosen people stems from a confusion of several issues. Many associate Zionism with colonialism, or racism, or with a license for Israelis to carry out injustices against non-Jews living in the Holy Land. Others associate Zionism with hope for the rebuilding of the Temple and restoration of sacrifices, or with Protestant fundamentalism/ dispensationalism, or with mad apocalyptic fervor, or with a dual-covenant theology that would in some way undermine the unicity of Christ and the Catholic Church as source of salvation.
But none of these are an essential part of zionism or of the relationship between the Jewish People and Land of Israel.
At Catholics for Israel, we deal with these questions extensively. Recently we published an article called Israel between Past, Present and Future which attempts to sketch out a genuinely Catholic biblical and theological position on the role of Israel today and in salvation history, trying to see God’s faithfulness at work even through the messy politics of the Middle East and human sin that often obscure God’s action.
That article was published as part of an ongoing (and fascinating) dialogue with Fr. Carlo Colonna from Bari, Italy, a holy priest who has a very sharp and lucid vision of Israel’s role in salvation history and in relationship to the Church.
You may see the different parts of this dialogue in our section Israel and the Church (along with a number of other articles on the subject.)
Thanks for your attention, please come and visit us, and we look forward to your (name removed by moderator)ut!
Ariel
Catholics for Israel
Well, that was ugly.Really now? Not only was the covenant fulfilled in the Catholic Church, not only is Judaism not a valid religion any more (no offense to Jews, especially those who hate and despise Zionism) but God’s promise that this land belongs to the Jews is not valid any more. He gave them the land of Israel in the Old Testament because they were His chosen people back then. Catholics are His chosen people now. Jesus never told the Jews to keep their land. Hell, if you think Jesus would tell the Jews to drive Arabs and gentiles out because they don’t 'belong on ‘their land’ means that Jesus was racist fascist whose aim was to spread worldly power.
Why don’t you put all the Zionist Jews in a bottle, lock them there and throw them into the ocean while your at it? Their heaven is to serve their selfish greed and to reign a horrible country where non-Jews don’t have rights and are inferior to them, a bottle given by God will serve just fine for a country, even though it literally is a piece of worthless rubbish now.
And don’t tell me that I am anti-semitic, that is ridiculous. I disagree with Judaism as a religion as much as I disagree with Protestantism and Islam. I want to convert the Jews and let them see the error of their ways, not kill them or put them in ghettos. But Zionism? Zionism isn’t even on the same level of Judaism. Even amongst the Jews who do support this empty cause, you’ll be hard pressed to find one who supports this modern apartheid, just as it is easy to find a Muslim who hates the Taliban’s guts. If you think Zionism represents all the Jews, you’re dead wrong, because orthodox Jews regard Zionism as a usurpation of their own god’s power; Zionists literally took problems into their own hands and declared that they are working through the hand of God, just as Luther did when he supposedly )and miserably failing at that) tried ‘reforming’ the Church. Proof can be found here: youtube.com/watch?v=kh2mdPbYnZI&feature=related God bless them that they may find the right path but at the same time, may God forgive them for being so anti-semitic
Why not put the Jews in a bottle? Thats what Zionists think about them, greedy people who are the master race. Its fitting they have a country where they can serve themselves and discriminate and even persecute ‘inferior’ races and a bottle can serve the same purpose that the land of Palestine does: its small, compressed but there’s plenty of space where Zionists can enjoy their greed.
In the end, all that matters is to love God, join the Catholic Church, spread the faith and be united with people in the love of God and Mary. Whats important (and Catholics listen to me here) is not having a state supporting your religion or your own stupid race (and yes, all races, be they African, Jewish, American, German, English, Chinese, Japanese, Caucasian, white, green, Na’vi, etc… are as insignificant as the color of our eyes and to fight over which race is better is to lie and play a huge and cruel practical joke to yourself). We must spread our Catholic faith but we mustn’t persecute people to do it, we must convince them to join it.
And to the poster with the bunny rabbit for an avatar, it is equally important to Jews which religion is real because if Judaism is a false religion and the Catholic one is the true one, wouldn’t that mean you’re outside the Church? I don’t want to discuss which is the true religion here, as there are numerous other threads disussing this and if you’re actually sicnere in your religion, you should investigate it further and see its own errors (however, if you want a Catholic perspective on Judaism and the Talmud, don’t read The Talmud Unmasked. I actually beleive dit at first but then I did my research and found that the book falsified many quotes. The Tlmud still has alot of questionable and sorry to say, insane content, but it never says that Jews should clean a jar because a gentile touched it, though it does teach that Jews are or can be superior to Gentiles because they are the chosen people. Kaballah teaches this too. Obvious really. The book was written by anti-semitic Lithuanian Priest who himself hardly knew any Hebrew and was a fraud. Its not and never was the general view of Christian on Jews).