Catholics need to stop using the "33,000 denominations" apologetic device

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Ridgerunner said:
I guess it depends on how one defines a “denomination”. If it means a congregation that has its own doctrine and teachings, I would say there are probably 33,000 in the Ozarks (where I live) alone.

I want to clear up on thing. Generally speaking, preachers do not determine the teachings of any given denomination or congregation. (Lots of congregations are their own denomination). Among many, the congregation actually determines it and chooses a preacher who either believes the same thing or is at least willing to go along with it. Congregations can fire preachers, and often do, if he departs from the consensus in the congregation.

And sometimes preachers aren’t graduates of any divinity school or anything at all. Sometimes they’re just members of the congregation who turn out to be the preacher by default or force of personality. Among the non-denominationals, which are always split-offs from other congregations, sometimes the leader of the 'revolt" in the earlier congregation becomes the preacher in the new one.
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May your opening sentence be preserved in letters of gold.
 
Church_Militant said:
The problem is how can they all be members of one body when they so widely vary in their interpretations of scripture, doctrine and practice?

The only way n-Cs can really make that work is to treat correct doctrine as unimportant along with their “ordinances” since they have no sacraments. It’s an illogical and unbiblical situation as I see it.🤷
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Actually some of us do have sacraments 🤷
 
GKC said:
Even so…no sacraments? No baptism or matrimony?
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I think he meant They don’t call them sacraments, and they don’t believe they are sacraments. They actually are though.
 
dmar198 said:
I think he meant They don’t call them sacraments, and they don’t believe they are sacraments. They actually are though.
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Could have been the intent of the post (so to speak), yes.

Folks baptized with the Trinitarian formula and water are not routinely baptized if they covert to the RCC. Though some sub conditione baptisms might be done, with respect to converts, from prudence, if things are unclear.

OTOH, you can find all sorts of folk not RC or Orthodox, who will call all 7 sacraments, sacraments.
 
GKC said:
Could have been the intent of the post (so to speak), yes.

Folks baptized with the Trinitarian formula and water are not routinely baptized if they covert to the RCC. Though some sub conditione baptisms might be done, with respect to converts, from prudence, if things are unclear.

OTOH, you can find all sorts of folk not RC or Orthodox, who will call all 7 sacraments, sacraments.
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Are they covert when converting because they are scared of friends and family knowing they have become Catholic? 😉
 
I can truly say that there are millions of denominations, if not over a billion. There is a simple litmus test from the New Testament to make the determination.
 
Duane1966 said:
I can truly say that there are millions of denominations, if not over a billion. There is a simple litmus test from the New Testament to make the determination.
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Could be, as far as I can affirm.

Or some other number.
 
JustaServant said:
I think perhaps a better avenue of debate would be to replace the word ‘denomination’ with ‘authority’. Which authority is a church under? Are there 33,000 ‘authorities’ out there?

Just MHO, if a guy hangs us a shingle, saying there is a ‘church’ at that location (ain’t America great), and HE is the authority. That is not a denomination, that is a cult.
To lump him together with the Episcopal or Methodist down the road seems disingenuous.
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Well, that’s pretty much what independent Baptist and others do. And most aren’t cultish and out there in left field like Westboro Baptist is. So they would rightly take offense to being labeled as a cult. If you live in the backwoods of Arkansas in a sparsely populated area, that Church may be the only thing in site for many, many miles.

If the official denominations number is in the thousands, and it most certainly IS, then that is still far too many, imo.

The fact of the matter is, even the cults are at least a semi-product of SS and lack of any real genuine authority. So I have no problem repeating whatever number that well known and respected apologists like J. Martignoni say it is. He’s employed by EWTN for a reason.

Pax
 
Lenten_ashes said:
Well, that’s pretty much what independent Baptist and others do. And most aren’t cultish and out there in left field like Westboro Baptist is. So they would rightly take offense to being labeled as a cult. If you live in the backwoods of Arkansas in a sparsely populated area, that Church may be the only thing in site for many, many miles.

If the official denominations number is in the thousands, and it most certainly IS, then that is still far too many, imo.

The fact of the matter is, even the cults are at least a semi-product of SS and lack of any real genuine authority. So I have no problem repeating whatever number that well known and respected apologists like J. Martignoni say it is. He’s employed by EWTN for a reason.

Pax
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I completely agree!!!🙂
 
Lenten_ashes said:
Well, that’s pretty much what independent Baptist and others do. And most aren’t cultish and out there in left field like Westboro Baptist is. So they would rightly take offense to being labeled as a cult. If you live in the backwoods of Arkansas in a sparsely populated area, that Church may be the only thing in site for many, many miles.

If the official denominations number is in the thousands, and it most certainly IS, then that is still far too many, imo.

The fact of the matter is, even the cults are at least a semi-product of SS and lack of any real genuine authority. So I have no problem repeating whatever number that well known and respected apologists like J. Martignoni say it is. He’s employed by EWTN for a reason.

Pax
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Most IFBs are connected to one of the three ‘big three’ colleges: Bob Jones, Hyles-Anderson, or Liberty U. If not, one of the satellite colleges. To be fair, most stay within the orbit of those colleges. Only the Hyles grads seemed susceptible to cultish behavior. LU and BJ grads didn’t. But there are exceptions.
 
I understand to some degree why people want to use this number. There are many to be sure. I’ve always said the best testament to why SS does not work is to simply open up your phone book (do we still have those?). But the 33,000 number is problematic and over-inflated for the purpose of criticizing the other side.
There is one other aspect that has not been considered: The fact that ‘many denominations’ appears to be an American phenomenon.
 
Duane1966 said:
I can truly say that there are millions of denominations, if not over a billion. There is a simple litmus test from the New Testament to make the determination.
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I highly doubt 1 in 7 people on Earth have their own Christian denomination. :rolleyes:

This is complete hyperbole.
 
Padres1969 said:
I highly doubt 1 in 7 people on Earth have their own Christian denomination. :rolleyes:

This is complete hyperbole.
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Yeah, I saw that too. Decided not to reply. I mean…some things you just cannot respond to.
 
Padres1969 said:
I highly doubt 1 in 7 people on Earth have their own Christian denomination. :rolleyes:

This is complete hyperbole.
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Busy right now, but I will post my reasoning for my statement tonight. I believe the number to be much higher than 1 in 7. I base my reasoning from something Jesus says. Not intending to be hyperbolic in any way.
 
Padres1969 said:
I highly doubt 1 in 7 people on Earth have their own Christian denomination. :rolleyes:

This is complete hyperbole.
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I believe Duane is trying to say that there are millions (if not billions) of people who are their own authority and their own “pope,” even if they are members of the Catholic Church, an Anglican Church, agnostic, Muslim, Jewish, etc.

Many people don’t like to submit to the authority and follow their own conscience (even if sinful) instead of following the teachings of their religion.

So I think he’s saying that there are millions (if not billions) of denominations of 1
 
JustaServant said:
I understand to some degree why people want to use this number. There are many to be sure. I’ve always said the best testament to why SS does not work is to simply open up your phone book (do we still have those?). But the 33,000 number is problematic and over-inflated for the purpose of criticizing the other side.
There is one other aspect that has not been considered: The fact that ‘many denominations’ appears to be an American phenomenon.
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Just open phone books from across America and you’ll get over 30,000. Thank you for showing us an easier way to prove this. While your looking, notice how many Catholic Churches are there.
 
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