Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

[mackbrislawn]

In Catholicism there are no “Biblical doctrines” there are Doctrines of the Catholic Church, supported by both Scripture and Tradition.

And one of the doctrines of the Catholic Church and one of its Traditions is that Scripture is inspired!

This is a doctrine and tradition that non-Catholics borrow from Catholics.

However, many liberal modernist Protestant theologians are now doubting the inspiration of scripture. In doing so, they are discarding this doctrine and tradition of the Church, just as Protestants have discarded other doctrines.

 

[2nd_Adam]

2nd Adam always dodges this when I bring it up. In fact, he avoids almost all confrontation with me. The truth hurts, I guess.

There have been others on different threads that have pointed out to him that he is misrepresenting the words of BXVI, but he doesn’t care. As long as he can spread his own unique brand of confusion, he’s happy. He does the same thing with the Scriptures.
**St. Peter spoke well **of people like him when he said of those who misrepresent of St. Paul’s letters:
"In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures" (2 Pet. 3:16).

PS - I’m doing great! I hope you are, too!

“Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ” - St. Jerome

I can top your quote with the Scriptures… because God says it better through the Sacred Scriptures.

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, - Christ Jesus

 

[crazzeto]

“Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ” - St. Jerome

I can top your quote with the Scriptures…

His quote came from Sacred Scripture :doh2:

 

[2nd_Adam]

I have not read the entire thread, but wanted to share my views on the OP. The majority of Catholics do not know their Bible. I recently taught an 8th grade catechism class and they could not find John 6:56! Many were looking in the Old Testment! I have recently begun Scott Hahn’s Bible study book, you can get it here. Its a very, very good overview of the scriptures to get a person started on the Bible. I hope this helps someone somehow!

Pax Christi!

I just love when a sincere dear Catholic sibling speaks truth so we can all move forward in our journey to the Celestrial City. We are pilgrims and aliens in this world. This is not our home. The best path to take is through growing our love and affection of our Great Triune God. :bounce: Growing in the knowledge of Sacred Scripture will grow our love for God!

 

[2nd_Adam]

His quote came from Sacred Scripture :doh2:

Really, it’s not in my Protestant Bible. Do you mind sharing the chapter and verse where it came from?

“Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ” - St. Jerome

 

[2nd_Adam]

Adam God Bless you in your posts. I agree with you 100%. I know many Catholics including my dear husband who never read his Bible until we got married. Now he is always searching for scripture. You are a real blessing to me and my dear brother in Christ. Keep up the good work and Bless you in your journey with our Lord.

I think your Protestant siblings on this site truly appreciate you and love you as our dear sister in the Lord. In Christ, there is no Catholic nor Protestant… because by the Spirit of Christ… we are really one in Christ. The Scriptures will continue to point us to Christ.

If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.

Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. - Col 3

 

[crazzeto]

Really, it’s not in my Protestant Bible. Do you mind sharing the chapter and verse where it came from?

“Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ” - St. Jerome

Well the only hope here is that you’re not talking about

In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures" (2 Pet. 3:16).

and that I some how misread you. I hope that’s the case, otherwise

drbo.org/chapter/68003.htm

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

That’s the Douay Rheims version, it most certainly is in your Protistant bible. Here’s the NAB version

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P129.HTM

15

And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,

16

speaking of these things 12 as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

 

[2nd_Adam]

No, the “Church of Christ” which you described is the one I denied: followers of Alexander Campbell. We believe what Ephesians 2:8-10 plainly states: “For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. We are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus, unto good works; which God has before ordained that we should walk in them.” Baptism is a good work-- it does not save. This got us in real trouble from other “Christians”, when we refused to baptize our infants. Many “christians” think that somehow we are saved by our church membership and good works.

Our music is probably quite unorthodox: bongos, snares, keyboards, electric guitars and voices singing “Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me…”
We have no paid clergy, liturgy, catechism, nor creeds. Our only authority is the Word of God.

One could join and get baptized in every church listed in the yellow pages of New York City and still come up short of heaven.

Choose wisely,

Selah,

James Least

Thanks brother for clarifying what you believe and seperating from the theology of Alexander Campbell. I believe some Church of Christ can have a tendency to merit their own salvation through personal obedience to the law… creating forms of legalism… as compared to trusting in the finished work of Christ. We obey the commands of God by the Spirit, because we love God. Where do you personal stand on justificaton by faith? I noticed that you quoted Ephesians 2:8-9.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Well the only hope here is that you’re not talking about

Please see post 541.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The non-Catholic section is to compare and contrast beliefs, and yes, to learn about non-Catholic beliefs.It is not so non-Catholics can tells us what we, as Catholics, believe.

God bless

I’m not trying to tell Catholics what you guy collectively believe. However, different Catholics seem to believe different things. All I can go by is the Catholic Catechism to get some uniform beliefs of what all Catholics are suppose to believe. When comparing the Catholic Faith with my protestant beliefs, it’s important that I understand the official teaching of the Catholic Church in our discussion. With my time on Catholic Answers, I can sincerely say that we have much more common than most would like to admit.

 

[2nd_Adam]

So can you supply a list of all the essential doctrines?
Surely we as Christians would need to know them all?
Eat my flesh for life (Jn ch6): Essential doctrine or just a suggestion?

We can start with the gospel of God revealed in the Scriptures as essential doctrine. Please note that our view of communion is not included,

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. - 1 Cor 15

 

[crazzeto]

Please see post 541.

Is that not the post you quoted in your response?

2nd Adam always dodges this when I bring it up. In fact, he avoids almost all confrontation with me. The truth hurts, I guess.

There have been others on different threads that have pointed out to him that he is misrepresenting the words of BXVI, but he doesn’t care. As long as he can spread his own unique brand of confusion, he’s happy. He does the same thing with the Scriptures.
St. Peter spoke well of people like him when he said of those who misrepresent of St. Paul’s letters:
“In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures” (2 Pet. 3:16).

PS - I’m doing great! I hope you are, too!

The only “quote” in there is 2 Peter 3:16, did you respond to the wrong post?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Catholics and Protestants speak of the work of the Spirit - yet they have 2 different canons. What’s going on there? They can’t both be right. So who’s got the right canon? Who gets to decide?

Just because a book sounds right doesn’t make it Scripture. Many claiming the Spirit have had differing ideas on the canon. Some in the early Church rejected Revelation, some Hebrews etc etc

I know the book of Moromon is not from God as the Church does not recognise it. And she is guided and guarded by the Spirit.

Some say baptism in not essential. Some say it is. Some say no water? Some say full emersion. Some say partial. Some say sprinking. All would claim the Spirit. Surley the Spirit is not leading people in differing directions.

Perhaps He resposes in the Catholic Church and leads her into all truth and guards her from error and the gates of hell prevailing.

I don’t think the Catholic cannon and Protestant cannon changes the Christian Faith on the essential truths of Christianity. Heck, Protestant Bibles used to include the Apocrypha books in the back of their Protestant Bibles. They are profitable books for all Christians to study. For me personally, when I met with Mormon missionaries over several days, it was by God the Holy Spirit who revealed to me that the Mormon gospel was false and the Book of Mormon was not from God. The Spirit showed me this through the Scriptures. I personally believe that God the Holy Spirit reveals to us personally that the Holy Bible is from God as compared to relying on our churches to tell us so. The Catholic Church and Protestants churches both teach that the Bible is the Word of God. Yet, for the individual to really believe this, the Spirit will reveal this truth deep down into our souls.

 

[2nd_Adam]

All this coming from a guy who misrepresents the words of Benedict VXI in regards to Luther and runs when I call him on it. You have yet to address this.
Frankly - I can’t understand why you haven’t been kicked off this forum.

How can you call yourself "charitable"?
**Why **do you persist in this offensive display of misleading, out of context quotes?
Hmmmm???

Do you know how many times people posted that I misrepresented Pope Benedict’s teaching on justification by faith alone? That’s such a ridiculous claim since I posted a link to his entire work. It is my goal that everyone would read the entire two links in complete context on my signature. Many Catholics miss the point that we are justified by faith which is quite understandable. Official Catholic theology is very good stuff! Does it bother you that Pope Benedict mentioned the words “faith alone” in a positive light? If so, read both of my links in complete context.

 

[2nd_Adam]

guanophore;5868463]

Do you not receive me as your brother in Christ in whom Christ died for?

Yes. We are trying to do for you what Prisca and Aquila did for Apollos.

I am glad you are reading the Catechism, 2nd.

Well, iron sharpening iron should cause sparks… hopefully adding fuel to the fire, increasing our burning love for God. As long as we remember that we are brothers in Christ… and try to share with gentleness and respect… then our time together will be profitable and pleasing to God. We both know that God is completely sovereign, and it is good to grow together since we are from separate Christian communities. Because of my time together here on Catholic Answers, I have encouraged my Pastor to teach the flock about Church History and the historic creeds. I believe he plans on preaching about Reformation Day this Sunday… which is quite radical in a non-denominational church. Maybe by the grace of God, through this thread… Protestants will grow in their knowledge of Church History… and Catholics will grow in their knowledge of Sacred Scripture. Ultimately… we will meet in the middle of the centrality of our Faith … which is Christ and Him crucified for us sinners.

 

[josie_L]

Do you know how many times people posted that I misrepresented Pope Benedict’s teaching on justification by faith alone? That’s such a ridiculous claim since I posted a link to his entire work. It is my goal that everyone would read the entire two links in complete context on my signature. Many Catholics miss the point that we are justified by faith which is quite understandable. Official Catholic theology is very good stuff! Does it bother you that Pope Benedict mentioned the words “faith alone” in a positive light? If so, read both of my links in complete context.

How many people do you think are going to read your links? They’ll assume rather that the Pope believes in “faith alone” as expressed by the reformers which he doesn’t (so this is the problem), furthermore, Catholics should know we are justified by faith and works which is the equivalent of saying “faith working in love”. Personally, I find it misleading to write we are justified by “faith alone” (which is why some Protestants believe in OSAS and deny the sacraments) as it does not correctly express who we are as Christians. Martin Luther should have left well enough alone.

 

[bookgirl32]

Do you know how many times people posted that I misrepresented Pope Benedict’s teaching on justification by faith alone? That’s such a ridiculous claim since I posted a link to his entire work.

I’m trying to say this with patience because we’ve been getting along better. Do you understand that it’s possible that, even though you posted the entire link, you do not understand what he was saying? Posting the entire link does not make your understanding of what he was saying correct, does that make sense? Does it make sense that Catholics knowledgeable in their faith would have the necessary information to better understand what Benedict was saying and therefore be able to correct you?

It is my goal that everyone would read the entire two links in complete context on my signature. Many Catholics miss the point that we are justified by faith which is quite understandable.

No, you miss the point that you are misunderstanding what the Pope is saying. Your refusal to accept that you could be wrong in your understanding of the Pope’s words (again, posting the entire piece does not make your understanding correct, I don’t know where you get that idea) is what makes you seem so condescending and arrogant.

Official Catholic theology is very good stuff! Does it bother you that Pope Benedict mentioned the words “faith alone” in a positive light? If so, read both of my links in complete context.

Yes, Catholic theology is the best stuff actually. But the Pope was not mentioning the doctrine of sola fide in a positive light, but correcting the false doctrine within it (whatever different definition a Protestant may have of it). If that definition rejects the necessity of good works done in faith through grace in justification, then it is incorrect. I’m not saying this again so read it really really well please.

 

[2nd_Adam]

It’s the glasses.

Nobody has 20/20 vision. We all wear glasses with a dark tint…

1 Corinthians 13

The Way of Love

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Originally Posted by 2nd Adam
I am trying to have a starting point in which we can agree. We are justifed by faith, but we do see things quite differently in our understanding of the doctrine of justification. I believe in penal substitution, and a forensic justification through the imputation of the righteousness of Christ through faith. I believe that we are justified by the righteousness of Christ alone, being an alien righteousness apart from us. How do you see the doctrine of justification as a Catholic Christian?

I think you need to start a new thread on this, 2nd, or go to one that has already been started. I suggest Apologetics. It is a frequent topic here at CAF. Don’t be scared.

What’s up with you with the Apologetics section? Have your buddies over there join us over here. IMO… those with an Apologetic mindset cause more division than unity in the body of Christ.

 

[bookgirl32]

What’s up with you with the Apologetics section? Have your buddies over there join us over here.

The apologetics section is for the discussions we have been having over here. You are questioning Catholic teaching and looking at the Catholic Catechism and quoting the Pope. The Apologetics section is specifically for those questions. It’s also full of very very very knowledgeable Catholics, which is why I think you’re a little scared of going on over there.