Catholics need to submit themselves to Allah

[R_not]

any muslim can creat a theory against us as well. Saying we adobped the pagan son god, thus calling Jesus the Son of God and ect…

I thought we were above that, but appearntly not all of us are…

They can, and do, say whatever they want. The truth is that they squirm and use it as an excuse all the time - basically for 1400 years and still going strong.

They have also commands in their koran to kill the polytheists and if they started to understand Christianity and stop calling them polytheists, they would have to stop persecuting and killing Christians. I don’t see that happening. They kill for allah, they are commanded to do it, and it won’t stop anytime soon.

 

[R_not]

Actually it is neccessary to fully grasp the mystery of the Trininty in order to say Muslims dont worship the same God. Jesus said not everyone who says lord lord unto me will enter My Kingdom, but the one that does the will of my Father. There is SO MUCH mystery in the concept of God, that our limited minds will never truly understand what and who God is. So if Muslims confess to themselves that there is only one God, and that God is the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus then yes...they believe in the same God. Therefore only because someone denies the Son, dosent mean they fully reject His Father for even you yourself can`t explain to nobody what the Holy Trininty is. This also means their doctrine does indeed matter.

You keep trying to make some correlation between the God of Israel and allah. Sorry, there is no correlation. the only similarity is that they worship one god.

The message of the koran completely contradicts the Bible. The message of the koran contradicts itself quite often. The message of the koran was used quite often for mohammed’s own lusts, greed and bloodlust. And there was no sign from God that mohammed was a prophet. It was all a self-proclaimed prophethoood from mohammed.

mohammed also based his screwed up versions of the Bible stories on him saying the Bible was corrupted. There is no proof, nothing. Only mohammed who couldn’t read or write and was a pagan for the first 40 years of his life. Well, he was a pagan his whole life technically since allah is only the moon god revised in a perverted way that mohammed molded it.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

You keep trying to make some correlation between the God of Israel and allah. Sorry, there is no correlation. the only similarity is that they worship one god.

The message of the koran completely contradicts the Bible. The message of the koran contradicts itself quite often. The message of the koran was used quite often for mohammed’s own lusts, greed and bloodlust. And there was no sign from God that mohammed was a prophet. It was all a self-proclaimed prophethoood from mohammed.

mohammed also based his screwed up versions of the Bible stories on him saying the Bible was corrupted. There is no proof, nothing. Only mohammed who couldn’t read or write and was a pagan for the first 40 years of his life. Well, he was a pagan his whole life technically since allah is only the moon god revised in a perverted way that mohammed molded it.

Yes, I did say Mohammad used Gods name for his own lust, greed, and bloodlust. But like I said, Islam is classified as an “Abrahmic” religion, regardless of what your conspiracy states.

Muslims believe in the God of Jesus, not just “one” God, that is their doctrine. Or are you insisting that Muslims lie among themselves when they confess that?

I am also aware the message of the Koran contradicts the Bible, but there is a lot of similarities within the doctrines. And that`s what matters the most.

 

[abirdrrl]

]I will not worship a MOON god who has three goddess daughters.

lol, Muslims refuse to worship a moon god with three goddess daughters too. Yay you both have common ground now!

 

[abirdrrl]

Do Muslims believe in the divinity of Christ? Catholics worship the trinity so if Muslims do no then we do not worship the same God.

Then I guess Jews don’t worship the same god as the Roman Catholics, nor did Moses, Abraham, Adam, …

 

[R_not]

Yes, I did say Mohammad used Gods name for his own lust, greed, and bloodlust. But like I said, Islam is classified as an “Abrahmic” religion, regardless of what your conspiracy states.

Muslims believe in the God of Jesus, not just “one” God, that is their doctrine. Or are you insisting that Muslims lie among themselves when they confess that?

I am also aware the message of the Koran contradicts the Bible, but there is a lot of similarities within the doctrines. And that`s what matters the most.

Using a big word of, ‘conspiracy’ theory, is just hogwash. All one has to do is crack open a koran and read it. Read the hadiths. Read islamic history. And you can figure it out for yourself too. I will not accept ANYONE telling me that islam is of the same level as Judaism or Christianity - and it is NOT A SIN TO DO SO.

No, they are just mindlessly repeating what they are told to say.

Please provide the similarities of the doctrine of the koran. Every story you will provide has been warped in ways by mohammed because he didn’t have a clue as to what the Bible said. He was illiterate and he was a pagan - not a Christian and not a Jew.

Here is the theology of the koran:
-predestination
-salvation by works (of which they don’t even know if this bypasses predestination)

It is the opposite of what the Bible teaches and this means there is no correlation.

islam_doc

 

[buffalo]

If the OP means submit to the will of the God of Abraham then we are all doing just that.

However,

Muslims Worship the One True God
Only Their ‘Receiving Apparatus’ Is Defective

 

[chris_molter]

The Church seems to think the Muslims worship the God of Abraham (aka, God the Father).

From Lumen Gentium:

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

and Nostra Aetate:

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

aaaaand that’s good enough for me.

 

[Among_Strangers]

“There is no God but Allah. He is neither begotten nor begets.”

In this context I will not, and cannot, submit to the “Allah” in the above sentiment - which I believe is the Muslim standard point of faith.

When “Allah” is used in a general context to mean “God,” the One God that there is; then of course I have no problem with it.

The thing is I live in the USA and the social context I find myself in does not relegate to using “Allah” in a context that would not be misconstrued into the Muslim standard point in faith.

I believe that any poster on the forums that seeks to make a point that people profess to the idea of submission to God in the phrase “submit to Allah” is simply having a wee bit of fun in making Christians pronounce a Muslim Creed. Because of that, I cannot.

 

[R_not]

If the OP means submit to the will of the God of Abraham then we are all doing just that.

However,

Muslims Worship the One True God
Only Their ‘Receiving Apparatus’ Is Defective

Can you provide the Bible quotes that say God is a liar and a deceiver?

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”

Bukhari:V2B24N555 “I heard the Prophet say, ‘Allah hates for you for asking too many questions.’”

Qur’an 5:41 “Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them.”

Here we have allah willingly leading people astray:Qur’an 40:32 “O my People! I fear a Day when there will be mutual wailing. No one shall defend you against Allah. Any whom Allah causes to err, there is no guide. That is how Allah leads the skeptic astray.”

Ishaq:248 “Allah has sealed their hearts and their hearing, blinding them so that they will never find guidance. And that is because they have declared you a liar and they do not believe in what has come down from their Lord to you even though they believe in all that came down before you. For opposing you they will have an awful punishment.”
Qur’an 2:6 “As for the disbelievers, it is the same whether you warn them or not; they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts, upon their hearing, and a covering over their eyes. There is a great torment for them.”
Qur’an 2:9 “They deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realize (it) not! In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease. Grievous is the painful doom they (incur) because they (lie).”
Qur’an 8:18 “This and surely; Allah weakens the deceitful plots of unbelieving infidels.”

it goes on and on with this sort of thing from their allah/mohammed.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

There we have it. Moses, Adam, Abraham did not believe in the Holy Trinity like we do, yet we consider them Prophets. Mohammed does the same thing, however he is evil. But this dose not mean he was still a pagan after he created Islam. That is just a lie. I told you R_not its the doctrines that both faiths have is whats important. The Koran and the Bible do contradict, but like I said “we all worship the same God” John Paul II

 

[Benjamin8o8]

“There is no God but Allah. He is neither begotten nor begets.”

In this context I will not, and cannot, submit to the “Allah” in the above sentiment - which I believe is the Muslim standard point of faith.

When “Allah” is used in a general context to mean “God,” the One God that there is; then of course I have no problem with it.

The thing is I live in the USA and the social context I find myself in does not relegate to using “Allah” in a context that would not be misconstrued into the Muslim standard point in faith.

I believe that any poster on the forums that seeks to make a point that people profess to the idea of submission to God in the phrase “submit to Allah” is simply having a wee bit of fun in making Christians pronounce a Muslim Creed. Because of that, I cannot.

What?? Where am I trying to make Christians pronounce a Muslim Creed. Did I tell you “There is no God but Allah. He is neither begotten nor begets.”? why add words to my post?

 

[R_not]

There we have it. Moses, Adam, Abraham did not believe in the Holy Trinity like we do, yet we consider them Prophets. Mohammed does the same thing, however he is evil. But this dose not mean he was still a pagan after he created Islam. That is just a lie. I told you R_not its the doctrines that both faiths have is whats important. The Koran and the Bible do contradict, but like I said “we all worship the same God” John Paul II

I don’t believe you are a Catholic, or a Christian or a Jew.

Abraham, Moses and Adam were before Jesus’ time. Or does that escape you?

They also had the signs of prophethood. And I will make a different post about that. He changed the message so much so that he deleted out the 10 commandments, or even Jesus’ message of love God, love your neighbor and yourself and made up his own commandments of halal, haram and shirk. That is because mohammed broke so many of those commandments (if he even knew them since he was illiterate).

I am asking you to provide the similarties of doctrines. We do not say God is a deciever, or that predestination is part of Christianity and Judaism.

Stop bashing me - provide some proof.

 

[FCEGM]

why do some people keep sayings things like Allah is not God. Did you not know that Allah is jut another name for God? Even Jesus calls His Father Allah in various Bibles in a different language. I dont get when Catholics on this site keep stating Allah is not God. I can comprehend why a lot of you are unwilling to justify Mohammeds actions, but saying that Muslims worship another God is just bogus to me. Even John Paull II said we all worship the **same** God in front of a Muslim crowd. So whats the deal with that? Only Because Mohammed used the name of Allah to get away with sinful acts, dosent mean other peacful Moslems do the same. They just dont know better. They are Moslems because they have been brought up that way.

I am basically saying that Jews and Muslims worship the Father of Jesus, and I don`t think its fair for anybody else to deny that.

May God Bless all of you.

Benjamin, your points are not without merit, but your phrasing “submit themselves to Allah” presents the relationship as a slave-Master one (Islam), not a child-Father one (Christianity).

 

[R_not]

10 Reasons why islam is not From God

Reason #1:
Islam cannot be from God because the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, did not pass God’s first test for a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs. Muhammad gave no sign as required by God.

Reason #2:
Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad’s teaching does not pass the second test God gave for a prophet. Deuteronomy 13:1-4 tells us that no prophet will bring a revelation that is in conflict with previous revelation. His revelation must agree with the previous revelation of God. Deuteronomy 13:1-4

Reason #3:
Islam cannot be from God because it denies the Godhood of Jesus. In the Qur’an, Muhammad takes great pains to deny the deity of Jesus. It demeans Jesus and makes him just a man. In Philippians, Paul asserts that Jesus existed in the form of God.

Reason #4:
Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad frequently changed his revelations to suit circumstances. The classic example is Muhammad’s teaching on drinking. When he was just beginning to teach, before Muhammad gained a significant following he said that it was alright to drink.

Reason #5:
Islam cannot be from God because its appeal is to man’s lower nature rather than his higher nature. Compare the Biblical appeal of heaven to the Quranic appeal of heaven.

(my comment: Satan cannot offer anything other than the carnal wishes and desires of human beings and this is why all that is offered to those who follow him is a big orgy in heaven - nothing more and a lot less, especially if one is a woman!)

Reason #6:
Islam cannot be from God because its morality is inferior to the morality taught by the New Testament.

Reason #7:
Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon a document, the Qur’an, made after God said revelation was finished.

Reason #8:
Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon the Qur’an which has internal contradictions. Any revelation from God will be consistent within itself.

Reason #9:
Islam cannot be from God because the Qur’an frequently contradicts the Bible.

Reason #10:
Islam cannot be from God because it denies the crucifixion of Jesus.

apostates of islam

They have articles in this website why islam is not from God, and why mohammed was not a prophet. They do not keep following:

"One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a sexual pervert, and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people of his time. Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his followers that it is okay to have sex with their captives and their “right hand possessions” (Quran 33:50) He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia. Muhammad was bereft of human compassion. He was an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way. Muhammad was a narcissist like Hitler, Saddam or Stalin. He was astute and knew how to manipulate people, but his emotional intelligence was less evolved than that of a 6-year-old child. He simply could not feel the pain of others. He brutally massacred thousands of innocent people and pillaged their wealth. His ambitions were big and as a narcissist he honestly believed he is entitled to do as he pleased and commit all sorts of crimes and his evil deeds are justified.

Now you start proving that islam and allah are of the same ilk. PROVE your assertions.

 

[Among_Strangers]

What?? Where am I trying to make Christians pronounce a Muslim Creed. Did I tell you “There is no God but Allah. He is neither begotten nor begets.”? why add words to my post?

Since I didn’t quote your post there isn’t anything added or deleted to it. I said what I wished to say about the topic. You don’t have to agree with it. It’s not like I’d coerce you into saying you believe what I say or anything like that.

“There is no God but Allah. He is neither begotten nor begets.” - Is the main Muslim tenant of faith is it not? Or am I mistaken there?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

10 Reasons why islam is not From God

Reason #1:
Islam cannot be from God because the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, did not pass God’s first test for a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 tells us that God will authenticate those He sends as a prophet by having them perform signs. Muhammad gave no sign as required by God.

Reason #2:
Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad’s teaching does not pass the second test God gave for a prophet. Deuteronomy 13:1-4 tells us that no prophet will bring a revelation that is in conflict with previous revelation. His revelation must agree with the previous revelation of God. Deuteronomy 13:1-4

Reason #3:
Islam cannot be from God because it denies the Godhood of Jesus. In the Qur’an, Muhammad takes great pains to deny the deity of Jesus. It demeans Jesus and makes him just a man. In Philippians, Paul asserts that Jesus existed in the form of God.

Reason #4:
Islam cannot be from God because Muhammad frequently changed his revelations to suit circumstances. The classic example is Muhammad’s teaching on drinking. When he was just beginning to teach, before Muhammad gained a significant following he said that it was alright to drink.

Reason #5:
Islam cannot be from God because its appeal is to man’s lower nature rather than his higher nature. Compare the Biblical appeal of heaven to the Quranic appeal of heaven.

(my comment: Satan cannot offer anything other than the carnal wishes and desires of human beings and this is why all that is offered to those who follow him is a big orgy in heaven - nothing more and a lot less, especially if one is a woman!)

Reason #6:
Islam cannot be from God because its morality is inferior to the morality taught by the New Testament.

Reason #7:
Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon a document, the Qur’an, made after God said revelation was finished.

Reason #8:
Islam cannot be from God because it is based upon the Qur’an which has internal contradictions. Any revelation from God will be consistent within itself.

Reason #9:
Islam cannot be from God because the Qur’an frequently contradicts the Bible.

Reason #10:
Islam cannot be from God because it denies the crucifixion of Jesus.

apostates of islam

They have articles in this website why islam is not from God, and why mohammed was not a prophet. They do not keep following:

Now you start proving that islam and allah are of the same ilk. PROVE your assertions.

I don`t really bother reading anti-Islam sites, I am more interested in the words of John Paul II who got shot by a muslim, and forgave him.

Also, I never said our doctrines match, I only said the belief in the God of Abrham matches. So you`re just basically ranting here against Muslims, even though we are all brothers under God/Allah. I also stated that not all Muslims are Mohammad-alike, take sister Amy for instance. She wakes up very early in the morning (sometimes 4 am in the morning) and prays. This is something I highly tolerate, and I admire her for doing that. I hope one day I will be able to overcome my own laziness and follow the routine of our sister Amy. With that said, ask sister Amy if she wakes early in the morning to pray to a moon-god, if she says no, its pretty clear to me you are filling your head with Islam hate. Sorry, but that is not Christian-like my brother. I hope you too can respect and accept that Jews, Christians, and Muslims are brothers under 1 God.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

Since I didn’t quote your post there isn’t anything added or deleted to it. I said what I wished to say about the topic. You don’t have to agree with it. It’s not like I’d coerce you into saying you believe what I say or anything like that.

“There is no God but Allah. He is neither begotten nor begets.” - Is the main Muslim tenant of faith is it not? Or am I mistaken there?

yes it is, they deny the Holy Trinity, but I already spoke of that.

 

[R_not]

I don`t really bother reading anti-Islam sites, I am more interested in the words of John Paul II who got shot by a muslim, and forgave him.

Also, I never said our doctrines match, I only said the belief in the God of Abrham matches. So you`re just basically ranting here against Muslims, even though we are all brothers under God/Allah. I also stated that not all Muslims are Mohammad-alike, take sister Amy for instance. She wakes up very early in the morning (sometimes 4 am in the morning) and prays. This is something I highly tolerate, and I admire her for doing that. I hope one day I will be able to overcome my own laziness and follow the routine of our sister Amy. With that said, ask sister Amy if she wakes early in the morning to pray to a moon-god, if she says no, its pretty clear to me you are filling your head with Islam hate. Sorry, but that is not Christian-like my brother. I hope you too can respect and accept that Jews, Christians, and Muslims are brothers under 1 God.

Then read your own bible and as far as the Pope goes. He oversteps his boundaries when speaking of another ‘religion’. And it is NOT a sin to know islam, to disagree with the Pope on this matter and IT IS A SIN to worship other Gods, such as allah. In fact, if you read the posts I posted earlier you will read that time and again God warned us of worshiping the sun, MOON, and stars.

I will respect them as human beings but I do not respect islam, nor do I respect their ‘prophet’ or koran. It is a vile religion that had to have its own definitions for sin because so many sins are allowed in islam such as murder, theft, lying, lusting after another’s possessions and women, etc.

I find your excuse for not backing up your assertions just more of the same I get from muslims who cannot deal with others bringing out their own religion’s teachings and who scurry away.

 

[MHalsey]

why do some people keep sayings things like Allah is not God. Did you not know that Allah is jut another name for God? Even Jesus calls His Father Allah in various Bibles in a different language. I dont get when Catholics on this site keep stating Allah is not God. I can comprehend why a lot of you are unwilling to justify Mohammeds actions, but saying that Muslims worship another God is just bogus to me. Even John Paull II said we all worship the **same** God in front of a Muslim crowd. So whats the deal with that? Only Because Mohammed used the name of Allah to get away with sinful acts, dosent mean other peacful Moslems do the same. They just dont know better. They are Moslems because they have been brought up that way.

I am basically saying that Jews and Muslims worship the Father of Jesus, and I don`t think its fair for anybody else to deny that.

May God Bless all of you.

OK, we know that God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If God is Allah, then that means Allah is the Holy Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Therefore, all muslims must worship the Holy Trinity. Try convincing them of that and see how far you get.

As far as islam being an abrahamic religion, it is only so because muslims claim it is. They claim Abraham practiced islam. Yet nowhere in Genesis do we have Abraham practicing anything that muhammed taught. Therefore the claim is a false one.

By their fruit you shall know them. The fruit of islam is butchery, subjugation, misogyny, etc. This is the worship of satan, not God. No matter what name they choose to give him.