Catholics... Just As Bad As Protestants?

[Singinbeauty]

So basically the catholic church has the notion of ‘Do what I say not what I do’?

 

[scylla]

Only if you are looking at the bad examples, well then yes!

What you commonly see of people outside the Church, who have a negative opinion of the Church is a focus on the negative persons or actions of persons in the Church.

It is only after looking into it do you even get a chance to see the huge percentage in love with Christ and living it. So the truth is seek the truth and live it.

Is a pastor who has a infidelity problem an example of what the Bible teaches? We should look for the truth, that is why we need to look beyond human failings and seek Christ’s unity.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[mercygate]

Singinbeauty:

So basically the catholic church has the notion of ‘Do what I say not what I do’?

A very wise young priest once said to me, “You can’t judge the Church by the people you know. To be fair, you have to judge her by what she actually teaches.”

 

[St.Colette]

One, Holy, Apostolic, Church to safe guard the Truth revealed to the OT prophets and to the Apostles and to pass it down from generation to generation.

No it is One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Singinbeauty:

So basically the catholic church has the notion of ‘Do what I say not what I do’?

No. Church teaching does not exempt bishops, priests, and other religious.

 

[kim_wilson]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singinbeauty
… I go to a non-denom church and the pastor there does his sermon then I go home and study over what he talked about and come to a conclusion of whether or not I agree. He will not tell me what to believe, just present his ‘case’, and “luckily” I have agree’d with him thus far. End Quote.

Beauty,
If you come to an “unlucky” disagreement about what Scripture teaches, what will you do? How will you know who the Holy Spirit is truly guiding–you or your pastor? I don’t want to sound like I’m attacking you, but it sounds as if you are not so much seeking the Truth as you are seeking churches or persons that agree with your interpretation of the Truth. If you are so certain that the Holy Spirit is guiding you in what you believe, perhaps you should start your own church.

Good “luck” in your journey, Beauty. I grew up fundamentalist Baptist, protestant hopped for years as an adult till I found the Catholic Church. I would suggest that you begin praying for God to show you whether or not He established one true church on earth. You might also want to read the writings of the early Church fathers (Ignatius, Polycarp, Clement to name a few) some of whom were discipled by the Apostles themselves.

kim

 

[kim_wilson]

OOOOPS sorry Beauty—I rewrote my earlier letter because I thought it didn’t go through. Disregard this post.

 

[Singinbeauty]

kim wilson:

Originally Posted by Singinbeauty
… I go to a non-denom church and the pastor there does his sermon then I go home and study over what he talked about and come to a conclusion of whether or not I agree. He will not tell me what to believe, just present his ‘case’, and “luckily” I have agree’d with him thus far.

Beauty,
If you come to an “unlucky” disagreement about what Scripture teaches, what will you do?

I never said I disagree with what the SCRIPTURE teaches… Where did you get that??? I said I may disagree with the approach that the pastor takes with the scriptures.

How will you know who the Holy Spirit is truly guiding–you or your pastor?

It is a quandry isn’t it. All I can know is what I feel and hear in my heart. That’s all I can go off of. I believe that the Holy Spirit is leading me when I may disagree with something that is being taught just as I believe it was the Holy Spirit that told me to run away from that church I spoke of before. The Holy Spirit does convict me when my pastor speaks on something in my life that I may be doing that isn’t so good for my walk. I really don’t understand why I have to keep repeating myself over and over again on this issue. Is it because you don’t trust the Holy Spirit to speak to you when you may have a conflict with what the priest is saying or is it that the words I am speaking need to be said in a different manner?

I don’t want to sound like I’m attacking you,

No attack has been interpreted as of yet though you keep almost apologizing for it so maybe that is your intent in a passive aggressive manner I don’t know but no harm so far.

but it sounds as if you are not so much seeking the Truth as you are seeking churches or persons that agree with your interpretation of the Truth. If you are so certain that the Holy Spirit is guiding you in what you believe, perhaps you should start your own church.

As I have stated in a previous post I am severely unqualified to start my own denomination. I don’t think there is any reason for starting my own denomination because I would just be another knucklehead trying to tell people what the Holy Spirit should already be telling them in their hearts. God has not called me to be a leader in His Holy Church. He has called me to search for Him in every aspect of my life. I know who God is because He and I are very close. We have a very intimate relationship. I have no secrets from Him and He reveals to me everyday His will through me.

I know you say you aren’t trying to attack me but your statement above says otherwise.

Good “luck” in your journey, Beauty. I grew up fundamentalist Baptist, protestant hopped for years as an adult till I found the Catholic Church. I would suggest that you begin praying for God to show you whether or not He established one true church on earth.

He has established ONE TRUE CHURCH. Christianity. True christianity not the bogus kind that seek to pull Him out of the limelight. (And before you jump… I am not including the catholic church in this ‘bogus’ category) WE are His church. Not a building.

You might also want to read the writings of the early Church fathers (Ignatius, Polycarp, Clement to name a few) some of whom were discipled by the Apostles themselves.

I will check them out… thank you!

 

[RobHom]

Singinbeauty:

Ok, I have a request to make… We have, like, 5 discussions going on here and they all involve asking ME all the questions. WHAT DO I BELIEVE? WHAT DO I BELIEVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO BE? WHAT DO I BELIEVE IS WRONG WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HISTORY? WHO FOUNDED THE CHURCH IF IT WASN’T THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF TODAY? WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL CHURCH IF NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?

I haven’t yet weighed in on this…I’ve been mostly lurking and reading… But I have to say: You’ve opened a pandora’s box, all by yourself.

I can only answer what I know. There is much I do not know…

Yet you will cast a judgment and make decisions?

but I cannot keep up this dizzying conversation. It’s just too much. I would love to address each and every question and comment but with 5billion catholics bombarding you with questions on several different subjects it is kind of hard. I apologize to those that have not gotten an answer but my brain is kind of full right now. I want to keep this thread to what I originally posted on.

I’ve noticed during the course of the thread that it has been you that has shifted the subject matter…so an entreaty to stop is a bit odd…

And also to introduce what I believe. Not so much defend it, just lay it out. I have not asked any of you to defend or even give evidence just yet as to what you believe so please back up just a little… I don’t want this to get out of hand and leave people frustrated. Thank you for understanding!

Now mind you…what I have also seen is the somewhat standard mantra of the “eCb”, or “evangelical Catholic basher”. You’ve used the word “cult”, the words “priest, and child molester”, and a number of others…all in reference to “Catholics”… And the title of this thread was a bit of a giveaway…

I’m curious…did you come here seeking knowledge , reason to convert, or to try and convert? I have my suspicions. I can also tell you that I have no need or reason to “defend” or “justify” what I believe. I was born a Catholic, raised as a Catholic, and have lived as a Catholic. I know why my faith and Church are true, and all the evidence that could be given is contained in the Bible. And I further believe that if you actually believe what the Bible says you have to be a Catholic.

So in closing, I will answer your initial question: No, Catholics are not as bad as Protestants. If you would like me to explain that in detail…just ask.

Now, keep this in mind…I have no reason to be mean, or ugly, just honest and forthright. If you have specific questions, please ask each in a separate thread as previously suggested and those of us who choose to will address the issue and set the record right.

If you like, I can, when I have the time go back and address each and every issue you have raised.

 

[RobHom]

Singinbeauty:

I would like to respectfully disagree… Someone on this thread said that they are happy that they have someone to tell them what to believe… To me that says blind faith and I don’t believe that God intended that for us.

The problem is in being able to interpret the statement. Unfortunately most non-Catholics do not understand things the way that they are said. I am not bashing you here, but trying to give you an point of context: We Catholics “accept” the Church as our teacher where scripture is concerned. We read the Bible just as much as you…but we do not generally abide by the evangelical claim that “each and every person on the faith of this earth is qualified to interpret scriptures”. This is where the Church comes in, as the “final authority on the issue”. It has absolutely nothing to do with “blind faith”. Frankly, to go beyond a “simple” understanding of scriptures, without help from the Church, one would have to have as mentioned prior a solid fluent and working knowledge of ancient greek, latin and aramic. Thats a simple truth.

I might remind you that the bulk of protestant religions, being reformist religions…follow the teachings of Luther and Calvin and as such do not believe that “man” has free will. Catholics are directly the opposite. We are taught early on that we in fact do possess free will and that God gave it to us. So, if we possess free will…how then can we be “blind followers”?

 

[Singinbeauty]

Now mind you…what I have also seen is the somewhat standard mantra of the “eCb”, or “evangelical Catholic basher”. You’ve used the word “cult”, the words “priest, and child molester”, and a number of others…all in reference to “Catholics”… And the title of this thread was a bit of a giveaway…

I wanted to reply to this before anything else because this is exactly why I started this thread in the first place. If you were to go back and re-read the posts that contain these phrases you would see that I said these are the things that I have been taught and I am trying to squelch the belief that catholics are BAD. You saw those ‘keywords’ and assumed I was secretly trying to attack the catholic tradition. I think that most here will agree I have been nothing but respectful while posting.

I have no secret agenda. Not looking to catch you in a lie or a misleading comment. I am not looking to convert you from your beliefs or convert myself to being catholic. I have been taught (I think I may have said this more than once on this thread alone) that the catholic church was a cult and evil. Knowing that everyone here is a christian I knew this was not the case so I am here to learn more and to build a bridge of understanding between the catholic path and mine (non-denominational).

As for the title of this thread I was merely trying to convey that EVERY catholic I have ever met claims that protestants are out to attack them, bash them and the catholic faith, and generally make them feel stupid in their beliefs. But in the short time that I was on this board, a catholic board, I had seen a ton of messages that had catholics bashing protestantism. Kind of hypocritical. You can’t cry and be a victim and then turn around and do the same to someone else. And that was the point the ‘Original Post’ intent was about. Now a few other issues arose and at first I was answering questions but when they started to pour in (I was having, like, 6 questions to my 1 answer) It was a bit overwhelming which was the intent of the post you quoted and told me I was opening a Pandora’s box. I wasn’t saying ask me those questions I was saying that I was getting all those questions at once and to answer each individual post was proving to be quite hard. So I was asking people to slow down and calm down.

Now, if you continue in your posts to make it sound like you are belittleing me, taking my posts out of context, and/or make it sound like I am attacking without trying to see what I mean before you jump all over me I will reserve my right not to answer you. I have tried to be respectful and I expect the same from you.

Thank you!

 

[RobHom]

Singinbeauty:

I wanted to reply to this before anything else because this is exactly why I started this thread in the first place. If you were to go back and re-read the posts that contain these phrases you would see that I said these are the things that I have been taught and I am trying to squelch the belief that catholics are BAD. You saw those ‘keywords’ and assumed I was secretly trying to attack the catholic tradition.

And in 99.9999% of the times when a Catholic hears or reads those words or phrases it tends to be the preamble of what normally follows.

I think that most here will agree I have been nothing but respectful while posting.

Not being one to quibble over minutiae…I’ll grant you that one.

I have no secret agenda. Not looking to catch you in a lie or a misleading comment. I am not looking to convert you from your beliefs or convert myself to being catholic. I have been taught (I think I may have said this more than once on this thread alone) that the catholic church was a cult and evil. Knowing that everyone here is a christian I knew this was not the case so I am here to learn more and to build a bridge of understanding between the catholic path and mine (non-denominational).

Fair enough, as long as you are willing to accept what you are being told as the truth…

As for the title of this thread I was merely trying to convey that EVERY catholic I have ever met claims that protestants are out to attack them, bash them and the catholic faith, and generally make them feel stupid in their beliefs

As is normally the case. I have experienced much of this myself. Yet, I have NEVER criticised or demeaned any person for their beliefs…and in fact, you will rarely ever see a Catholic criticise or demean another person for their beliefs. We have no need to do so and have no interest in doing so. However, in the past few years, it seems that it has actually become “very politically correct” to attack and express hatred to and of Catholics… And you wonder why some of us are “sensitive” where this issue is concerned?

. But in the short time that I was on this board, a catholic board, I had seen a ton of messages that had catholics bashing protestantism.

Would you be so kind as to point out specifically who and when said those things? Or are you being overly sensitive to observations and constructive criticisms?

Kind of hypocritical. You can’t cry and be a victim and then turn around and do the same to someone else.

Again, please skip the generalities and give specifics. I spend most of my time lurking, and believe me (or not) when I say… We Catholics do not bash non-Catholics in any way shape or form or to any degree as Protestants do us. And believe this as gospel…
I can furnish you tons of links, to websites, forums…etc that will bear this out.

Now, if you continue in your posts to make it sound like you are belittleing me, taking my posts out of context, and/or make it sound like I am attacking without trying to see what I mean before you jump all over me I will reserve my right not to answer you.

I might suggest that you discard the “victim attitude” and just be straight up, I haven’t belittled you, or taken any of your posts out of context… As to whether you are attacking me…thats a situation I have no worries over If you want people to see what you mean, try avoiding being obtuse and ask direct questions. As to whether or not you choose to answer me…that is your right, just as it is mine in your case. Its a two way street.

I have tried to be respectful and I expect the same from you.

Ok… I have so far and will continue doing so. As long as you do. Just be certain not to read any emotion or anything extra into anything and don’t approach what is said with any preconceived notions…

Before responding…you might want to read the information posted at this link. Its not a short read, but it may answer some of your questions:

envoymagazine.com/backissues/0.1/solved.htm

I would like to take credit for finding this link but another fellow did it in another forum here.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Would you be so kind as to point out specifically who and when said those things? Or are you being overly sensitive to observations and constructive criticisms?

Please, I am not going to be pulled into that blame game. I know you are going to say that since I am unwilling to offer evidence of my claim that I am lying or being ‘overly sensitive’ but I am not going to pick on people for their statements. That just perpetuates the cycle and I, for one, don’t want to be part of it. There was even a point where some of the posts in this very thread had to be removed because of the not-so-nice comments being made in my direction for my views. And I wasn’t even the one that complained, it was one of my catholic brothers or sisters, so I highly doubt you could call me ‘overly sensitive’.

I don’t know if this is your intention but I get the feeling you are trying to bait me into something… Not sure why you would want to do this but you probably aren’t going to get your desired response… shrug

 

[scylla]

So SinginB, wanna talk about something new? Have we beaten this to death?

I am still here just hanging here waiting to see what I can contribute to the forums, since it is a slow day at work.

Scylla

 

[RobHom]

Singinbeauty:

Please, I am not going to be pulled into that blame game. I know you are going to say that since I am unwilling to offer evidence of my claim that I am lying or being ‘overly sensitive’ but I am not going to pick on people for their statements.

Beyond the fact that you have absolutely no earthly idea what I am going to say, and there is no blame game. I’m not going to say that you are overly sensitive… but if you want to toss a hot potato around for a while…it would be quite easy for me to allege that you already were playing the blame game by making very general statements… So, instead of doing that… why don’t you just ask the questions about what we believe and why we believe it and we can stop beating around the bush?

That just perpetuates the cycle and I, for one, don’t want to be part of it. There was even a point where some of the posts in this very thread had to be removed because of the not-so-nice comments being made in my direction for my views. And I wasn’t even the one that complained, it was one of my catholic brothers or sisters, so I highly doubt you could call me ‘overly sensitive’.

Be that as it may, I had no part in it, and would have been one of the first to criticise anyone who did attack you for your beliefs.

I don’t know if this is your intention but I get the feeling you are trying to bait me into something… Not sure why you would want to do this but you probably aren’t going to get your desired response… shrug

That is precisely what I mean by “preconceived notions”…you automatically “expect to be baited”… and get defensive. Yet you wonder why Catholics get defensive? Hmmmm… ? It would be far better if you got off the defensive and asked your questions. I have no interest in baiting you. Nothing in it for me, nothing at all. I’m just waiting for the shoe to drop or for you to ask questions… I’m sure everyone here is just as eager as I am to answer your questions.

Did you happen to check out that link I gave you?

Here’s another one that will answer many of your questions, actually two of them:

envoymagazine.com/backissues/1.3/allscripture.html
and
envoymagazine.com/backissues/1.4/faithofourfathers.html

I may engage in “spirited” debates, but baiting, castigating, villifying, insulting and such are not traits in my personality.
I may take you to task on issues of theology and scripture, but I will never attack you personally… So set aside your worries in that area, ok?

 

[kim_wilson]

BEAUTY QUOTE:
He has established ONE TRUE CHURCH. Christianity. True christianity not the bogus kind that seek to pull Him out of the limelight. (And before you jump… I am not including the catholic church in this ‘bogus’ category) WE are His church
END QUOTE

Hey thanks for not including Catholics in the bogus category!! Jesus indeed shines in the limelight—He is the source and summit of our faith.

There are thousands of thousands of different denominations. They all have different interpretations of Scripture----some glaring differences, some small. The people who founded these churches believed the Holy Spirit was truly leading them. Was HE truly leading them all in truth? Or is God the author of confusion?

Perhaps you believe there are different truths for different people. In that case, you just find the church whose truth is comforting to you and that agrees with your logic. Choosing a church then becomes an ego adventure. Sort of like shopping for the dress that is really you. And how well I know—I’ve tried on Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Unitarian, Unity, Assembly of God, and several non-denom dresses!

 

[Singinbeauty]

Beyond the fact that you have absolutely no earthly idea what I am going to say, and there is no blame game. I’m not going to say that you are overly sensitive… but if you want to toss a hot potato around for a while…it would be quite easy for me to allege that you already were playing the blame game by making very general statements… So, instead of doing that… why don’t you just ask the questions about what we believe and why we believe it and we can stop beating around the bush?

I don’t know if you realize that you keep bringing up this point but haven’t looked around for other threads that I have started with the questions I have. If you do a search you will see that I indeed have asked some of my questions. This thread was not for that. This thread was to bring up the point of catholics beating on protestants just as much as protestants beating on them. And many catholics on this thread (if you were to actually read this thread) agree with me that they can be just as bad. All I am saying is if BOTH sides were to drop the wounded act and begin to listen to eachother we just might have a chance of getting the ‘world’ to respect the christian faith more because all it see’s is how christians like to beat on eachother.

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

Singinbeauty, welcome to the forums!

if BOTH sides were to drop the wounded act and begin to listen to eachother we just might have a chance of getting the ‘world’ to respect the christian faith more because all it see’s is how christians like to beat on eachother.

Very true! The world definitely sees a divided Church. If all of us would be able to have respectful discussions of our differences, it would greatly increase the respect the rest of the world has for us.

I will say that most of the Catholics on these forums are actually very respectful to those who ask questions about the Catholic faith. I know that has always been the case with me. When I first came to these forums a couple months ago, I knew almost nothing about Catholicism (and much of what I thought I knew turned out to be wrong). Now, I know far more than I did before. In fact, I learned so much, I continued my search outside the forums, buying books and even going to Mass (once so far, and I hope to go again this Sunday). So, if you want to really learn about Catholicism, this forum (plus the tracts in the CA library) is a great place to start.

I think the biggest issue in this thread seems to be a stating and restating of the Catholic and Protestant views of interpretation and authority. There seems to be a good deal of confusion as you explain your views and the Catholics explain theirs. For example, I’ll go back to post 148.

Originally Posted by kim wilson
Beauty,
If you come to an “unlucky” disagreement about what Scripture teaches, what will you do?

You answered with:

I never said I disagree with what the SCRIPTURE teaches… Where did you get that??? I said I may disagree with the approach that the pastor takes with the scriptures.

kim wilson is not suggesting that you disagree with what the Scripture teaches, but she was wondering how you resolve disagreements between you and your pastor about what the Scripture teaches.

kim wilson’s second statement follows:

How will you know who the Holy Spirit is truly guiding–you or your pastor?

This question is the big question, the core issue, if you will. Protestants believe that the Holy Spirit will guide them in their interpretation of the Bible. Catholics say the problem with this is that everyone seems to be guided to a different conclusion. If two Protestants disagree about the meaning of a passage of Scripture, what does this mean, since they’re both guided in the same way? As you say:

It is a quandry isn’t it. All I can know is what I feel and hear in my heart. That’s all I can go off of. I believe that the Holy Spirit is leading me when I may disagree with something that is being taught just as I believe it was the Holy Spirit that told me to run away from that church I spoke of before. The Holy Spirit does convict me when my pastor speaks on something in my life that I may be doing that isn’t so good for my walk.

The problem with this, as Catholics would say, is that while you believe the Holy Spirit is leading you when you disagree with what is being taught, so also the pastor believes the Holy Spirit is leading him when he teaches (unless he is deliberately teaching falsehood, which is hopefully never the case). Mormons believe the Book of Mormon is true because of a “burning in their bosom,” a *feeling * that it is true. Now, Catholics and Protestants alike can agree that Mormons are incorrect in this belief. That being said, how is this different than *feeling * that a passage of Scripture has a certain meaning? A person can make themselves believe almost anything, and what one believes to be the Holy Spirit might rather be one’s own inclination to want to believe a certain way.

This is why Catholics believe in the necessity of authority. They believe authority was given from Christ to Peter and then handed down to Peter’s successors. They believe the Holy Spirit will keep the Pope (Peter’s successor) from proclaiming false doctrine. They trust the Church because Christ established it and said the gates of Hell would not overcome it. So, when the Church declares doctrine or an interpretation of Scripture, Catholics accept it.

Now, this does not mean that Catholics blindly accept the teachings of their priest. An individual priest is quite capable of error. It is the responsibility of Catholics to study the beliefs of the Church so they will know their priest is teaching correctly.

Anyway, I really need to get some sleep, so I will have to end this for now. Hopefully, this helped explain things a bit.

Peace be with you all. God Bless!

 

[RobHom]

Singinbeauty:

I don’t know if you realize that you keep bringing up this point but haven’t looked around for other threads that I have started with the questions I have

Oh, I’ve spotted a couple…so whats your point?

If you do a search you will see that I indeed have asked some of my questions.

A couple, yes, thats true.

This thread was not for that. This thread was to bring up the point of catholics beating on protestaeny your chargesnts just as much as protestants beating on them

Was it to establish a fact or gather a concensus?

. And many catholics on this thread (if you were to actually read this thread) agree with me that they can be just as bad

Lets re-adjust that generalized statement to say that “some posters here seemed to agree with you”. I certainly did not, and frankly would vehemently deny what you are alleging.

. All I am saying is if BOTH sides were to drop the wounded act and begin to listen to eachother we just might have a chance of getting the ‘world’ to respect the christian faith more because all it see’s is how christians like to beat on eachother.

And I would say is that if “christians” of the protestant persuasions were to get off their supposed “we are the only one who are right soap boxes and were it not politically correct to bash Catholics…there might actually be a remote chance that there would be a chance of anything”. "Getting the world to “respect” the christian faith is far more different than respecting “Catholicism”. While some may disagree with me, I will openly state that there is a “significant difference” in the vernacular meanings of “christian” and “Catholic”. The word “christian” for the most part has been hijacked, abused, maligned and become a word that in some cases is scorned. I, for one, do not refer to myself as a christian…but as a Catholic, because I do not respect the word christian because it has been greatly sullied.

I will further tell you unequivically…and without reservation, that you and millions of others were “lied to by so called christian ministers” who actively spread lies and hatred about Catholics and Catholicism. And sucked it up and accepted it as “gospel” and helped to spread the lies as well.

Look around you…you have christian ministers advocating murder…Robertson for one, and there are others… you have 36,000 protestant denominations all of whom who declare the other 35,999 to be wrong!! Where are are you going to build a bridge… in your back yard? Or are you wrongfully expecting Catholics to make all the concessions to make you all happy?

There is more hatemongering and outright slander against Catholics than you can imagine, with the bulk of it encouraged and supported by “protestant ministers”.

What you wrongly perceive as a “wounded victim” attitude is actually an angry and indignant yet restrained response to the lies and hatred and drivel spewed by so called christians…

Just to fill you in on where I am in life, I am a “senior citizen” who was raised in the south…and have put up with this nonsense all of my life…so don’t make the mistake of expecting me to soft pedal the issue.

If you think I am harsh, challenge me on issues regarding my faith.

I sincerely hope that you truly listen to the Holy Ghost and truly allow yourself to be guided by Him to find the real truth.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Wow… There seems to be a lot of pain in your posts. I don’t know why there is the ‘hatred’ for those who are not catholic but something tells me that you need to let go. Like it or not you are my brother in Christ. And I love you because of that. Although I cannot make all of your hatred for protestants go away I hope to at least shine the light on the fact that we aren’t all catholic bashers…

RobHom:

Oh, I’ve spotted a couple…so whats your point?

My point was that you kept telling me to stop beating around the bush and ask my questions even though I had already asked them in the form of another thread. If you want to know my questions read the threads and answer whatever you feel necessary.

Was it to establish a fact or gather a concensus?

What does it matter? Actually, I was merely pointing it out to bring a thread of unity between the catholic and protestant posters. To show that there is pain on both sides.

Lets re-adjust that generalized statement to say that “some posters here seemed to agree with you”. I certainly did not, and frankly would vehemently deny what you are alleging.

We don’t need to re-adjust anything. Why do you think I stated that ‘MANY’ not ‘ALL’ catholic posters had agree’d with me?

And I would say is that if “christians” of the protestant persuasions were to get off their supposed “we are the only one who are right soap boxes and were it not politically correct to bash Catholics…there might actually be a remote chance that there would be a chance of anything”. "Getting the world to “respect” the christian faith is far more different than respecting “Catholicism”. ** While some may disagree with me, I will openly state that there is a “significant difference” in the vernacular meanings of “christian” and “Catholic”. ** The word “christian” for the most part has been hijacked, abused, maligned and become a word that in some cases is scorned. I, for one, do not refer to myself as a christian…but as a Catholic, because I do not respect the word christian because it has been greatly sullied.

Well, I would believe that you ARE going to have some disagreement with your ‘Catholics are not christians’ statement… shrug But you have to understand that if you are going to be catholic and claim that the catholic church of today is the same one that Jesus established 2000yrs ago then you would have to call yourself ‘christian’ because that is what the followers were named back then. And ‘catholic’ has had it’s share of abuse don’t you think… being connected to the crusades and even more recently with the child molestation cases, I would think that the catholic church may not be the most comfortable church to be associated with. So christian or catholic, however you choose to present yourself, there are still negative (MAJOR negative) things attached to both.

I will further tell you unequivically…and without reservation, that you and millions of others were “lied to by so called christian ministers” who actively spread lies and hatred about Catholics and Catholicism. And sucked it up and accepted it as “gospel” and helped to spread the lies as well.

I don’t deny this statement. There are those who are actively seeking to ‘bring down the catholic church’ with lies that are spread. But not EVERY protestant is doing this. If I did accept it as ‘gospel’ as you claim that I have, would I be here trying to learn the truth? Hmmmmmm… And furthermore there are some catholics who are spreading horrible rumors and lies about protestants. shrug

Look around you…you have christian ministers advocating murder…Robertson for one, and there are others… you have 36,000 protestant denominations all of whom who declare the other 35,999 to be wrong!! Where are are you going to build a bridge… in your back yard? Or are you wrongfully expecting Catholics to make all the concessions to make you all happy?

Hmmmmm… I seem to remember, back a few posts or so ago, saying that I am NON-DENOMINATIONAL. But if you didn’t hear me… I AM NON-DENOMINATIONAL. Unfortunately because we have, apparently, only two sides to christianity… the catholics and the protestants… I am lumped into the ‘protestant’ group because, well, I am not catholic. Does that mean I associate myself with all the crazy denom’s? NO… I reject all denoms because most, if not all, are corrupt in some MAJOR way. And where did I EVER said I expected catholics to do anything other than talk with me and help me understand their side and view of things?

There is more hatemongering and outright slander against Catholics than you can imagine, with the bulk of it encouraged and supported by “protestant ministers”.

Ok.

Continued below…