Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

[elvisman]

I mentioned this to him as well (about faith working in love which equates to faith and works; too bad Luther didn’t understand this though as it would have saved us a lot of trouble). God bless elvisman.

p.s. How are you doing by the way?

2nd Adam always dodges this when I bring it up. In fact, he avoids almost all confrontation with me. The truth hurts, I guess.

**There have been others on different threads that have pointed out to him that he is misrepresenting the words of BXVI, but he doesn’t care. ****As long as he can spread his own unique brand of confusion, he’s happy. He does the same thing with the Scriptures.
**St. Peter spoke well of people like him when he said of those who misrepresent of St. Paul’s letters:
"In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures" (2 Pet. 3:16).

PS - I’m doing great! I hope you are, too!

 

[Carlan]

Well, I am not coming from an Arminian Protestant persepctive of decisional regeneration.

At the risk of showing my ignorance, I ask you, please tell me in cut and dried simple terms where are you coming from Adam?Carlan

 

[bookgirl32]

So I can’t get a good understanding of your understanding of 2 Peter 1 from just reading 2 Peter 1, huh?

2nd Adam, did you not see this? We were getting into a pretty good discussion, let’s not let it go now!

 

[James_Least]

Is there space here for a Christian who is neither Catholic nor Protestant?

I contend that the Jesus has had a group of followers which He has called out in every generation, starting on the shores of Galilee circa A.D. 30–even through today. He said He would build His Church and that He would never leave Her nor forsake Her. He said He would come back for Her; and that She would be without spot or blemish.(This is a plain Bible teaching.)

This group is not a denomination–it does not originate in Rome or Constantinople, both of which originate with Constantine, the Great.

Luther, Calvin, etal, tried unsuccessfully to reform the holy see. My faith, practice and history does not go through the holy see–never has. We have been called heretics by many “Christians” including the “protestants”, so-called. Just who the real heretics might be is an interesting study–please include more than the Catholic Encycopedia in your bibliography. Remember: history is usually written by the victorious–not necessarily the good guys. God’s people have always had His Word–written in their hearts and their vernacular. Many have died over this fact. The Word was outside the monastaries long before they were built.

This whole “flap” boils to one basic fact: The holy see either has or has not the authority of which it claims. They either have the keys of heaven or they do not. If they are correct, all others are usurpers. If they are wrong, they are the usurpers. How does one reform usurped authority and make it valid-- a counter reformation? The authority is still counterfeit. Vatican II was a reformation of sorts–there seems to be a serious rift between the Latin Rite and the rest of the world. Then there are the “separated brethren”.

The reason this cannot be resolved is that the divine standard is not recognized as solely infallible without the traditions of men alongside. This will always end in confusion. “God is not the author of confusion.” “Let God be found True, and every man a liar” applies.

Where will you be in 100 years?

Selah,

James Least

 

[2nd_Adam]

Ok, here’s the article I was mentioning:

**Luther’s “discovery”

The thought came to him that Paul meant nothing less than that the righteousness of God could be made" our own simply by trusting in the righteousness of Christ. Luther thought he had been wasting his time and his efforts in trying to do for himself what Christ had already done for him. A feeling of immense relief swept over him. He felt that he was saved and that he could be saved in no other way than this.

When he began to teach theology, in 1512, he put forward his theory of justification by faith alone, of God’s forgiving love freely bestowed upon all who simply repent of their sins and trust in Christ. He convinced himself that that was the true faith of the Catholic Church, and he tried to combine his new-found doctrine with all other teaching of Catholic theology.

Gradually, however, Luther encountered opposition to his new theory of justification by faith alone. On October 31,1517 he published his 95 Theses, declaring that indulgences destroyed the true spirit of repentance. Called to account, he refused to recant his views unless refuted by biblical evidence itself, refusing to accept the authority and traditional teachings of the Church as reliable sources of doctrine.

catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9304fea1.asp**

Human nature has been totally corrupted by original sin, and man, accordingly, is deprived of free will. Whatever he does, be it good or bad, is not his own work, but God’s.

Faith alone can work justification, and man is saved by confidently believing that God will pardon him. This faith not only includes a full pardon of sin, but also an unconditional release from its penalties.

This is not exactly the same as you mentioned already but sufficiently different to set alarm bells off (who’s right), that being said this should not divide us as Christians.

By the way, remember the quote I said I would find from Martin Luther on the status of society after the introduction of “faith alone”, well I found it. Here it is:

**Martin Luther, as inveterate an enemy of the Catholic Church as ever lived, was forced to admit: “Under the papacy the people were at least charitable, and force was not required to obtain alms. Today, under the reign of the Gospel [by which he meant Protestantism], in place of giving they rob each other, and it might be said that no one thinks he has anything till he gets the possession of the property of his neighbor.” **

Actually, that’s a very good biblical view. I think where Catholics get confused is about how does a saved person look like in the Christian life. We know through 1 John and James chapter 2 , as well as Jesus… that just because someone professes Christ does not mean that they have been united to Christ. You might want to consider looking at the Reformed view of justification by faith alone through imputation, and the Arminian view of decisional regeneration (Charles Finney). They are completely different. To really understannd our differences, you will need to understand a forensic justification by imputation togther with evidence of saving faith in sanctification, and penal subsitution. I believe the Catholic Faith blends the Protestant view of justification and sanctifiction as one process of justification.

 

[2nd_Adam]

2nd Adam always dodges this when I bring it up. In fact, he avoids almost all confrontation with me. The truth hurts, I guess.

There have been others on different threads that have pointed out to him that he is misrepresenting the words of BXVI, but he doesn’t care. As long as he can spread his own unique brand of confusion, he’s happy. He does the same thing with the Scriptures.
**St. Peter spoke well **of people like him when he said of those who misrepresent of St. Paul’s letters:
"In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures" (2 Pet. 3:16).

PS - I’m doing great! I hope you are, too!

I think your bold is considered shouting, which makes me want to avoid you. That’s the main reason most Protestant avoid you. It how you say things. Communication is only as effectual as someone wanting to listen to you. Actually, I’m surprised that you don’t get disciplined or banned from the moderators.

 

[2nd_Adam]

2nd Adam, did you not see this? We were getting into a pretty good discussion, let’s not let it go now!

Why do you think that we understand Peter’s exhortation to us in a different way? We share so much in common. I don’t have to discuss the dual nature of Christ, His incarnation, His sinlessness, His perfect life and sacrifical death. Oops, maybe we do need to discuss the atonement.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Is there space here for a Christian who is neither Catholic nor Protestant?

I contend that the Jesus has had a group of followers which He has called out in every generation, starting on the shores of Galilee circa A.D. 30–even through today. He said He would build His Church and that He would never leave Her nor forsake Her. He said He would come back for Her; and that She would be without spot or blemish.(This is a plain Bible teaching.)

This group is not a denomination–it does not originate in Rome or Constantinople, both of which originate with Constantine, the Great.

Luther, Calvin, etal, tried unsuccessfully to reform the holy see. My faith, practice and history does not go through the holy see–never has. We have been called heretics by many “Christians” including the “protestants”, so-called. Just who the real heretics might be is an interesting study–please include more than the Catholic Encycopedia in your bibliography. Remember: history is usually written by the victorious–not necessarily the good guys. God’s people have always had His Word–written in their hearts and their vernacular. Many have died over this fact. The Word was outside the monastaries long before they were built.

This whole “flap” boils to one basic fact: The holy see either has or has not the authority of which it claims. They either have the keys of heaven or they do not. If they are correct, all others are usurpers. If they are wrong, they are the usurpers. How does one reform usurped authority and make it valid-- a counter reformation? The authority is still counterfeit. Vatican II was a reformation of sorts–there seems to be a serious rift between the Latin Rite and the rest of the world. Then there are the “separated brethren”.

The reason this cannot be resolved is that the divine standard is not recognized as solely infallible without the traditions of men alongside. This will always end in confusion. “God is not the author of confusion.” “Let God be found True, and every man a liar” applies.

Where will you be in 100 years?

Selah,

James Least

Hi James,

Are you from the Church of Christ?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I think your bold is considered shouting, which makes me want to avoid you. That’s the main reason most Protestant avoid you. It how you say things. Communication is only as effectual as someone wanting to listen to you. Actually, I’m surprised that you don’t get disciplined or banned from the moderators.

Capitalization usually indicates shouting.

BTW I find it ironic that you are chastising a poster for the manner in which they communicate. That is rich in irony.

God bless

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Why do you think that we understand Peter’s exhortation to us in a different way? We share so much in common. I don’t have to discuss the dual nature of Christ, His incarnation, His sinlessness, His perfect life and sacrifical death. Oops, maybe we do need to discuss the atonement.

By ‘discuss’ do you mean you want to tell us what we believe?

God bless

 

[2nd_Adam]

By ‘discuss’ do you mean you want to tell us what we believe?

God bless

Sure, since this is the non-Catholic religion section on Catholic Answers. If you want to learn about Protestantism, I guess this is a good place to be.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Capitalization usually indicates shouting.

BTW I find it ironic that you are chastising a poster for the manner in which they communicate. That is rich in irony.

God bless

Do you find me to be rude and intentionally offensive? If so, I do apologize because it is unintentional. It’s very difficult to share my views and keep harmony and unity of our shared Christian Faith. Have you tried to discuss things on a Protestant Forum site. If you have, maybe you can understand where I am coming from.

 

[James_Least]

Hi James,

Are you from the Church of Christ?

Yes and no. We trace our faith and practice to Jesus, The Christ, Son of the Living God, not the groups which sprang from Alexander Campbell, 19th cent.

We emulate the first church as described in Acts Ch. 2. We gather, sing, pray, preach, repent, get filled with The Holy Spirit, heal the sick, take care of widows, orphans, those in prison. We also have missionaries. We are filling the Great Commission of Mt. 28.

Sometimes we meet, pray, repent, pray, repent, sing, sing, sing, being filled with the Holy Spirit. We have found the Truth–the Truth has made us free.

Praise be to God for His love, grace, mercy, longsuffering, forgiveness…

We are so undeserving and ungrateful.

Where will you be in 100 years?

Selah,

James Least

 

[bookgirl32]

Why do you think that we understand Peter’s exhortation to us in a different way? We share so much in common. I don’t have to discuss the dual nature of Christ, His incarnation, His sinlessness, His perfect life and sacrifical death. Oops, maybe we do need to discuss the atonement.

Sure, why do we understand it in a different way?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Sure, since this is the non-Catholic religion section on Catholic Answers. If you want to learn about Protestantism, I guess this is a good place to be.

The non-Catholic section is to compare and contrast beliefs, and yes, to learn about non-Catholic beliefs.It is not so non-Catholics can tells us what we, as Catholics, believe.

God bless

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Do you find me to be rude and intentionally offensive? If so, I do apologize because it is unintentional. It’s very difficult to share my views and keep harmony and unity of our shared Christian Faith. Have you tried to discuss things on a Protestant Forum site. If you have, maybe you can understand where I am coming from.

I wont speak on your intentions, only in how it comes across.

And yes I have used Protestant forums. The difference between me, on a Protestant forum and you, on this forums, is that I don’t pretend to know more than the Protestants that I am talking to about their beliefs and then go on to try to educate them about what they, “actually” believe.

God bless

 

[2nd_Adam]

Yes and no. We trace our faith and practice to Jesus, The Christ, Son of the Living God, not the groups which sprang from Alexander Campbell, 19th cent.

We emulate the first church as described in Acts Ch. 2. We gather, sing, pray, preach, repent, get filled with The Holy Spirit, heal the sick, take care of widows, orphans, those in prison. We also have missionaries. We are filling the Great Commission of Mt. 28.

Sometimes we meet, pray, repent, pray, repent, sing, sing, sing, being filled with the Holy Spirit. We have found the Truth–the Truth has made us free.

Praise be to God for His love, grace, mercy, longsuffering, forgiveness…

We are so undeserving and ungrateful.

Where will you be in 100 years?

Selah,

James Least

Thanks for sharing that you are from the Church of Christ. I guess you are neither Catholic nor Protestant, reject justificaton by faith alone, believe that water baptism is needed for conversion, and proclaim a restoration theology. I know that some Church of Christ churches require that the name of Church of Christ is needed to be a true church. I know some Church of Christ churches consider other Church of Christ churches to be apostate if they play instruments during worship. Please let me know if my understanding is correct.

 

[2nd_Adam]

I wont speak on your intentions, only in how it comes across.

And yes I have used Protestant forums. The difference between me, on a Protestant forum and you, on this forums, is that I don’t pretend to know more than the Protestants that I am talking to about their beliefs and then go on to try to educate them about what they, “actually” believe.

God bless

Internet communications and Forum site discussions are very limited tools. There is much shortcomings in this form of communications; therefore, it’s hard to judge a person’s motive.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Sure, why do we understand it in a different way?

Let’s go slow, do we agree on our understanding of 2 Peter 1 as brother and sister in Christ.?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Internet communications and Forum site discussions are very limited tools. There is much shortcomings in this form of communications; therefore, it’s hard to judge a person’s motive.

Yes I agree it is very difficult to judge motives on an internet forum. That is why I said I wouldn’t speak on your intentions. I only told you how it comes across.

God bless