Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!

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I am not repeat misrepresting the Catholic faith, never have and never will.
I believe that 100%, tweety. I respect that you are loyal to your position you have been entrusted to as a teacher of the Catholic Faith; I believe that you are teaching what the Scriptures proclaim, as interpreted by the Magisterium of the CC. Even if you don’t believe it yourself…which I find peculiar. But, I applaud your efforts at loyalty to your position. :clapping:
If and when I need to be corrected and admoninished I know that God will do the work. And no matter what I still love you with the Love of the Lord!
Would you be in love with the one who does the admonishing as well, tweety? Would you be humble enough to accept admonitions from God? And how might He show these admonishments to you? Would you consider the possibility that God is using the CAF to do His Work to admonish you?
 
Indeed, it is sadly a very true statement. It is also true that some of them are teaching the faith, when they should not be.

They call such “Catholics” cafeteria Catholics. I don’t agree. I say they are Protestant, but don’t know it, just like Tweety is Protestant, but doesn’t know it. I say this with generosity, as she claims to be a fervent Christian, and I take her word for it, so I don’t believe she would bear false witness about herself, calling herself Catholic, unless she believed it. She, along with all those others who do not accept the Teachings of Jesus preserved in the Church, are mistaken.
This is where I disagree with the orthodox Catholics. I believe orthodox Catholics need to show charity and grace with the cafeteria Catholics. The Christian life is a process of growing in knowlege and life (how we live as Christians). Nobody reaches the fullness of the truth in this life because God’s ways are not our ways. God’s foolishness is superior to man’s wisdom. Who knows, maybe some of the orthodox Christians will grow and see things quite differently later in life, transforming into a Cafeteria Catholic to the praise and glory of God?

…but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - Apostolic teaching
 
You know that there are many many Catholics who do not agree wiht official Catholic doctrine. Many Catholics who do not agree with the Magestrium do not leave the Catholic Church to try to reform the Catholic Church from within. This has nothing to do with Tweetymom, but is a true statement.
So?
 
This is where I disagree with the orthodox Catholics. I believe orthodox Catholics need to show charity and grace with the cafeteria Catholics.
In that case, we are not in disagreement. I think that all Orthodox Catholics would agree that others should be treated with charity and grace. It is not charitable or graceful to confirm others in error, though.

When Jesus said that people who would not listen to the Church should be treated as a “tax collector” or a “Gentile”, He did not mean that we should be uncharitable or ungraceful! We are to love everyone, including our enemies. Treating someone as a “Gentile” means recognizing that they are on the “outside” and to work with them to bring them “in”.

Remember, Matthew was also a tax collector until he chose to abandon everything and follow Christ.
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The Christian life is a process of growing in knowlege and life (how we live as Christians).
Yes, this is consistent with Apostolic Teaching.
Nobody reaches the fullness of the truth in this life because God’s ways are not our ways.
This is a false statement for two reasons.

Jesus IS the fullness of Truth, and He entrusted everything to His Apostles, who then entrusted it to the Church. Now, I will agree that it (the deposit of faith) is certainly not the sum total of the “fullness of Truth”, but it is the sum todal of God’s public revelation of Himself to us - all that He wants us to know in this Age. Of course I also agree that God’s ways are not our ways, but that is not relevant here. He Himself is the Head of the Church, and the HS is the Soul of the Church. He promised to guide the Church into all Truth, and He has.

I think that Protestants must, by definition, reject this Apostolic principle (that we have the mind of Christ) or else they would have to accept the Sacred Tradition, which is that Mind alive and well in the Church.
God’s foolishness is superior to man’s wisdom. Who knows, maybe some of the orthodox Christians will grow and see things quite differently later in life, transforming into a Cafeteria Catholic to the praise and glory of God?
Such is my fervent prayer. I used to BE a Tweety, and I returned to the Shepherd of my soul. I no longer protest and deny that which He has revealed to the Apostles, and preserved in the Church. I can tell you this, though, I got just as upset and hurt as she does when people used to tell me I was a relativist. 😊
Happy Reformation Day brother! 🙂
It is painful to watch you rejoice over separation and division in the Body.

Bill Pick is correct, SS is not taught in the Bible. I notice you chose not to respond to that! 😉

He is also correct that the opposite is taught in Scripture. I notice you also have stringently avoided the question put to you repeatedly, “What does Christ command us to do when we have a disagreement that cannot be settled among ourselves”?

The answer to His commandment is one of the main scriptural testimonies that SS is a false, extrabiblical doctrine.

It is also the answer to the question you put forth in the OP. The reason Catholics don’t read the Bible like our separated brethren is because Christ taught us to read it differently.
 
Originally Posted by 2nd Adam
Nobody reaches the fullness of the truth in this life because God’s ways are not our ways.
This is a false statement for two reasons.

Jesus IS the fullness of Truth, and He entrusted everything to His Apostles, who then entrusted it to the Church. Now, I will agree that it (the deposit of faith) is certainly not the sum total of the “fullness of Truth”, but it is the sum todal of God’s public revelation of Himself to us - all that He wants us to know in this Age. Of course I also agree that God’s ways are not our ways, but that is not relevant here. He Himself is the Head of the Church, and the HS is the Soul of the Church. He promised to guide the Church into all Truth, and He has.
I am talking about our personal transformation from sinner to saint. We are all sinners in process. I’m saying nobody is fully transfomed on this side of glory. The Catholic Church IMO is incomplete just like the Protestant Churches too. I just posted a link to the Catholic Church and Hitler because a Catholic was trying to tie Luther’s teaching with Hitler.

Paul’s Ministry to the Church

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me. Col 1

Reference to the Hitler comment:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=392722&page=3
 
I for one am very thankful for the time I spent in Bible study. Taught me a lot and especially the Book of John taught me how much Jesus loved me. I will always treasuse my time that I still do study the Bible.
Not critizing anyone, but when I came back to the Catholic Church was amazed at the fact that at least 70% of the people never open their Bibles. My husband for one. He said that their Bible sat on a table but was never opened. Glad that now he studies.🙂
 
I for one am very thankful for the time I spent in Bible study. Taught me a lot and especially the Book of John taught me how much Jesus loved me. I will always treasuse my time that I still do study the Bible.
Not critizing anyone, but when I came back to the Catholic Church was amazed at the fact that at least 70% of the people never open their Bibles. My husband for one. He said that their Bible sat on a table but was never opened. Glad that now he studies.🙂
Thanks for sharing. Here’s the question that is really out there. Since I believe that Catholics and Protestants are in the same family, please read this comment within that truth.

If a Christian (Protestant or Catholic) reads and studies the Holy Bible with greater frequency and greater intensity, … will this lead this Christian to live out his or her life as a Protestant Christian or a Catholic Christian? My answer would be a Protestant. However, if a Christian reads the Holy Bible together with the Catholic Catechism, that person would be Catholic. I sense that Catholic Christians have fear to read the Bible for themselves without the aid of Tradition, because reading the Scriptures apart from the Catechism will lead you down the Protestant road,
 
Thanks for sharing. Here’s the queston that is really out there. Since I believe that Catholics and Protestants are in the same family, please read this comment within that truth.

If a Christian (Protestant or Catholic) reads and studies the Holy Bible with greater frequency and greater intensity, … will this lead this Christian to live out their lives as a Protestant Christian or a Catholic Christian?
Can only speak for myself. It has made me closer to Jesus . It has made me be a better Christian. As far as to what one would be? I loved geing a Protestant Christian and love being a Catholic Christian, in other words I am happy in the Lord so what the name on the door says makes no difference to me. Maybe as I have been accused of being a Caferteia Catholic is true. I really am not concerned with names, only Christ and His love for me! I just don’t get hung up on a lot of the t’s.
God Bless you Adam.
 
Can only speak for myself. It has made me closer to Jesus . It has made me be a better Christian. As far as to what one would be? I loved geing a Protestant Christian and love being a Catholic Christian, in other words I am happy in the Lord so what the name on the door says makes no difference to me. Maybe as I have been accused of being a Caferteia Catholic is true. I really am not concerned with names, only Christ and His love for me! I just don’t get hung up on a lot of the t’s.
God Bless you Adam.
Thanks for sharing what really matters… which is Christ!
 
Oh I try and live my life as I know that Christ would have me to do. Gosh I am far from perfect a long ways off. I learn more everyday. So as the old saying goes be patient with me God Ain’t finished with me yet. And I am very thankful He isn’t finished with me.
I will say once again that I love all people and honor their religions and would never try to change someones belief. That is up to the Holy Spirit. 🙂
 
catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0402fea3.asp
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Catholics neeed to read their Bibles!**

The Bible-reading habits of Catholics lag far behind those of Evangelical Protestants. For their part, Evangelicals are usually ignorant of Church history, at least those nearly fifteen centuries before Martin Luther came along. It’s a sad fact of human nature that people tend to pit things against each other that don’t need to be opposed logically (or biblically). It should be both/and, not either/or. Catholics ought to do more Bible reading, and Evangelicals ought to read more Church history. We can learn from each other…

Protestants often find it difficult to reconcile Catholics’ lack of Bible reading with our claims to possess the fullness of Christian truth. Any viewpoint that is self-confident and healthy needs to engage criticism openly and honestly, no matter what the forum is. Protestants do that all the time. They write whole books about problems in their ranks. It is a sign of health and vigor…

For non-Catholics to respect us, they have to see us criticizing ourselves and not closing ranks and pretending that we are above all the errors with which everyone else struggles. This truth is obvious, and outsiders see it already, so we have to deal with it frankly. I’m not advocating a neglect of anything else in the Catholic spiritual or liturgical life. I’m maintaining only that too many Catholics neglect or try to minimize or de-emphasize the Bible…

If a Catholic truly does know Scripture, he also needs to demonstrate that in conversation: “Walk the walk,” don’t just “talk the talk.” The more we show that Bible and Catholicism are not contradictory terms, the more we appeal to Protestants with the truth of our overall message. A Catholic who is properly prepared can easily go head-to-head with a Protestant exegete…

Dave Armstrong, webmaster of Biblical Evidence for Catholicism (www.biblicalcatholic.com), is the author of A Biblical Defense of Catholicism (Sophia Institute Press, 2003). He writes from Detroit, Michigan, where he lives with his wife, Judy, and their four children.

I have personally found that the Catholics that I have had the privilege to discuss Christianity with in general… handle Scripture very weak and anemic. Scripture interprets Scripture, or we need to consider all of Scripture before we come to a conclusion on a particular doctrine. You can’t debate something and just say the Catholic Chruch believes this or that; therefore it is true.

Here is your chance to sharpen your iron with a sola scritpura Christian Brother. However, we need to discuss a doctrine within all that is written in the Scriptures about a particular topic. We cannot be cafeteria Christians, ignoring parts of what is written to fit a preconceived idea, and expect to find the truth. We also cannot debate biblical doctrine by stating our personal views and opinions apart from Scripture proof. If you believe something, support it with Scripture in its proper context within clear biblical doctrine. I agree with this article from Catholic Answers in the sense of the lack of biblical knowledge of most Catholics that you meet. Do you want to sharpen your skills in the Scirptures? Of course, we need to debate the more essential issues like the gospel. But we can also discuss issues of Calvinisim if you’d like… if you stay within the Scriptures.
As a convert to Catholicism from the Southern Baptist denomiation, I can honestly say that I have read and studied more scripture and church history since my conversion of two years than I did in the last 30 years as a member of the SB church. That’s just my experience. Memorizing scripture is not the same as understanding it. I therefore posit that this is what many fundamentalist Protestants consider “studying scripture” to be.
 
Oh I try and live my life as I know that Christ would have me to do. Gosh I am far from perfect a long ways off. I learn more everyday. So as the old saying goes be patient with me God Ain’t finished with me yet. And I am very thankful He isn’t finished with me.
I will say once again that I love all people and honor their religions and would never try to change someones belief. That is up to the Holy Spirit. 🙂
Hello Tweety, I know you are sincere in your love for our Lord, I believe you. and you are right, we all fall short of the Glory of God, we pray for the grace to persevere to the end of this life, we all get off track at times.As Catholics we must continue to be sure we are teaching our separated brothers what Jesus gave his twelve Apostoles to hand on down to us all. It is not right for us to confirm error in our separated brothers. It is not being unloving or hateful to correct error. As a Catholic you teach the whole truth. Those doctrines you know our Protestant friends do not accept as truth and which they deny,should be pointed out and the truth taught. you should not feel teaching the truth to someone will hurt their feelings or would be someway unloving.God bless us all Tweety and lead us all into all truth.:)Carlan
 
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I am talking about our personal transformation from sinner to saint.  We are all sinners in process.  I'm saying nobody is fully transfomed on this side of glory. The Catholic Church IMO is incomplete just like the Protestant Churches too.
Ok, right, yes, I agree with you. However, though our personal transformation has not yet entered the fullness of Truth, it does exist in the Teaching. That is why Catholics make a distinction between the infallible and divine elements of the Church, and the fallible persons attached to her. So, in response to your last line here, I would say of course, Catholics are in process, as are all the children of God being sanctified, but that the Church herself is already pure and complete - the glorfied saints who have preceeded us in faith are already perfected. Just as Christ has both Divine and Human nature, the Church, His Body, also does. The Divine aspects are perfect and complete. The human aspects have a ways to go. 😉
I just posted a link to the Catholic Church and Hitler because a Catholic was trying to tie Luther’s teaching with Hitler.
Hitler did draw a lot of his anti-semitism from Luther’s writings. Of course, the anti-semitic mindset of Luther’s time was fomenting in Germany, just waiting for a Hitler to touch a flame to it. One of the reasons I react so strongly when you try to state that God “raised up Luther do do His will” are his polemics against the Jews, the peasants, and anyone else that provoked his ire.
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**Paul's Ministry to the Church**
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God that was given to me for you, to make the word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints. To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we proclaim, warning everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone mature in Christ. For this I toil, struggling with all his energy that he powerfully works within me. Col 1
It is interesting you should post this passage in the context of Luther, as it is one of the strongest scriptural references to the doctrine of indulgences. 😃

Not sure where this leaves us with the thread topic, tho…:confused:
 
I for one am very thankful for the time I spent in Bible study. Taught me a lot and especially the Book of John taught me how much Jesus loved me. I will always treasuse my time that I still do study the Bible.
Not critizing anyone, but when I came back to the Catholic Church was amazed at the fact that at least 70% of the people never open their Bibles. My husband for one. He said that their Bible sat on a table but was never opened. Glad that now he studies.🙂
This is a sad truth, Tweety, and one of the greatest gifts that our separated brethren such as you and 2nd bring to Catholics. As St. Jerome said, “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ”. The more the believer reads, meditates, and prays scripture, the more one will draw closer to the Lord.

It was one of the main reasons I left the Church as a youth. I found other young people not afraid to carry and read their bibles. I could see in them a light and fervency I wanted for myself. I learned to devour the Word first from Baptists, then later a plethora of Evangelicals and Pentecostals. I have no regrets about that either. There were no bible studies available in Catholic parishes at the time, and catechism classes never cracked one. :eek:

I am sure that your passion for scripture is a great gift to your parish, and I hope that those who participate will become “infected” with your fervent love of Scripture. 👍
 
Thanks for sharing. Here’s the question that is really out there. Since I believe that Catholics and Protestants are in the same family, please read this comment within that truth.

If a Christian (Protestant or Catholic) reads and studies the Holy Bible with greater frequency and greater intensity, … will this lead this Christian to live out his or her life as a Protestant Christian or a Catholic Christian? My answer would be a Protestant.

However, if a Christian reads the Holy Bible together with the Catholic Catechism, that person would be Catholic. I sense that Catholic Christians have fear to read the Bible for themselves without the aid of Tradition, because reading the Scriptures apart from the Catechism will lead you down the Protestant road,
However, if a Christian reads the Holy Bible together with the Catholic Catechism, that person would be Catholic. I sense that Catholic Christians have fear to read the Bible for themselves without the aid of Tradition, because reading the Scriptures apart from the Catechism will lead you down the Protestant road,

I agree with you wholeheartedly here. I think that reading Scripture apart from the Sacred Tradition that produced it will, by definition, result in Protesting. Though I don’t think it is fear, but wisdom. Since Tradition is the lens through which we read, reading without this lens will result in exactly what has occurred, that there are as many interpretations as there are navels, and each one as unique as the next. It is very easy for persons to read and misinterpret, especially historical books when they don’t have a context. I was listening to God TV last night, and heard a Baptist preacher talking about where most of the people went to Church before Jesus was born. These types of modern interpolations into history are not uncommon, and that is why a study of any historical document, whether it is the History of the Egyptian Pharoes or Shakespeare needs to be undertaken within a context. The Context of the Bible is the Early Church, which was, of course, Catholic. 👍
 
Can only speak for myself. It has made me closer to Jesus . It has made me be a better Christian.
👍

Many of our separated brethren are better role models of what it means to be Christian than those who claim to have the “Fullness”.
As far as to what one would be? I loved geing a Protestant Christian and love being a Catholic Christian, in other words I am happy in the Lord so what the name on the door says makes no difference to me.
Well, let’s be honest. You never really did live as a Catholic Christian. you did not embrace the Catholic doctrine before you left, and did not embrace it after returning. 🤷

It may not matter to you what “name is on the door” but it does matter to those of us that take the Catholic faith seriously. For us, it is all or nothing, so having someone parading around masquerading in a faith they do not espouse is insulting.
Maybe as I have been accused of being a Caferteia Catholic is true. I really am not concerned with names, only Christ and His love for me! I just don’t get hung up on a lot of the t’s.
Indeed, based upon your posts, the shoe definitely fits.

It appears that you do not distinguish between Sacred Tradition, which is the immuntable Word of God in the Church, and human customs (the small “t”). I am not sure “hung up” is the right response to either of them, but Catholics are charged to maintain the Sacred Traditions, and not the human customs. If you refuse to maintain them, it is disingenuous to call yourself a Catholic. Though it may not matter to you, it sure does matter to your readers.
 
Thanks for sharing. Here’s the question that is really out there. Since I believe that Catholics and Protestants are in the same family, please read this comment within that truth.

If a Christian (Protestant or Catholic) reads and studies the Holy Bible with greater frequency and greater intensity, … will this lead this Christian to live out his or her life as a Protestant Christian or a Catholic Christian? My answer would be a Protestant. However, if a Christian reads the Holy Bible together with the Catholic Catechism, that person would be Catholic. I sense that Catholic Christians have fear to read the Bible for themselves without the aid of Tradition, because reading the Scriptures apart from the Catechism will lead you down the Protestant road,
Okay, so they start down the Protestant road. Then they come to the fork in the road heading off in thousands of different directions. Where does the Bible lead them then?
 
Okay, so they start down the Protestant road. Then they come to the fork in the road heading off in thousands of different directions. Where does the Bible lead them then?
Indeed.

It takes them to over 40,000 different denominations.

It takes them to over 40,000 different interpretations of the various Scripture verses which discuss:
  • What is original sin and its effects on humanity
  • Baptism
  • Rapture
  • Tongues (some believe others are not saved if they don’t speak in tongues)
  • Divorce
  • Abortion
  • Homosexuality
  • When to celebrate the Lord’s Day
  • Once saved, always saved
  • Music or no music (Singing or no singing)
  • Women pastors, no women pastors
  • Hell, or no hell
  • The Eucharist (Communion)
  • Sola scriptura/private interpretation
  • Ordination
  • Trinity vs. Unitarianism
  • Death/Soul Sleep
  • Church leadership, or no leadership
  • Head coverings or no head coverings
  • Health and wealth gospel
  • Drinking allowed, drinking not allowed)
  • Attend weekly services, don’t have to go to Church
  • Judge others, don’t judge others
  • What’s a sin, what is not a sin
  • Charity or no charity (help one another or let them help
  • themselves)
  • Is God‘s Holy Name Jehovah
  • Predestination
(list originally compiled by ProdigalSon)
 
As a convert to Catholicism from the Southern Baptist denomiation, I can honestly say that I have read and studied more scripture and church history since my conversion of two years than I did in the last 30 years as a member of the SB church. That’s just my experience. Memorizing scripture is not the same as understanding it. I therefore posit that this is what many fundamentalist Protestants consider “studying scripture” to be.
I completey agree with you that memorizing scripture is the not the same as understanding it. Our systematic theologies can tell much of what we understand or do not understand. The Bible is a closed book for those without the Spirit.
 
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