Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

[Carlan]

Do you consider tough love unchristian and immature, Do you think the kind of correction given to Tweet was immature and unloving. Carlan

 

[2nd_Adam]

Do you consider tough love unchristian and immature, Do you think the kind of correction given to Tweet was immature and unloving. Carlan

Of course I do. However, I will not be playing the role of God the Holy Spirit. Conviction of sin and repentance is the work of the Spirit of God in our lives. We are all great sinners who are in process of being transformed to the image of Christ by the Spirit of God (Rom 8). We need to be patient with each other and receive 1 Cor 13, and check our own motives when we debate and discuss things. I do not like apologetics because it tends to inflame the flesh that remains in all of us. I believe my motive here on Catholic Answers is to inflame our love for our Triune God, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant.

 

[guanophore]

Thank you for your so spaecial concern, I will say amen to all of Adams posts!

Your sarcasm notwithstanding, this is exactly our point. If you were Catholic, you would realize that saying “Amen” means “I agree!”. what you have stated here is that you will agree with all of Adam’s posts, even when the content is anti-Catholic.

And you are right I am all those things and proud of the fact that I am saved by Gods grace!

I have answered these questions as honestly as I know how so on to you witch hunt

I am glad you are saved by God’s grace too, Tweety. No one is on a "witch hunt’ here Tweety. What we are trying to tell you is that it is disingenuous for you to claim to be Catholic while you are denying the Catholic faith. It is not a pleasing testimony to misrepresent yourself this way.

This subject is off topic in this thread, but since it shows up on every thread you visit, it appears that it needs to be addressed.

Yes I do and I teach EXACTLY what the Church teaches, I never invoke my personal feeling to anyone there. Does that meet with your approval, not that I care!

It is distressing that someone so separated from Catholic faith is teaching in RCIA, but I know there have been less qualified persons than yourself. I sat in their classes.

Have you considered role playing on CAF as well? What if you pretended you believed the Catholic faith, for the sake of not misrepresenting yourself here?

Please leave tweetymom alone!

I would be delighted to refrain from cluttering the thread, and taking up bandwidth with this. Perhaps you could pursuade her to change her affiliation, so that she is not masquerqding as someone she is not? If she can do that, then I won’t have to bring it up all the time.

So why do you want to be Catholic? I don’t understand why you’d stay, if you disagree with that much of the Church’s teachings. That’s an honest question.

Clearly she does not, as she is not. However, I think she said her husband is Catholic,and she is involved in his parish, and has decided to enjoy it there. My question is, why masquerade as Catholic on CAF? What purpose is to be served by misrepresenting oneself, supposedly in the name of God?

This is in defense of tweetymom who is led by the Spirit!!

I find it hard to believe that the HS would lead one to misrepresent oneself.

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

2nd, Paul is referring to the Apostles ('we") and those in unity with them. To the extent that modern day non-Catholics have departed from the Apostolic faith, they do not have the mind of Christ. This includes the TULIP.

 **The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ**

Tweetymom is one of the most Christ-like Christian on this site!

I am glad that you approve of Tweety’s character. It says something about you that you would affirm another Christian’s misrepresentation of herself.

I wonder how people do this?

It is easier if your conscience is seared as with a hot iron. She has sojoured in the Protestant world so long she has fallen into relativism.

How do you teach people things you don't believe in, why would you do that????

I think she is genuinely passionate about her faith in God, and thinks that it does not really matter - God will straighten everyone out in His own time.

It’s not like one would have to teach RCIA to get by in life, not like having to teach scientific or economic theories or other things you don’t believe in as part of course. Why would one teach under such false pretenses, why would one participate in leading people into a religion they didn’t themselves believe in, I just don’t understand.

It has been made clear on this thread, by the statements framed around the phrases “I think” and “I believe”.

 

[tweetymom]

Do you consider tough love unchristian and immature, Do you think the kind of correction given to Tweet was immature and unloving. Carlan

When I need correction I know that I will get it direct from God. How do I know this ? Because I have many times received correction from God. I really don’t need anyone here to correct me. Like I said I came to CAF for fellowship with Catholics and non Catholics in love not in sparing. Just because some think one way and others think another way does not mean who is right or wrong. That is for God to decide.
I believe that Jesus came to save me and He has. I confess Jesus and am not ashamed of that fact
I do not hold with each and everyone of your beliefs , but that doesn’t make you or I evil, or as I have been told that I am going to Hell! I will answer you question, Carlan yes I think there have been many outrages and unloving correction given to me and others that don’t agree. I really don’t care about the insults to me, but it bothers me to see others treated as second class Citizens in Christs love. Jesus doesn’t tell me to do these things, but maybe He does to you.
So if you and others feel justified in all that you do go in peace

 

[guanophore]

"bookgirl32:

I’m not trying to tell you how to think, or how to believe.

You seem to think that 2nd Adam has every right to stand up for his own beliefs, but that we as Catholics do not. I think that’s a double standard.

And thats not being judgemental?

No, not a bit. But the fact that you cannot see this is proof that you don’t understand the difference between judging the soul, and having discernment about behavior.

I didn’t come here for critizim,

That being the case, you might wish to refrain from behavior that will draw criticism, such as misrepresting yourself as a Catholic, when you don’t hold Catholic faith. Role playing on here is fine, so you might want to choose a different role.

 I came here for fellowship.

You have said this before, and I will advise you again that you are in the wrong part of the forum. You need to confine yourself to Catholic Living. Light has no fellowship with darkness, and to the extent you are in darkness, you cannot expect to find any fellowship here.

I love all people regardless of who you are or what you believe.

This is very much of God. What is not of God is your apparent belief that it is loving to confirm others in error, or to misrepresent oneself, or to teach to others what you do not believe. These actions are difficult for any real Catholic to construe as loving.

I know zillions of Catholics and non Catholic and have never met a more judgemental people than I have here.

It seems that you are confused between discernment, and judgement.

Not one person in my lifetime that I have ever met have been so unkind not just to me but to others who don’t meet what they think is right.

I am sorry that you have never met anyone who loved you enough to tell you the Truth. It is no wonder you have trouble accepting it from us. You have come to understand “love” as something warm and fuzzy that does not stand up to error.

Trust me when I say if I was looking for answers and even thought about becoming a Catholic I wouldn’t find much love here that would make me decide to become Catholic.

Yes, I do trust that. This is why I am so convinced it is disingenuous of you to claim to be Catholic here.

I have been told I was going to Hell by some people cause I didn’t fall into their idea of what groove i was in and I have seen others bashed and bashed over and over again.

It is wrong for anyone to make such a statement about a persons’ eternal soul. You should report this to the mods, so that the offender can be sanctioned, so it does not continue. If you fail to report it, you are just encouraging wrongdoing.

Confronting error is not “bashing”.

Now that is what makes me angry and hurts my feeling not especially for me but for the zillion of times I have seen others treated unkindl:thumbsup:y.

It is not my intention, nor do I believe that of anyone on this thread, to make you angry or hurt your feelings.

Neither are we willing to dismiss error in order to protect your feelings.

Confronting error is not “unkind”, although I agree with you, it can be done in an unkind way (like someone telling you that you are going to hell).
"estesbob:

the fact that you reject many of our Churchs core doctrines does not mean we are not allowed to express them.

Great for you:thumbsup:

If you were, in fact, Catholic as you claim to be, it would be great for you too!

 

[guanophore]

If you think if Catholics are not as confused as Protestants… please tell me the official Catholic position in regards to Muslims and Jews.

I think we will all agree that Catholics are as confused as Protestants. If they were not, the world would be a much different place. However, the difference is not in the persons calling themselves “Catholic”. As we can see from this thread, some persons claiming to be Catholic do not understand or follow Catholicism. In fact, I would venture this is true for the majority of American Catholics.

The teaching is unified, though.

As far as you attempt (again!) to derail the thread by changing the subject, no thanks.

You have to help me because I am not Catholic. When the Philipian jailer asked Paul what must we do to be saved… your Catholic answer is…?

The NT is a Catholic book, 2nd. that is why the ans. is written there. Your understanding of what is written, however, is separated from what the Apostles believed and taught. When the NT is read apart from Apostolic Sacred Tradition, it is easy to misunderstand what is written.

That’s avoiding the question dear brother. What is the doctrine of justification?

Both of you are off topic. Take this over to Apologetics, where it belongs.

By the way, I want to commend you on starting a new thread for Justification. It is a step in the right direction!

Okay brother, please help me understand what 20% or more do we disagree with. There is a new jusification thread we can discuss called justification - Catholic and Protestant. We both agree that God is our ultimate authority.

I chose an arbitrary and very possibly erroneous number. However, I look forward to having this discussion with you, when you pluck up the courage to come to Apologetics.

I saw the new thread. Good for you! I will go visit.

Your post was not about God being our ultimate authority, but about earthly leaders. Your implication was that your leaders were commissioned by God, and Catholic leaders are not. Tweety agreed with you.

In the context of this thread, part of the % in which we are not in agreement is that the reading of the NT should not be separated from the Sacred Tradition which produced it.

 

[tweetymom]

No, not a bit. But the fact that you cannot see this is proof that you don’t understand the difference between judging the soul, and having discernment about behavior.

That being the case, you might wish to refrain from behavior that will draw criticism, such as misrepresting yourself as a Catholic, when you don’t hold Catholic faith. Role playing on here is fine, so you might want to choose a different role.

You have said this before, and I will advise you again that you are in the wrong part of the forum. You need to confine yourself to Catholic Living. Light has no fellowship with darkness, and to the extent you are in darkness, you cannot expect to find any fellowship here.

This is very much of God. What is not of God is your apparent belief that it is loving to confirm others in error, or to misrepresent oneself, or to teach to others what you do not believe. These actions are difficult for any real Catholic to construe as loving.

It seems that you are confused between discernment, and judgement.

I am sorry that you have never met anyone who loved you enough to tell you the Truth. It is no wonder you have trouble accepting it from us. You have come to understand “love” as something warm and fuzzy that does not stand up to error.

Yes, I do trust that. This is why I am so convinced it is disingenuous of you to claim to be Catholic here.

It is wrong for anyone to make such a statement about a persons’ eternal soul. You should report this to the mods, so that the offender can be sanctioned, so it does not continue. If you fail to report it, you are just encouraging wrongdoing.

Confronting error is not “bashing”.

It is not my intention, nor do I believe that of anyone on this thread, to make you angry or hurt your feelings.

Neither are we willing to dismiss error in order to protect your feelings.

Confronting error is not “unkind”, although I agree with you, it can be done in an unkind way (like someone telling you that you are going to hell).

If you were, in fact, Catholic as you claim to be, it would be great for you too!

I don’t just claim to be Catholic I am!! I do not agree with you and never will. You are not wrong for you and I am happy for you. I sometimes don’t like you, but I love you with thw love of the Lord. Peace!

 

[2nd_Adam]

It really grieves me to see Catholic Christians treat a dear Catholic Christian sister in the way that you do. Therefore, I will cross the imaginary line and rebuke those brothers and sisters who need to be rebuked with the Word of God.

For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

Walk by the Spirit

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. - Apostolic Teaching

 

[elvisman]

I think you are outside the view of official Catholic Theology. Doesn’t the Catholic Church believe that God is sovereign? Are you familar with the book of Job?

Wrong again.
I am rightly representing the Catholic position - the is the only right position.

As for the Book of Job - yes I am familiar with it. What does it have to do with God authoring evil? Why do you keep dancing aound this issue?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Wrong again.
I am rightly representing the Catholic position - the is the only right position.

As for the Book of Job - yes I am familiar with it. What does it have to do with God authoring evil? Why do you keep dancing aound this issue?

Maybe you should do a self-study on the attributes of God?

 

[elvisman]

Maybe for him it is who’s to say?

That is moral relativism. "What’s right for some may be wrong for others."
The truth is the TRUTH - period.

What frightens me is that you teach catechumens about the Catholic faith . . .

 

[elvisman]

Maybe you should do a self-study on the attributes of God?

There you go again dancing around the issue.
Do you or do you not believe that God is the author of evil?

 

[2nd_Adam]

There you go again dancing around the issue.
Do you or do you not believe that God is the author of evil?

Did Satan have to get permission from God before Job suffered? I’ve posted many many times that God is never the author of evil. It is the Christian paradox in which you think that it’s not.

 

[elvisman]

This is a biblical exhortation for Catholics who seem to be devouring other Catholic Christians…

For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. - Gal 5:15

I don’t mind if you pick on me since I am a seperated sibling. But, I think you should back off some with Tweetymom. 1 Cor 13 trumps apologetics any day of the week.

Colossians 3:1-17 and Romans 5:14 tell us to teach, to correct and to admonish one another in the truth. 1 Cor. 13 doesn’t “trump” this - it reinforces it.
We admonish and correct out of love and when so-called Catholics spew the kind of warped and perverted views of the Catholic faith that Tweetymom does - we MUST correct and admonish.

While we’re on the subject of 1 Cor. 13 - funny how Paul doesn’t say that faith is the greatest virtue - but LOVE is.
Not very Protestant-friendly words, in light of Sola Fide . . .

 

[elvisman]

Did Satan have to get permission from God before Job suffered? I’ve posted many many times that God is never the author of evil. It is the Christian paradox in which you think that it’s not.

Huh???
PLEASE calrify that last sentence.

As for Job - God ALLOWED those things to happen to him - he did not CREATE them.

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[guanophore]

This is a trustworthy saying worthy of full acceptance. By the grace of God, I fear no man. The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom.

You know, I think you are right! I think that the fear of confrontation that stems from getting one’s feelings hurt does not really describe a “man”.

Please invite all of your Catholic apologetics friends on the apologetics section over to our fellowship, so we can have a Catholic/Protestant BBQ together as brothers in Christ!

I think you have misunderstood the purpose of the forum. Besides, since you seem to be set on celebrating wrongdoing (as demonstrated by your recent posts about Tetzel and Pope Leo and Luther) , separation, and division, I must not be found encouraging anyone to participate.

The remnant chosen by grace crosses imaginary lines in the sand! There is true unity in which the Spirit of God created!

I agree, 2nd. The problem is that the lines are not “imaginary” but very real. The only writing Jesus ever did was this writing, and it represents Eternal Truth. He committed this Truth to the Church He founded.

Of course I do.

I guess that means you think theApostle Paul was being unkind and unloving when he confronted Peter about the same kind of hypocrisy?

Conviction of sin and repentance is the work of the Spirit of God in our lives.  We are all great sinners who are in process of being transformed to the image of Christ by the Spirit of God (Rom 8).

I agree. And sometimes the HS uses the intervention of our brothers and sisters to reach our hearts. This is what it means to exhort and admonish.

We need to be patient with each other and receive 1 Cor 13, and check our own motives when we debate and discuss things.

I hope you will apply this to yourself, expecially when drawing gleeful attention to the fractures in the Body of Christ. The material you have posted here is the source of many deep wounds.

I do not like apologetics because it tends to inflame the flesh that remains in all of us.

This is an interesting statement coming from one who have challenged all of us to “Defend the Catholic faith”.

I believe my motive here on Catholic Answers is to inflame our love for our Triune God, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant.

Your presence is certainly inflammatory, I will grant you that!

 

[2nd_Adam]

Huh???
PLEASE calrify that last sentence.

As for Job - God ALLOWED those things to happen to him - he did not CREATE them.

---

---

So, please let me understand how God’s permissible will is different. Through providence, God causes, permits, allows… so all things that He ordains before the foundations of the world, comes to pass… to His own glory!

 

[2nd_Adam]

Originally Posted by guanophore
I think if the Pope serving at the time had not been so corrupt, then such anti-papal confessions of faith would not have needed to be created. However, there being a wolf among the sheep does not negate the care of the sheep entrusted to Peter. They threw out the baby with the bathwater! The doctrine did not need to be reformed, but the men who claimed to profess and represent it . Men are always in need of Reform.

Please explain your post. Are you implying that Pope Leo was a wolf at the time of the Protestant Reformation? It’s much better being a wild boar than a wolf. As we know, Pope Leo nicknamed Luther to be a wild boar.

He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. - Jesus

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. - Jesus

http://www.scottstrainingsystems.com/images/sheep.jpg

If you are not calling Pope Leo a wolf, then forgive me for my misunderstanding of your post. However, if you are calling Pople Leo a wolf, then your Catholic brothers should demand that you RECANT of such a statement.

Clarify or RECANT!

 

[guanophore]

When I need correction I know that I will get it direct from God. How do I know this ? Because I have many times received correction from God.

I trust that this is the case.

I really don’t need anyone here to correct me.

Have you considered that what you think you need, and what God thinks you need might be different? Did you really expect to find any authentic fellowship that is dishonest?!

You said you came here for fellowship, but you want us to participate in your dishonesty? What quality of fellowship is that?

Like I said I came to CAF for fellowship with Catholics and non Catholics in love not in sparing. Just because some think one way and others think another way does not mean  who is right or wrong. That is for God to decide. :thumbsup:

This is one of those anti-Catholic statements Tweety, that smacks of relativism. In fact, God has decided right and wrong, and committed this knowledge to His Church.

I believe that Jesus came to save me and He has. I confess Jesus and am not ashamed of that fact/

No one here has suggested that you should be.

I do not hold with each and everyone of your beliefs ,

That is not the issue, Tweety. The issue is that you claim to be Catholic, yet you reject the Catholic faith. It has nothing to do with what anyother individuals believe.

but that doesn’t make you or I evil, or as I have been told that I am going to Hell! I will answer you question, Carlan yes I think there have been many outrages and unloving correction given to me and others that don’t agree. I really don’t care about the insults to me, but it bothers me to see others treated as second class Citizens in Christs love. Jesus doesn’t tell me to do these things, but maybe He does to you.
So if you and others feel justified in all that you do go in peace

Jesus tells us not to have fellowship with darkeness (untruth). He has told us that Truth is not relative. He has told us that it is not loving to confirm others in error.

I don’t just claim to be Catholic I am!!

It certainly appearst that you believe you are. Apparently you have redefined the word “catholic” just as 2nd Adam has done, so that you can embrace it without embracing the faith which the word describes.

I do not agree with you  and never will.

That is not a problem. The problem is that you claim to be Catholic and reject the Teachings of the Catholic Church. It is disingenuous.

You are not wrong for you and I am happy for you. I sometimes don’t like you, but I love you with thw love of the Lord. Peace!

More relativism.

 

[guanophore]

It really grieves me to see Catholic Christians treat a dear Catholic Christian sister in the way that you do. Therefore, I will cross the imaginary line and rebuke those brothers and sisters who need to be rebuked with the Word of God.

How can you cross a “line” that does not exist?

Tweety’s faith, by her own admission, is not Catholic. Please dont’ fall into that charade.

By what authority do you claim you are in a position to rebuke me, or anyone else on CAF? Have you taken over pastoral responsibility of us wayward Catholics?

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

I would just like to note that I do not find this discourse at all “gratifying”. On the contrary, it is sickening. To witness the wanton disregard of the Most Holy Faith is quite painful.

 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. - Apostolic Teaching

This is an interesting quote, especially from someone who just posted a number of items that appear to be deliberately for the purpose of provoking.