Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

[guanophore]

When did you become a Calvinist? :clapping: I told you about the group that broke from the Reformed circles with the nickname Catholic Calvinism.

Yes, and you also said that the Pope agrees with Calvin. Both statements are erroneous. Calvin retained some of the Apostolic Teachings, and to the extent that he did, unity exists.

Peace brother, and be graceful and nice to tweetymom who has shown the true light in Her.  Again, 1 Cor 13 trumps Catholic apologetics any day of the week.

Confronting error is not a failure to be “graceful and nice”. I wonder if you have asked her to be “graceful and nice” by refraining from misrepresenting herself here as Catholic?

There is no opposition between love and making a defense of the faith. It is not loving to confirm others in error.

That’s a stacked statement. Let me give you my interpertation of your statement.

This makes it clear why your understanding of the Scriptures is a departure from Apostolic Teaching. You are reading and interpreting according to your perceptions, which are a significant distance from the meaning of the authors

When we agree, I am holding to the Apostle's teaching.  When we disagree, I am no longer holding to the Apostle's teaching.

No, 2nd.

To the extent that you depart from the Teaching of the Apostles that is alive and well in the Catholic Church, you do not agree with what they believed.

However, I don’t believe the Apostles were Catholic nor Protestants. They were simply Christians. Oh by the way brother, Happy Reformation Day!

Please try not to provoke me, 2nd. I have made it clear to you that I do not believe division and separation are the fruit of the HS. If you wish to celebrate such matters, please do it with someone else.

 Nobody said Christian unity would be easy.

No, but He did say it was simple. He said He is Truth,a nd all who are in Him will be in unity. We are in disunity to the extent we fail to be in His Truth. You never did answer the question about what the scripture says we should do when we have a disagreement.

It’s been 492 years ago when Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the Catholic Church door.

No doubt each one of them a great grief to God.

So, please let me understand how God’s permissible will is different. Through providence, God causes, permits, allows… so all things that He ordains before the foundations of the world, comes to pass… to His own glory!

Great topic for a new thread. Off topic here…

Clarify or RECANT!

Off topic. Belongs in apologetics. I will be happy to respond if you would like to open a thread.

 

[2nd_Adam]

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by guanophore
I think if the Pope serving at the time had not been so corrupt, then such anti-papal confessions of faith would not have needed to be created. However, there being a wolf among the sheep does not negate the care of the sheep entrusted to Peter. They threw out the baby with the bathwater! The doctrine did not need to be reformed, but the men who claimed to profess and represent it . Men are always in need of Reform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd Adam
Please explain your post. Are you implying that Pope Leo was a wolf at the time of the Protestant Reformation? It’s much better being a wild boar than a wolf. As we know, Pope Leo nicknamed Luther to be a wild boar.

He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. - Jesus

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. - Jesus

If you are not calling Pope Leo a wolf, then forgive me for my misunderstanding of your post. However, if you are calling Pople Leo a wolf, then your Catholic brothers should demand that you RECANT of such a statement.

Originally Posted by 2nd Adam
Clarify or RECANT!

Great topic for a new thread. Off topic here…

Off topic. Belongs in apologetics. I will be happy to respond if you would like to open a thread.

Okay, I will assume that you believe Pope Leo was a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

http://batteredsheep.com/graphics/wolf-in-sheep.jpg

You already told us who is Pope Leo in this picture. Martin Luther is the black sheep. Happy Reformation day brother!

 

[guanophore]

Okay, I will assume that you believe Pope Leo was a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Careful about “assuming”!

***/u/me

This is what I was talking about when I said it appeared that you were posting things in order to be deliberately provocative.

I have to hand it to you, 2nd, you now have the record on CAF for the number of off topic posts in your own thread.!

You seem to have gotten lost in a bout of mental masturbation. I hope the self pleasuring is gratifying for you.

 

[2nd_Adam]

This is what I was talking about when I said it appeared that you were posting things in order to be deliberately provocative.

I have to hand it to you, 2nd, you now have the record on CAF for the number of off topic posts in your own thread.!

I’m sorry, but I think systematically… within all that I know of the Christian Faith. Iron sharpening iron should produce sparks that should inflame your love for God alone!

 

[elvisman]

So, please let me understand how God’s permissible will is different. Through providence, God causes, permits, allows… so all things that He ordains before the foundations of the world, comes to pass… to His own glory!

And you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
God permitting something is not the same as God causing it.

Just like God doesn’t force his love on anybody and doesn’t drag them kicking and screaming into heaven against their will. That would make him a spiritual rapist.
He also doesn’t send anybody kicking and screaming into hell.
He allows us to either cooperate with his grace or to reject it.

 

[2nd_Adam]

And you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
God permitting something is not the same as God causing it.

Just like God doesn’t force his love on anybody and doesn’t drag them kicking and screaming into heaven against their will. That would make him a spiritual rapist.
He also doesn’t send anybody kicking and screaming into hell.
He allows us to either cooperate with his grace or to reject it.

Sounds very pelagius or at least very semi-pelagius to me. Does the Catholic Church not see God as completely sovereign and immutable?

 

[guanophore]

I’m sorry, but I think systematically… within all that I know of the Christian Faith. Iron sharpening iron should produce sparks that should inflame your love for God alone!

I don’t know what kind a 'system" you have in mind, but you previously said you were here to foster unity. It would appear that you believe your goal of unity is promoted by sparks, and flames?

You also are speaking rather hypocritically, since you have already reprimanded us for trying to sharpen Tweety’s iron with ours…

I guess what you mean to say is that there really is a double standard, as she has proposed. Non-Catholics are authorized by God to “sharpen the iron” of Catholics, but it does not go the other way.

The notion of “God alone” is foreign to Catholics. We understand that Jesus founded a Church, and made us members one of another because He did not wish to be “alone”. He wants to be glorified in His saints and angels.

Happy Reformation day brother!

I find it sad that you delight in celebrating division, separation, and wrongdoing. It is also disconcerting that you persist in this behavior after you have been informed that it is perceived as deliberately off topic and provocative.

It is even more disingenuous that you do so after reprimanding Catholics for doing things you consider are provoking.

 

[guanophore]

Sounds very pelagius or at least very semi-pelagius to me. Does the Catholic Church not see God as completely sovereign and immutable?

This is also off topic in this thread. Do you have any other issues related to the OP you would like to cover before we hit the 1000 post limit,when the thread will close?

I think it might benefit you to read the Pelagian heresy again, as the difference between God’s permissible and perfect will have nothing to do with Pelagianism.

 

[estesbob]

I don’t just claim to be Catholic I am!! I do not agree with you and never will. You are not wrong for you and I am happy for you. I sometimes don’t like you, but I love you with thw love of the Lord. Peace!

The problem is you are in profound disagreement with the Church. in reading your posts it appears that you have embraced a strange mixture of ecumenism flavored with universalism. You can call ir catholic if y9u like but it is not.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The problem is you are in profound disagreement with the Church. in reading your posts it appears that you have embraced a strange mixture of ecumenism flavored with universalism. You can call ir catholic if y9u like but it is not.

What’s your view of ECT 1 and ECT 2?

 

[2nd_Adam]

This is also off topic in this thread. Do you have any other issues related to the OP you would like to cover before we hit the 1000 post limit,when the thread will close?

I think it might benefit you to read the Pelagian heresy again, as the difference between God’s permissible and perfect will have nothing to do with Pelagianism.

Well, if Catholics read their Bibles more, then you would understand that the attributes of God such as His sovereignity and His immutablity is related to the thread topic. Peace brother!

 

[2nd_Adam]

Originally Posted by tweetymom
I don’t just claim to be Catholic I am!! I do not agree with you and never will. You are not wrong for you and I am happy for you. I sometimes don’t like you, but I love you with thw love of the Lord. Peace!

The problem is you are in profound disagreement with the Church. in reading your posts it appears that you have embraced a strange mixture of ecumenism flavored with universalism. You can call ir catholic if y9u like but it is not.

Picking on Tweetymom, my dear Catholic Christian sister, is way off the thread topic. Witch hunting is defintely not Christ-like too. Have you never read the Scriptures?

http://www.gunaxin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/sylvester_tweety-300x200.jpg

But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. - Apostle Paul

 

[guanophore]

So your personal belief is the the Catholic Church is dead wrong on its core doctrines but its OK for you to teach our faith to people who are aspiring to becomne Catholics as long as you dont let them know you dont believe what you are teaching them?

Maybe someone ought to warn the bishop of Sacramento?

 

[estesbob]

Maybe someone ought to warn the bishop of Sacramento?

I would suggest we all read the book “The Hobbit” and pay special attention to the Creatures that turn to stone when the sun comes up. There are several of them prowling around this thread.

 

[guanophore]

Well, if Catholics read their Bibles more, then you would understand that the attributes of God such as His sovereignity and His immutablity is related to the thread topic. Peace brother!

I can certainly affirm that this is true. You seem to be suggesting that the Catholic undersatnding that God’s permissive will, and His perfect will being different from yours results from your perception that we don’t read our bibles enough. Do you think if all Catholics read their Bibles as much as Historic Confessional Protestants that we would all share your ideas?

 

[guanophore]

Picking on Tweetymom, my dear Catholic Christian sister, is way off the thread topic

Yes, I suppose it is.

However, the fact that she has been on this thread, claiming to be Catholic when she clearly has rejected the Catholic faith, does need to be addressed.

Please do not fall into the error that everyone who claims to be Catholic espouses the Catholic faith as handed down to us by the Apostles. At least you have the integrity to give yourself a small “c”, thus making it clear that you espouse the generic meaning of the word, and not the doctrines contained in the Church most commonly described by the term.

 .  Witch hunting is defintely not Christ-like too. Have you never read the Scriptures?

Beleive me, we are sure not "hunting’ for anyone like Tweety who misrepresents themselves as she has done here. It is bad for all of CAF and I would be delighted not to run into it anywhere on these fora.

It was Tweety, who appears to have felt persecuted for her claims, who brought the words “witch hunt” into the thread.

I have not found anything about Tweety’s confession of the Christian faith that is at all similar to the faith of witches, unless it is relativism, which is just as much an infection in the Catholic faith as it is Protestant.

But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. - Apostle Paul

It is no one’s intention here to bite or devour Tweety. We just are pleading with her not to misrepresent herself, as it is damaging to all of us.

 

[elvisman]

Sounds very pelagius or at least very semi-pelagius to me. Does the Catholic Church not see God as completely sovereign and immutable?

Do you have any idea what Pelagianism was or is? Apparently not.
Your heresy stems from the fact that you believe God is the author of evil - although you claim that this is not what you believe.

Furthermore - you actually believe that God creates some people destined for hell.

The Catholic Church DOES see God as completely sovreign - but not as creating evil. Although God KNOWS what you’re going to choose because he is outside of time - he does not ordain it - YOU do.
Just as he does not force his love on us. WE accept or reject it.
Hope that helps.

 

[elvisman]

Picking on Tweetymom, my dear Catholic Christian sister, is way off the thread topic. Witch hunting is defintely not Christ-like too. Have you never read the Scriptures?

But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. - Apostle Paul

And you’ve already been shown that we are CALLED UPON to correct and admonish one another (Colossians 3:1-17, Romans 5:14).
NOT to do so would be the ultimate act of uncharity.
**
This is a woman who is wrongly catechising people eager to enter the Church by misrepresenting the Catholic faith. She needs to be corrected and admoinished.**

 

[StillWondering]

Claim? I am a Catholic, but also respect other religons.

If you are Catholic then you should know that the Church teaches there is only one true Church that Christ built. Catholicism is the fulfillment of the Jewish faith – the kingdom of stone that will topple and rule unshaken in the prophecy of Danial.

We acknowledge that Christian groups who believe in the Trinity and baptized with this belief and the intention of baptizing into the mystical body of Christ are indeed followers of Christ. However, they are not in a the one true Church. In fact it is more fitting to call their religion faith traditions because a church is a temple of worship where there is a sacrifice upon an alter by the ancient Jewish traditions of temple. Since many Christians do not believe in Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist when an properly ordained priest is celebrating and does the proper consecration and have the proper intention, then there is no sacrifice in their church.

This and much more is part of Catholic teaching. Are you Catholic - a member of this vast global church and participate and believe the same teachings that all Catholics are called to believe? Are you Catholic in name and part of another community that does not believe in the teachings of the Church such as the soul is created at conception and the Real Presence? It is much deeper than say a nominal Republican voting on big government oriented bills. The teachings of the Church are the teachings of Christ handed down through the ages, thus there is no compromises nor alterations. If you cannot pick up your cross and follow the Christ by wrestling with and then submitting to the teachings of the Church, then you are Catholic in name only.

My post is not intended to be insulting or offensive, instead it is intended to ignite your heart and mind - to bring about reflection and to challenge you in a humanly attempt to imitate the challenges Christ has given to us.

 

[StillWondering]

Sounds very pelagius or at least very semi-pelagius to me. Does the Catholic Church not see God as completely sovereign and immutable?

You do not know what the terms semi-pelagius nor what pelagius mean:

catholic.com/thisrock/quickquestions/?qid=2155

God is completely sovereign. In his sovereign act he gave human choices. The Scriptures tell us so.

Here is a question for you: “Can God create a rock so heavy even he cannot lift it?” If he can, this the rock then he does not have the power to make this heavy rock. If he cannot then he is not all powerful. Catholics understand the neither answer is correct, but if you want to know the Catholic answer, search for it. What is your answer?