Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

[Canto]

Sacred Scripture is not part of Sacred Tradition according to the Catholic Catechism.

97 “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God” (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

Protestants and Catholic agree that Sacred Scripture is the Word of God and is God-breathed. Do Catholics believe that Sacred Tradition is God-Breathed and the Word of God just like Sacred Scripture? Does the Catholic Church really see Sacred Tradition to be equal wih Sacred Scripture?

Some Catholics call the deposit of faith Tradtion (2 Thess 2:15), so in that sense scripture is part of Tradtion (written tradtion c.f. Thess 2:15).

The CCC verse you quoted does not say Scripture is not part of Tradition but often when people think of Tradtion they think of oral tradtion and the Bible thus as written tradtion.

Protestants and Catholics disagree on what Sacred Scripture is. But Tradtion (in the doctrinal sense) is part of the God’s word.

DECREE OF DAMASCUS I, BISHOP OF ROME.
COUNCIL OF ROME, 382 AD.

“It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun.

[He then lists the **46 books of the OT]

Likewise, the list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives.

[He then lists the 27 books of the NT]

Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament.

Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Saviour, who says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

+++

“But when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will teach you all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself: but what things soever He shall hear, He shall speak. And the things that are to come, He shall show you.” - St John:16:13

“We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them, we should have no knowledge of it at all.” - Martin Luther, commentary on St John

St Augustine said he wouln’t believe the Gospel (good news) except for the Catholic Church

 

[Canto]

If you value Sacred Tradition as much as Sacred Scripture, please give me sources and references of Sacred Tradition that you are familar with. I bet you will have troubles finding Sacred Tradition that you know of. I’ll time you. It’s 10:23 PM Pacific Time.

10:23 PM Pacific Time - I live in OZ so that’s gobbledegook to me
Besides like you I have things to do other than sit at a comptuer

2 Thess 2:15 says to hold onto written AND oral tradtion. Do you? That’s what the Bible says, plain as day, none of this metaphorical or yeah but what he means is stuff… it’s as plain as day.

‘For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us their writings? Would it not be necessary to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those whom they did commit the Churches?’ Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3, 4:1 (inter A.D. 180/199).

“Wherefore it is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church…those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the certain gift of truth…” Irenaeus, Against Heresies 26:2 (inter A.D. 180/199).

“In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the Apostles until now, and handed in truth.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,3:3 (inter A.D. 180/199).

“Heretics assent neither to Scripture nor to Tradition.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3,2,1 (inter A.D. 180/199).

“We do not take our scriptural teaching from the parables but we interpret the parables according to our teaching.” Tertullian, Purity 9,1 (c. A.D. 200).

'Let them show the origins of their churches, let them unroll the list of their bishops, through a succession coming down from the very beginning that their first bishop had his authority and predecessor someone from among the number of Apostles or apostolic men and, further, that he did not stray from the Apostles. In this way the apostolic churches present their earliest records. The church of Smyrna, for example, records that Polycarp was named by John; the Romans, that Clement was ordained by Peter. In just the same way, the other churches show who were made bishops by the Apostles and who transmitted the apostolic seed to them. Let the heretics invent something like that. ’ Tertullian, The Prescription Against Heretics 32 (c. A.D. 200).

‘But they, safeguarding the true tradition of the blessed teaching, which comes straight from the Apostles Peter, James, John and Paul and transmitted from father to son have come down to us with the help of God to deposit in us those ancestral and apostolic seeds’ Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 1,11 (c. A.D. 205).

‘For us…having grown old in the Scriptures, preserving the Apostolic and ecclesiastical correctness of doctrine, living a life according to the Gospel, is led by the Lord to discover the proofs from the Law and the prophets which he seeks.’ Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 7,104 (c. A.D. 205).

“The Church’s preaching has been handed down through an orderly succession from the Apostles and remains in the Church until the present. That alone is to be believed as the truth which in no way departs from ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition.” Origen, First Principles 1,2 (c. A.D. 230).

THE EUCHARIST lets see what a few of the father’s holding onto both the written and oral tradtion handed down through the Church have to say about this life of the world giving flesh of Christ.

Note: Christ said this is my flesh for the life of the world (Jn 6:51) if this is metaphorical, is the flesh he gave for the life of the world on the cross also metaphorical.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, c. A.D. 110 (disciple of St John)
‘Follow the bishop, all of you, as Jesus Christ follows his Father, and the presbyterium as the Apostles. As for the deacons, respect them as the Law of God. Let no one do anything with reference to the Church without the bishop. Only that Eucharist may be regarded as legitimate which is celebrated with the bishop or his delegate presiding. Where the bishop is, there let the community be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.’ (Epistle to the Symyrnaens 8)

St. Ignatius of Antioch, c. A.D. 110 (disciple of St John)
I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the Bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire His blood, which is love incorruptible. (Letter to the Romans 7:3)

St. Clement of Alexandria, c. A.D. 150-216
Calling her children about her, she [the Church] nourishes them with holy milk, that is, with the Infant Word…The Word is everything to a child: both Father and Mother, both Instructor and Nurse. “Eat My flesh,” He says, “and drink My blood.” The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutriments. He delivers over His flesh and pours out His blood; and nothing is lacking for the growth of His children. O incredible mystery! (Instructor of Children 1:6:42,1,3)

St. Cyprian of Carthage, c. A.D. 200-258
He Himself warns us, saying, “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood you shall not have life in you.” Therefore do we ask that our Bread, which is Christ, be given to us daily, so that we who abide and live in Christ may not withdraw from His sanctification and from His Body. (The Lord’s Prayer 18)

 

[2nd_Adam]

by the way, your sliced & diced Eisegesis quote of Benedict XVI is a riot, & it’s also funny you leave the link up for all to see, & discover the truth of what the Bishop of Rome really said. It’s like weaving a web of lies but you make it so the light of the truth still shines through. It’s kinda self-contradictory. The pope said, faith alone is true if it isnt against acts of love & charity.

Also, why do you seek to debate the gospel, when it was meant to be heard, learned & spread? Debating the Gospel? It’s like sucker punching my father. You can debate DOCTRINE, but I would never discredit the Gospel of Jesus Christ by seeking to debate it. Helping others to understand it or answer questions, maybe, but debating the Gospel? That is something that a believer & a NON believer would do. Amongst the fellowship of believers, I think it’s crass.

How can I slice and dice Pope Benedict’s teaching on justification by faith alone when I have a link to the entire work? Now, that’s very irrational.

 

[2nd_Adam]

10:23 PM Pacific Time - I live on OZ so that’s gobbledegook to me
Besides like you I have things to do other than sit at a comptuer

2 Thess 2:15 says to hold onto written AND oral tradtion. Do you? That’s what the Bible says, plain as day, none of this metaphorical or yeah but what he means is stuff… it’s as plain as day.

‘For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us their writings? Would it not be necessary to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those whom they did commit the Churches?’ Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3, 4:1 (inter A.D. 180/199).

“Wherefore it is incumbent to obey the presbyters who are in the Church…those who, together with the succession of the episcopate, have received the certain gift of truth…” Irenaeus, Against Heresies 26:2 (inter A.D. 180/199).

“In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the Apostles until now, and handed in truth.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies 3,3:3 (inter A.D. 180/199).

“Heretics assent neither to Scripture nor to Tradition.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3,2,1 (inter A.D. 180/199).

“We do not take our scriptural teaching from the parables but we interpret the parables according to our teaching.” Tertullian, Purity 9,1 (c. A.D. 200).

'Let them show the origins of their churches, let them unroll the list of their bishops, through a succession coming down from the very beginning that their first bishop had his authority and predecessor someone from among the number of Apostles or apostolic men and, further, that he did not stray from the Apostles. In this way the apostolic churches present their earliest records. The church of Smyrna, for example, records that Polycarp was named by John; the Romans, that Clement was ordained by Peter. In just the same way, the other churches show who were made bishops by the Apostles and who transmitted the apostolic seed to them. Let the heretics invent something like that. ’ Tertullian, The Prescription Against Heretics 32 (c. A.D. 200).

‘But they, safeguarding the true tradition of the blessed teaching, which comes straight from the Apostles Peter, James, John and Paul and transmitted from father to son have come down to us with the help of God to deposit in us those ancestral and apostolic seeds’ Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 1,11 (c. A.D. 205).

‘For us…having grown old in the Scriptures, preserving the Apostolic and ecclesiastical correctness of doctrine, living a life according to the Gospel, is led by the Lord to discover the proofs from the Law and the prophets which he seeks.’ Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 7,104 (c. A.D. 205).

“The Church’s preaching has been handed down through an orderly succession from the Apostles and remains in the Church until the present. That alone is to be believed as the truth which in no way departs from ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition.” Origen, First Principles 1,2 (c. A.D. 230).

THE EUCHARIST lets see what a few of the father’s holding onto both the written and oral tradtion handed down through the Church have to say about this life of the world giving flesh of Christ.

Note: Christ said this is my flesh for the life of the world (Jn 6:51) if this is metaphorical, is the flesh he gave for the life of the world on the cross also metaphorical.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, c. A.D. 110 (disciple of St John)
‘Follow the bishop, all of you, as Jesus Christ follows his Father, and the presbyterium as the Apostles. As for the deacons, respect them as the Law of God. Let no one do anything with reference to the Church without the bishop. Only that Eucharist may be regarded as legitimate which is celebrated with the bishop or his delegate presiding. Where the bishop is, there let the community be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.’ (Epistle to the Symyrnaens 8)

St. Ignatius of Antioch, c. A.D. 110 (disciple of St John)
I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the Bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire His blood, which is love incorruptible. (Letter to the Romans 7:3)

St. Clement of Alexandria, c. A.D. 150-216
Calling her children about her, she [the Church] nourishes them with holy milk, that is, with the Infant Word…The Word is everything to a child: both Father and Mother, both Instructor and Nurse. “Eat My flesh,” He says, “and drink My blood.” The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutriments. He delivers over His flesh and pours out His blood; and nothing is lacking for the growth of His children. O incredible mystery! (Instructor of Children 1:6:42,1,3)

St. Cyprian of Carthage, c. A.D. 200-258
He Himself warns us, saying, “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood you shall not have life in you.” Therefore do we ask that our Bread, which is Christ, be given to us daily, so that we who abide and live in Christ may not withdraw from His sanctification and from His Body. (The Lord’s Prayer 18)

Please help me out here. Is the entire contents of the Church Fathers considered to be Sacred Tradition? I know that they have conflicting views with each other. Some of the writings of the Church Fathers support Protestant theology. Here is a link to the Church Fathers from a Reformed website.

reformed.org/documents/index.html

If you are saying that the writing of the early Church Fathers is considered Sacred Tradition, then are you saying that there writings are equivlent to Sacred Scripture and inspired by God too? How do reconcile when the early Church Fathers contradicted each other in their views?

 

[Canto]

Please help me out here. Is the entire contents of the Church Fathers considered to be Sacred Tradition? I know that they have conflicting views with each other. Some of the writings of the Church Fathers support Protestant theology. Here is a link to the Church Fathers from a Reformed website.

The Church fathers are a window. For example oral tradtion states that the bread is Christ’s flesh. If we look to the Bible and the writings of the fathers we can see this tradtion. John ch6 speaks about the Eucharist. Now some say it is symbolic, but when we look to St Ignatius, a disciple of St John, we see that Christ was being literal.

Support Protestant theology - for example.

staycatholic.com/early_church_fathers.htm

newadvent.org/fathers/

 

[2nd_Adam]

The Church father’s are a window. For example oral tradtion states that the bread is Christ’s flesh. If we look to the Bible and the writings of the father’s we can see this tradtion. John ch6 speaks about the Eucharist. Now some say it is symbolic, but when we look to Ignatius, a disciple of St John, we see that Christ was being literal.

Support Protestant theology - for example.

staycatholic.com/early_church_fathers.htm

newadvent.org/fathers/

The other side of early Church Fathers.

justforcatholics.org/a181.htm

How much of this work of Early Church Fathers is considered Sacred Tradition?

monergism.com/early_church_fathers.php

 

[Canto]

The other side of early Church Fathers.

justforcatholics.org/a181.htm

How much of this work of Early Church Fathers is considered Sacred Tradition?

monergism.com/early_church_fathers.php

The first writer must have strained his brain trying to weasel out of the fathers’ words and as I said the fathers are a window.

“He did not say, ‘This is the symbol of My Body, and this, of My Blood,’ but, what is set before us, but that it is transformed by means of the Eucharistic action into Flesh and Blood.” Theodore of Mopsuestia, Commentary on Matthew 26:26 (ante A.D. 428).

AUGUSTINE

ST. AUGUSTINE (c. 354 - 430 A.D.)

“That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, IS THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. Through that bread and wine the Lord Christ willed to commend HIS BODY AND BLOOD, WHICH HE POURED OUT FOR US UNTO THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.” (Sermons 227)

“The Lord Jesus wanted those whose eyes were held lest they should recognize him, to recognize Him in the breaking of the bread [Luke 24:16,30-35]. The faithful know what I am saying. They know Christ in the breaking of the bread. For not all bread, but only that which receives the blessing of Christ, BECOMES CHRIST’S BODY.” (Sermons 234:2)

“What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that THE BREAD IS THE BODY OF CHRIST AND THE CHALICE [WINE] THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.” (Sermons 272)

“How this ‘And he was carried in his own hands’] should be understood literally of David, we cannot discover; but we can discover how it is meant of Christ. FOR CHRIST WAS CARRIED IN HIS OWN HANDS, WHEN, REFERRING TO HIS OWN BODY, HE SAID: ‘THIS IS MY BODY.’ FOR HE CARRIED THAT BODY IN HIS HANDS.” (Psalms 33:1:10)

“Was not Christ IMMOLATED only once in His very Person? In the Sacrament, nevertheless, He is IMMOLATED for the people not only on every Easter Solemnity but on every day; and a man would not be lying if, when asked, he were to reply that Christ is being IMMOLATED.” (Letters 98:9)

“Christ is both the Priest, OFFERING Himself, and Himself the Victim. He willed that the SACRAMENTAL SIGN of this should be the daily Sacrifice of the Church, who, since the Church is His body and He the Head, learns to OFFER herself through Him.” (City of God 10:20)

“By those sacrifices of the Old Law, this one Sacrifice is signified, in which there is a true remission of sins; but not only is no one forbidden to take as food the Blood of this Sacrifice, rather, all who wish to possess life are exhorted to drink thereof.” (Questions on the Heptateuch 3:57)

“Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator is OFFERED for them, or when alms are given in the church.” (Ench Faith, Hope, Love 29:110)

“But by the prayers of the Holy Church, and by the SALVIFIC SACRIFICE, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. FOR THE WHOLE CHURCH OBSERVES THIS PRACTICE WHICH WAS HANDED DOWN BY THE FATHERS that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the Sacrifice itself; and the Sacrifice is OFFERED also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, the works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death.” (Sermons 172:2)

“…I turn to Christ, because it is He whom I seek here; and I discover how the earth is adored without impiety, how without impiety the footstool of His feet is adored. For He received earth from earth; because flesh is from the earth, and He took flesh from the flesh of Mary. He walked here in the same flesh, AND GAVE US THE SAME FLESH TO BE EATEN UNTO SALVATION. BUT NO ONE EATS THAT FLESH UNLESS FIRST HE ADORES IT; and thus it is discovered how such a footstool of the Lord’s feet is adored; AND NOT ONLY DO WE NOT SIN BY ADORING, WE DO SIN BY NOT ADORING.” (Psalms 98:9)

 

[AwGusTeen]

Sacred Scripture is not part of Sacred Tradition according to the Catholic Catechism.

97 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God" (DV 10) in which, as in a mirror, the pilgrim Church contemplates God, the source of all her riches.

If you value Sacred Tradition as much as Sacred Scripture, please give me sources and references of Sacred Tradition that you are familar with. I bet you will have troubles finding Sacred Tradition that you know of. I’ll time you. It’s 10:23 PM Pacific Time.

That’s simple – look at your bible.

 

[elvisman]

The other side of early Church Fathers.

justforcatholics.org/a181.htm

How much of this work of Early Church Fathers is considered Sacred Tradition?

monergism.com/early_church_fathers.php

NONSENSE.
First of all - the Early Church “Father” mentioned on this anti-Catholic site is not even considered to be a Father of the Church! Paschasius Radbertus lived during the 8th and 9th centuries.
The systematic twisting of Agustines words are almost comical - if not tragic.

PS - Care to answer Post #89 or are you just going to evade it?

 

[benidict]

I would enjoy discussing and debating Calvinism with you. Please start a thread and let the fun begin. It will be a motivation for you to read your Bible to try to refute Calvinism with Scripture proofs!

so what would you like to do? discuss the scriptures aside from calvinism? or calvinism aside from the scriptures. i need to know. either we are going to debate calvin or the scriptures. or was calvin infallible? let me know what you want to discuss first. i was raised a calvinist.or you can pick a doctrine and we can use the bible only.works for me. snd yes ill keep it friendly.

 

[Jason_1977]

How can I slice and dice Pope Benedict’s teaching on justification by faith alone when I have a link to the entire work? Now, that’s very irrational.

“The wall is no longer necessary**…** For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true**…**” Pope Benedict XVI

THAT would be where you sliced, diced, & julianned!

It’s one thing to have the entire catechesis, it’s another to butcher it & alter the meaning. You’re spreading lies and false statements like the National Enquirer of Gospel.

 

[2nd_Adam]

so what would you like to do? discuss the scriptures aside from calvinism? or calvinism aside from the scriptures. i need to know. either we are going to debate calvin or the scriptures. or was calvin infallible? let me know what you want to discuss first. i was raised a calvinist.or you can pick a doctrine and we can use the bible only.works for me. snd yes ill keep it friendly.

Let’'s debate TULIIP according to Scripture. Maybe you can start a TULIP thread, or do you prefer to debate on this thread? We should start with the T in Tulip.

 

[2nd_Adam]

“The wall is no longer necessary**…** For this reason Luther’s phrase: “faith alone” is true**…**” Pope Benedict XVI

THAT would be where you sliced, diced, & julianned!

It’s one thing to have the entire catechesis, it’s another to butcher it & alter the meaning. You’re spreading lies and false statements like the National Enquirer of Gospel.

Why do you keep posting this? Just read the entire link.

 

[Stephen168]

so what would you like to do? discuss the scriptures aside from calvinism? or calvinism aside from the scriptures. i need to know. either we are going to debate calvin or the scriptures. or was calvin infallible? let me know what you want to discuss first. i was raised a calvinist.or you can pick a doctrine and we can use the bible only.works for me. snd yes ill keep it friendly.

When was Calvinism invented?

 

[2nd_Adam]

When was Calvinism invented?

According to Charles Spurgeon, it started with the Apostle Paul. I think it started in the mind of God, which He revealed first in the OT and later in the NT.

“The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox’s gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again.”—C. H. Spurgeon

 

[benidict]

Let’'s debate TULIIP according to Scripture. Maybe you can start a TULIP thread, or do you prefer to debate on this thread? We should start with the T in Tulip.

ok we will start with t in tulip. t stands for total depravity. the doctrine that all men are tainted with original sin and cannot will for himself salvation. this was calvins stance correct? just an aside. we are really debating between calvinism and arminianism. if what calvin said was correct then how come he disagrees with Jesus who said come ye who are weary and heavy laden and i will give you rest. sounds like an open invitation to me. or where it is written that God wills that all men come unto him and be saved. also dont forget paul talking about those who have not heard but had enough evidence from nature to be held responsible. i can find you many more examples and if you need chapter and verse with context i can give you those to. again ill just use the bible. i do not wish to write a whole chapter and fill up a whole page so we can just take it a step at a time to give others space. lot more to write on this subject alone. this is just a brief summary. your turn.p.s. im not a college grad so plz excuse me if i dont come across as super educated. im not

 

[benidict]

Hello bookgirl, I caught Adam’s drift early in September when he started his thread, ‘Eucharist,please help me understand’. I Believed at the time he was sincere in wanting to understand our faith.Now after posting almost 1400 hundred posts in just a couple of months time he is still playing his game. Having lots of fun wasting our time and actualy his own , I believe he must have close to 20 threads off and running since he came to CA. I am wonder ing if he is trying for some kind of record.Carlan

gotta admit tho its fun. no need to get upset at him. he kinda rubs people the wrong way at times but does get the thought process clicking. he seems pretty educated too. have fun with this. who knows maybe he will start studying clements letter to the corinthians. eusibus,and some of the other church fathers and see the truth. at least hes on a forum where he can learn more. im in the army. sometimes we have a guy thats slow. lol. have to be patient with them. treat adam the same way. i sense something deeper in him like hes really searching for something. and in that case we are not wasting our time. we got all the time to make him think:thumbsup:

 

[benidict]

According to Charles Spurgeon, it started with the Apostle Paul. I think it started in the mind of God, which He revealed first in the OT and later in the NT.

“The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox’s gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again.”—C. H. Spurgeon

thats interesting. augustine taught against people who caused schisms calling them anti christ. if you look at what augustine wrote and compare that to say… luther or calvin? well you get my drift

 

[benidict]

When was Calvinism invented?

hi brother stephen. great question. anyhow im in the process of debating this with adam. and im going by his ground rules. sola scripura. gonna be trying to attempt a point. that by only going by our own understanding of the bible with no governing authority its gonna get really interesting… it should also show how so many diverse views have come about in protestantism. they cannot even agree among themselves if calvin or arminius was correct. hail mary full of grace the Lord is with thee. blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of they womb Jesus. Holy mary mother of God. pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.

 

[Stephen168]

According to Charles Spurgeon, it started with the Apostle Paul.

Seems like it would be called Paulism and Paul came after the Twelve Apostles. Does that mean is it different from what the Twelve taught?