"Catholics" on Birth Control

[1234]

I am recently talking to this women who is on BC, claims to be catholic, and says everything is ok with it. She says that her priest and even the bishop has told her that it is simply ok and that she is fine and can continue to take communion. She is one of these feminist types and she absolutely won’t listen to anything I have told her.

I told her what she is doing is a sin. And I have doubts that a priest actually told her specifically it was ok. The priest probably was avoiding the issue or wanted to conclude on a neutral note, and thus she thought he was justifying her. What can I do to help this woman? She is taking communion in mortal sin everytime and it seems she thinks everything is ok.

Why did she confide details of her sex life to you?

Why do you assume that she was lying about the priest and bishop?

Why don’t you ask the priest AND bishop about their views?

If she honestly thinks everything is ‘OK’, then she’s not in mortal sin at communion.

If you define a “feminist”–a word I seldom see these days outside of this forum–as one who wants control over her ability to become pregnant, then half of the POPULATION of this planet are “feminists”.

 

[1234]

What health reasons is the pill really needed for? I haven"t heard of a real need yet that can’t be treated more effectively with other treatment.

Are you an MD?

Have you completed a residency in OB-GYN?

Are you boarded in OB-GYN and a member of ACOG?

(American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology)

Let’s hear your credentials for the above statement.

 

[1234]

no, shes married, and takes it because she dosen’t want kids. She even said her bishop said it was ok. Im having a hard time believing her. I also found she is pro-choice and is feminist.

I don’t understand how these people can blantantly go against church teaching and yet claim to be ok when taking communion. Are they really just that ignorant? or is it bad denial and wanting justification of sin

Ask her bishop.

 

[1234]

How many people listen to him?

 

[1234]

Well, if the Bishop says it is ok, then isn’t it ok in that diocese? Ok or not, BC has become a non-issue. I know you all hate to acknowledge that, but it is true. The Catholics Church just isn’t going to give glory to God by not having sex or by not masturbating or by not eating meat on Friday, or going to Church with your head covered.

You all need to get away from all the things it is not supposed to do and focus on doing what God wants. I’d be very surprised if God couldn’t think of something His Church needs to do now that it is not doing. For starters, how about teaching young people, that have a very bad example from their drug addict parent, how to find happiness in a marriage? Ever go to a priest, or deacon for help? You know they are not professionally trained for that. Wouldn’t it be nice to know you are going to someone that is a good Catholic and helping you and you are actually getting good, professional help?

How about understanding the reason why people feel they need to be homosexual. If it is based on something that isn’t right how about coming up with a way to fix it? Does anybody know how much money anybody has spent on studies of why people are straight or gay?

I just picked homosexuality out of the blue, anything would work. How much energy does the Church spend on understanding things and coming up with really good programs to help people?

Hear, hear, Larry!

AND–what a RADICAL idea!

Organizing and running programs that actually help people!

–you’ll be interested to know that Protestants and Jews and UU’s and Quakers–and even atheists–

actually do this!

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Hear, hear, Larry!

AND–what a RADICAL idea!

Organizing and running programs that actually help people!

–you’ll be interested to know that Protestants and Jews and UU’s and Quakers–and even atheists–

actually do this!

Yeah, it’s sad that the Catholic Church has so very few programs that help anybody, and the one’s they do have you have to prove you’re Catholic and not on birth control and not having premarital sex and vote republican before they’ll give you any assistance

I wish the Catholic Church had some Charities or Relief Services, or maybe a Society (maybe named for a Saint who helped the poor, like Vincent De Paul) to help people of all faiths. Maybe someday

(sorry for the sarcasm, but posts like that just show blatant ignorance of the Catholic Church).

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[PennitentMan]

Yeah, it’s sad that the Catholic Church has so very few programs that help anybody, and the one’s they do have you have to prove you’re Catholic and not on birth control and not having premarital sex and vote republican before they’ll give you any assistance
.
.
.
(sorry for the sarcasm, but posts like that just show blatant ignorance of the Catholic Church).

In Christ,

Ellen

Excuse me, but I have been trying more than a month to get some sort of family support out ouf our church and diocese.

The parish says go to the Diocese. They put me in contact with the family centre who says that they can’t help me.
They only do councilling. I have to find help from volunteers, maybe at my Parish? Nice little circle.

I honestly over this last little while have had people trying to help me…and they were:
Lutherans
Community Church goers
Presbyterians
Later Day Saints.

Nothing from Catholic sources, just circles.

Now who can roll their eyes?

Hmf

 

[hasikelee]

Excuse me, but I have been trying more than a month to get some sort of family support out ouf our church and diocese.

The parish says go to the Diocese. They put me in contact with the family centre who says that they can’t help me.
They only do councilling. I have to find help from volunteers, maybe at my Parish? Nice little circle.

I honestly over this last little while have had people trying to help me…and they were:
Lutherans
Community Church goers
Presbyterians
Later Day Saints.

Nothing from Catholic sources, just circles.

Now who can roll their eyes?

Hmf

If it’s not too personal, what is the area of concern? Is it that the Diocese does not have a professional for your particular issue? Are you in a smaller diocese?

 

[newbetx]

Excuse me, but I have been trying more than a month to get some sort of family support out ouf our church and diocese.

The parish says go to the Diocese. They put me in contact with the family centre who says that they can’t help me.
They only do councilling. I have to find help from volunteers, maybe at my Parish? Nice little circle.

I honestly over this last little while have had people trying to help me…and they were:
Lutherans
Community Church goers
Presbyterians
Later Day Saints.

Nothing from Catholic sources, just circles.

Now who can roll their eyes?

Hmf

Sorry about that. Did you try SVDP? I mean it. I’m really sorry. Near as I can tell, a parish or diocese being well organized is not a Catholic requirement.

If I knew more, I’d try to help. PM me if too personal to post.

 

[PetersKeys]

Hear, hear, Larry!

AND–what a RADICAL idea!

Organizing and running programs that actually help people!

–you’ll be interested to know that Protestants and Jews and UU’s and Quakers–and even atheists–

actually do this!

Are you a troll? If you have a problem with this then why are you on a Catholic Forum? There is a big difference between helping people and telling them its ok to continue sinning. The reason why many Catholix view Anglicans that way is because they have already broken their church with ordination of homosexuals and the first church to accept ABC, which is condemned in the OT and the Early Church Fathers. Anyone who actually follows Christ would see this as a red light. Secondly a person would have to be almost braindead to not know the churches teaching on ABC. Even the most radical lefty would know what the church teaches on this. So you can’t put the person’s culpability out of ignorance.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Excuse me, but I have been trying more than a month to get some sort of family support out ouf our church and diocese.

The parish says go to the Diocese. They put me in contact with the family centre who says that they can’t help me.
They only do councilling. I have to find help from volunteers, maybe at my Parish? Nice little circle.

I honestly over this last little while have had people trying to help me…and they were:
Lutherans
Community Church goers
Presbyterians
Later Day Saints.

Nothing from Catholic sources, just circles.

Now who can roll their eyes?

Hmf

Have you tried St. Vincent De Paul? Many parishes in the St. Louis Archdiocese (and I can’t imagine other diocese would be that different) has a chapter, and they have funds to help people who need rent, utilitities and gas money, as well as food pantries. Then there’s Catholic Charities. These are both on the web. Have you tried these organizations, or are you just calling your parish and diocese chancery office? Like Newb. asked, what kind of help do you need, exactly? Our Vincent De Paul societies and local Catholic Charities offices, plus an organization called St. Patrick’s Center (don’t know if other cities have that, or if it’s just here in St. Louis) provide real material help (food, housing, utilities, gas, job training, substance abuse and mental health treatment) to people of all faiths (or no faith). Not to mention all the charitable works that various Religious orders (like the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in the Bronx, they have a homeless shelter and soup kitchen, and Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity, whose work is legendary). It just boggles my mind when people accuse the Church of “not doing anything” to help people. Why does it have to be an either/or? Like you can’t have strong, strict, moral rules (for your own members) unless you neglect social justice? Or if you work for social justice, that means conforming people in and celebrating sin? That’s not the case at all: It’s both/and. We’re called to do minster to the physical and spiritual needs of the world.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[PetersKeys]

Yea my Church has the Vincent De Paul for the homeless and for food. I am actually filling up a box of food to give to the fund pretty soon. The St. Vincent De Paul is a really big organization that helps thousands of homeless people and people in bad positions. I believe they provide housing and job assistance too

 

[newbetx]

Yea my Church has the Vincent De Paul for the homeless and for food. I am actually filling up a box of food to give to the fund pretty soon. The St. Vincent De Paul is a really big organization that helps thousands of homeless people and people in bad positions. I believe they provide housing and job assistance too

My wife and I worked in this group BK… It’s wonderful to meet a person you helped years down the road and they’ve become self sufficient! But this isn’t on topic. I’m sorry.

 

[1234]

Are you a troll? If you have a problem with this then why are you on a Catholic Forum? There is a big difference between helping people and telling them its ok to continue sinning. The reason why many Catholix view Anglicans that way is because they have already broken their church with ordination of homosexuals and the first church to accept ABC, which is condemned in the OT and the Early Church Fathers. Anyone who actually follows Christ would see this as a red light. Secondly a person would have to be almost braindead to not know the churches teaching on ABC. Even the most radical lefty would know what the church teaches on this. So you can’t put the person’s culpability out of ignorance.

This is the context for my remarks: (emphasis mine)
I just picked homosexuality out of the blue, anything would work. How much energy does the Church spend on understanding things and coming up with really good programs to help people?

The church seems a) overwhelmed and able to offer very little to people in need (see the above posts) and b) SOME of its members appear obsessed with pushing everything the church does not allow and overlooking how it might actually help people. In the meantime, the non-Roman churches are stepping in–bigtime. I met a woman, a hispanic cradle Catholic who now attends a LARGE non-denominational church after they helped her when her husband of 46 years divorced her and her mother died. This woman stated that her RC church offered no help or support.This church offers trained counselors and support groups for every imaginable need, plus singles’ groups for all age levels, children’s groups, choirs, you name it. 4000-5000 FAMILIES in this church. Lots of them probably former Catholics.

 

[newbetx]

This is the context for my remarks: (emphasis mine)
I just picked homosexuality out of the blue, anything would work. How much energy does the Church spend on understanding things and coming up with really good programs to help people?

The church seems a) overwhelmed and able to offer very little to people in need (see the above posts) and b) SOME of its members appear obsessed with pushing everything the church does not allow and overlooking how it might actually help people. In the meantime, the non-Roman churches are stepping in–bigtime. I met a woman, a hispanic cradle Catholic who now attends a LARGE non-denominational church after they helped her when her husband of 46 years divorced her and her mother died. This woman stated that her RC church offered no help or support.This church offers trained counselors and support groups for every imaginable need, plus singles’ groups for all age levels, children’s groups, choirs, you name it. 4000-5000 FAMILIES in this church. Lots of them probably former Catholics.

So, are you saying, the Church is abandoning those in need and instead are oppressing the current members with unrealistic expectations? And they are leaving the Roman Catholic Church in droves to your church because your church is more charitable and “free thinking”?

 

[PetersKeys]

This is the context for my remarks: (emphasis mine)
I just picked homosexuality out of the blue, anything would work. How much energy does the Church spend on understanding things and coming up with really good programs to help people?

The church seems a) overwhelmed and able to offer very little to people in need (see the above posts) and b) SOME of its members appear obsessed with pushing everything the church does not allow and overlooking how it might actually help people. In the meantime, the non-Roman churches are stepping in–bigtime. I met a woman, a hispanic cradle Catholic who now attends a LARGE non-denominational church after they helped her when her husband of 46 years divorced her and her mother died. This woman stated that her RC church offered no help or support.This church offers trained counselors and support groups for every imaginable need, plus singles’ groups for all age levels, children’s groups, choirs, you name it. 4000-5000 FAMILIES in this church. Lots of them probably former Catholics.

The Church has had over 2000 years to understand things, they have been through it all. On a statistics scale the Catholic Church has helped more than the other denominations. I find it funny how you base one persons story on a whole Church. In my area, it is the Catholic Church that are helping most of the homeless and jobless here with their large food shelfs and programs for the Poor. I sounds like you don’t know much about the church to make such accusations. Personally I think you are looking for a church that just justifys sins rather than actually helps people. The women who is complaining probably is going to a small parish that dosen’t have alot of resources to help, that could be said with any church that has a small parish.

Overlooking how it helps people? ABC dosen’t help people. Because it puts a person in a state of mortal sin when they start taking it. It also encourages promiscuity and out of wedlock relations. Any true christian would realize the problems it poses. And what people may think helps for themselves, it does the opposite for the state of their soul, which is the most important thing.

svdpusa.org/

 

[larry85704]

Some Catholic Churches have excellent programs for people in need. There are programs for the needy, the sick and of course, those interested in religion and God. What is very obvious, from this forum, is that the Church has no consistency from place to place, or time to time. In my part of the world, Arizona, the Church is what it is and I can only write about what I know.

But the Church is like a golfer who decides to play golf without golf balls. It really does not get it.

Having a standard is great, saying what is sin, and not sin, is great. Somebody needs to do it. We do live in a world where people just do not care. Their attitude is that what ever I do is ok and everybody else must accommodate me. In the specific case of sex the Church is mostly right. You should have kids, you should be monogamous, you should mate for life, you should not be promiscuous. But, you do not go to hell if you do not mate for life, if you do not have kids, if you are promiscuous or if you do not follow the teachings of the Church concerning sex.

St Augustine was an example of a person that did not accept the teachings of the Church concerning sex and I assume he did not go to hell.

I am reasonably sure some of the members of this forum that have excelled in breaking the rules are some of the ones that demand the strictest adherence to the teachings of the Church, now. You know, I tend not to believe people that say one thing and do, or have done, another.

I have been to Catholic Church services where the priest was right out of the dark ages, or something. He was consistently advocating stuff that was good, which was fine, but expecting people to use methods that would cause them to wind up in jail. You cannot tell people at Mass to beat your kids, your wife, or even your dog.

To preach that homosexuality is wrong serves no purpose, to say ABC is wrong serves no purpose. Even if they are wrong, it serves no purpose. It does make people leave.

 

[childofmary1143]

Some Catholic Churches have excellent programs for people in need. There are programs for the needy, the sick and of course, those interested in religion and God. What is very obvious, from this forum, is that the Church has no consistency from place to place, or time to time. In my part of the world, Arizona, the Church is what it is and I can only write about what I know.

But the Church is like a golfer who decides to play golf without golf balls. It really does not get it.

Having a standard is great, saying what is sin, and not sin, is great. Somebody needs to do it. We do live in a world where people just do not care. Their attitude is that what ever I do is ok and everybody else must accommodate me. In the specific case of sex the Church is mostly right. You should have kids, you should be monogamous, you should mate for life, you should not be promiscuous. But, you do not go to hell if you do not mate for life, if you do not have kids, if you are promiscuous or if you do not follow the teachings of the Church concerning sex.

St Augustine was an example of a person that did not accept the teachings of the Church concerning sex and I assume he did not go to hell.

I am reasonably sure some of the members of this forum that have excelled in breaking the rules are some of the ones that demand the strictest adherence to the teachings of the Church, now. You know, I tend not to believe people that say one thing and do, or have done, another.

I have been to Catholic Church services where the priest was right out of the dark ages, or something. He was consistently advocating stuff that was good, which was fine, but expecting people to use methods that would cause them to wind up in jail. You cannot tell people at Mass to beat your kids, your wife, or even your dog.

To preach that homosexuality is wrong serves no purpose, to say ABC is wrong serves no purpose. Even if they are wrong, it serves no purpose. It does make people leave.

The most compassionate thing the Church or any person for that matter can do is to inform others of dangers in life. Homosexuality and ABC are two of those. Who knows more about these issues you or God?

I would like to know what you mean when you say St Augustine was an example of a person that did not accept the teachings of the Church concerning sex?

 

[Scottgun]

Some Catholic Churches have excellent programs for people in need. There are programs for the needy, the sick and of course, those interested in religion and God. What is very obvious, from this forum, is that the Church has no consistency from place to place, or time to time. In my part of the world, Arizona, the Church is what it is and I can only write about what I know.

Depends on what you mean by consistency.

But the Church is like a golfer who decides to play golf without golf balls. It really does not get it.

As we look at the support for this curious assertion, we will see that this is gratuitous.

Having a standard is great, saying what is sin, and not sin, is great. Somebody needs to do it. We do live in a world where people just do not care. Their attitude is that what ever I do is ok and everybody else must accommodate me. In the specific case of sex the Church is mostly right.

The problem with saying the Church is right is that there is no end to where the Chruch is wrong. If the Church is only mostly right in matters of faith and morals, we might as well chuck the whole thing and form our Church with the Magisterium of ME.

You should have kids, you should be monogamous, you should mate for life, you should not be promiscuous.

Agreed. But I would point out they are more than mere suggestions.

But, you do not go to hell if you do not mate for life, if you do not have kids, if you are promiscuous or if you do not follow the teachings of the Church concerning sex.

That would depend on your subjective culpability, but it is certainly possible to go to Hell for the above. Of course there is a Hell, but under people delude by a “mostly right” Church attitude, who knows? It’s a doctrinal roulette wheel. Round and round she goes, where she stops nobody knows. (Except the magisterium of one)

St Augustine was an example of a person that did not accept the teachings of the Church concerning sex and I assume he did not go to hell.

Source for assertion please.

I am reasonably sure some of the members of this forum that have excelled in breaking the rules are some of the ones that demand the strictest adherence to the teachings of the Church, now. You know, I tend not to believe people that say one thing and do, or have done, another.

In other words, we are all sinners? Of course. No one is asserting otherwise. But that people struggle and often fail to live up the standards of Church teaching does not invalidate the standards in any way.

I have been to Catholic Church services where the priest was right out of the dark ages, or something. He was consistently advocating stuff that was good, which was fine, but expecting people to use methods that would cause them to wind up in jail. You cannot tell people at Mass to beat your kids, your wife, or even your dog.

Example that supports assertion please. Did the priest really tell people to beat others?

To preach that homosexuality is wrong serves no purpose,

Preaching the Truth serves a purpose

to say ABC is wrong serves no purpose.

Preaching the Truth serves a purpose

Even if they are wrong, it serves no purpose.

Etc.

It does make people leave.

It’s not the Church’s job to make sure people stay. It’s job is to sanctify, teach and regulate the faithful. Leaving the Church is easy. Downright wimpy considering it’s not that hard to live up to the teachings. But then again, “Concupiscience darkens the intellect”, or as Mark Shea says, “Sin makes ya stupid.”

 

[larry85704]

Back in my collage days, I remember my religious education teacher, a priest, tell us that Augustine had a mistress most of his life. He struggled much with sex. In the end he was baptized and received into the Church. He was actually baptized late in life. My teacher told us that he just wasn’t ready to give up the joys of his mistress for the Church. These facts are very easy to verify.

Look up St Augustine on the net. You you folks trust the Catholic Encyclopedia?